Leftie Students Are Completely Silent on the Bigotry of Islam

[icehorse]

I don't find the politicalization of this topic to be at all useful. I don't know what "the left" is (or what "the right" is for that matter). Considering having "double standards" is universally human regardless of political labels, why not frame the entire discussion differently? Why not instead point out that "while it is important to be critical of anti-Islamic sentiment given Islam is a diverse religious demographic, it is also important to not overlook human rights violations done by some members of Islamic traditions." Why politicize it at all? I don't see the point.

Because Islam is not just a religion. It is a totalitarian ideology that happens to have a religious facet. You cannot honestly discuss Islam without factoring in its political nature.

 

[icehorse]

How centralized is Islaam exactly?

The opinions seem to be all over the place.

On the one hand, it has a clear affinity for establishing strong central authorities, going back all the way to Muhammad himself, who was succeeded by many Caliphs and Imams with quite a lot of influence.

Somehow that does not stop claims that it has no central leadership. I don't know quite what to make of those.

FWIW, the OIC (organization of Islamic cooperation), is a group of 57 nations, 47 of which are Muslim majority. This group often acts together as a single unit in the UN.

 

[icehorse]

Oh, sure. No inherent contradictions in the holy texts or traditions of either, of course. Nope, it's ONLY Islam with problematic texts.

Is this the "two wrongs make it right" defense?

 

[Quintessence]

Because Islam is not just a religion. It is a totalitarian ideology that happens to have a religious facet. You cannot honestly discuss Islam without factoring in its political nature.

If you'd qualified this appropriately with words like "sometimes" and "some sects" I could take this seriously. As it's written, I just can't. I can't take seriously the factually inaccurate accusation that the Muslims attending my local Mosque are totalitarians.

 

[icehorse]

If you'd qualified this appropriately with words like "sometimes" and "some sects" I could take this seriously. As it's written, I just can't. I can't take seriously the factually inaccurate accusation that the Muslims attending my local Mosque are totalitarians.

Yes, yes, we all know that Muslims hold a wide variety of beliefs and interpretations of Islamic scripture. I was making a distinction between Muslims and the ideas of Islam. One useful fact though, is that at least 50% of the world's Muslims want Sharia to be the law of the land. That is a totalitarian desire.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes, yes, we all know that Muslims hold a wide variety of beliefs and interpretations of Islamic scripture. I was making a distinction between Muslims and the ideas of Islam. One useful fact though, is that at least 50% of the world's Muslims want Sharia to be the law of the land. That is a totalitarian desire.

Do you have a source for this fact?

Do you also have similar studies into the number of Christians and Christian organizations who wish to enshrine Biblical teachings into law?

 

[Quintessence]

Yes, yes, we all know that Muslims hold a wide variety of beliefs and interpretations of Islamic scripture. I was making a distinction between Muslims and the ideas of Islam. One useful fact though, is that at least 50% of the world's Muslims want Sharia to be the law of the land. That is a totalitarian desire.

Accuracy of your random statistic aside, I suppose I don't find those traditions Islam unique in that regard. Totalitarian desires seem fairly universal across national boundaries. The United States is notorious for forcing its ways of life onto other nations... a trend perpetuated by the West more generally especially during colonial times and still going on today. In a way I take some comfort in the fact that the same behaviors done now by one group are now cause for greater alarm, but I am saddened that the critics often fail to recognize they're guilty of precisely the same behaviors. Nobody can just leave each other alone, it seems. There's always some group in every ideology that wants to get up in everybody else's business. Humans being humans.

 

[Estro Felino]

If you'd qualified this appropriately with words like "sometimes" and "some sects" I could take this seriously. As it's written, I just can't. I can't take seriously the factually inaccurate accusation that the Muslims attending my local Mosque are totalitarians.

If you read the previous posts, I presented the example of my country. There are Islamic religious communities, (associations) that reject their subordination to the state.

I respect their choice...but recently the very same associations asked for the legalization of polygamy- so just put two and two together: they refuse a pact with the state in order to preserve some practices like polygamy

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Is this the "two wrongs make it right" defense?

No. It's the "don't criticise other people of stuff you yourself are guilty of" comment. As usual.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I respect their choice

No you don't. You've been using it as a justification to be anti-Islam for pages now.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Do you have a source for this fact?

Do you also have similar studies into the number of Christians and Christian organizations who wish to enshrine Biblical teachings into law?

I bet you a week's salary to the charity of your choice he has no credible source, nor an appropriate comparison with Christians.

 

[Altfish]

I suppose the thread title could just as easily been....

Rightie Students Are Completely Silent on the Bigotry of Christianity

 

[LuisDantas]

FWIW, the OIC (organization of Islamic cooperation), is a group of 57 nations, 47 of which are Muslim majority. This group often acts together as a single unit in the UN.

I for one am not aware of any serious challenge to their mandate to speak on behalf of Muslims. It has certainly never come up in RF's threads far as I can tell.

 

[David1967]

Go read it for yourself

OK, I will.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I for one am not aware of any serious challenge to their mandate to speak on behalf of Muslims. It has certainly never come up in RF's threads far as I can tell.

Bunch of posts you seem to have missed there, curiously.

 

[icehorse]

Accuracy of your random statistic aside, I suppose I don't find those traditions Islam unique in that regard. Totalitarian desires seem fairly universal across national boundaries. The United States is notorious for forcing its ways of life onto other nations... a trend perpetuated by the West more generally especially during colonial times and still going on today. In a way I take some comfort in the fact that the same behaviors done now by one group are now cause for greater alarm, but I am saddened that the critics often fail to recognize they're guilty of precisely the same behaviors. Nobody can just leave each other alone, it seems. There's always some group in every ideology that wants to get up in everybody else's business. Humans being humans.

and

Do you have a source for this fact?

Do you also have similar studies into the number of Christians and Christian organizations who wish to enshrine Biblical teachings into law?

and

@Armoured

I bet you a week's salary to the charity of your choice he has no credible source, nor an appropriate comparison with Christians.

I have made and defended this claim MANY times on this forum. And all three of you have probably participated in many similar debates on this forum. While I am going to assume that you are all debating in good faith, at some point this response starts to feel like an intentional distraction, sea-lioning if you will.

Here, for the Nth time, is one link to stats on what Muslims around the world believe. With a little googling you can find many more that largely support my claim:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

As for bringing Christians into this discussion, that's outside the scope of the OP. If you want to start a thread discussing that, I will happily weigh in.

 

[icehorse]

No. It's the "don't criticise other people of stuff you yourself are guilty of" comment. As usual.

As it says next to my member info, i am an anti-theist. Like most anti-theists, I'm also a secular humanist. We are the guys who do the most to defend true freedom of religion. So no, i'm not also guilty of this, as I don't adhere to any religious texts, thank you very much.

 

[LuisDantas]

Bunch of posts you seem to have missed there, curiously.

So I take it that you have found any?

Then surely you can post a link to some?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So I take it that you have found any?

Then surely you can post a link to some?

You're not making sense.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

As it says next to my member info, i am an anti-theist. Like most anti-theists, I'm also a secular humanist. We are the guys who do the most to defend true freedom of religion. So no, i'm not also guilty of this, as I don't adhere to any religious texts, thank you very much.

Given that my comment you jumped in on wasn't directed at you, I'm not sure what your point is?