Leftie Students Are Completely Silent on the Bigotry of Islam

[icehorse]

Only for Muslims who voluntarily want to use them. Find me a single verifiable example of a non Muslim being forced to abide by Sharia law in a nominally western country without the protection of that country's actual legal system, and I promise I will share your outrage. Until that time, the much pundit cited "sharia courts in Western countries" are of no more concern than rabbinical courts or Cannon law courts, or other voluntary uses of traditional law.

Islam has violence and misogyny baked into its core teachings. I would say that many of the Muslim women you see in the West are being strongly coerced by the males in their lives to live under many of the edicts of Sharia. For example, FGM is sadly common in Muslim communities all throughout the West. Would you agree that a female undergoing FGM is being forced to abide by Sharia? I certainly would call that force.

 

[Revoltingest]

If I'm understanding you, your direct experience is at a local level, correct? I'm glad to hear that things are working as they should in your neck of the woods. Of course that doesn't prove anything either way in other parts of the West. And as far as the government "allowing", as I said, I'm talking about under-the-radar Sharia courts.

As for "right-wing radio and tv", I'm a centrist. IMO, journalism has been besmirched from both the far right AND the far left. If your implication is that anyone who criticizes Islam is far right, then that's a form of identity politics on your part. I'm a centrist and I think Islam is a horrible set of ideas.

The problem here is that the left has flexible values, & will base criticism & tolerance more upon
their culture de jour. These days, it's fashionable to be tolerant towards Islam's less progressive
aspects, while being critical of various Christian sects, eg, Catholicism, Baptists, Pentecostals.

It's a lot like their politics. When Hillary was in favor of strong borders, this was uncontroversial.
When the opposition favors the same, they start sanctuary cities, & demand that ICE be abolished.

 

[Shad]

In Islam, shari'a only can be applied to a jurisdiction that is mainly Muslim. When we had some cities here in the States take stances against shari'a, it was an exercise in mind-numbing stupidity and bigotry.

Amusing how a classical liberal views of equality before the law without privilege nor discrimination is looked down upon.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Islam has violence and misogyny baked into its core teachings. I would say that many of the Muslim women you see in the West are being strongly coerced by the males in their lives to live under many of the edicts of Sharia. For example, FGM is sadly common in Muslim communities all throughout the West. Would you agree that a female undergoing FGM is being forced to abide by Sharia? I certainly would call that force.

FGM is indeed terrible. It has nothing to do with sharia, little enough to do with Islam at all, and isn't legal in any Western country that I know of.

I assume this attempt to change the subject is a tacit admission that no evidence of these sinister "under the radar Sharia courts" exists?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Amusing how a classical liberal views of equality before the law without privilege nor discrimination is looked down upon.

It's effectively church law, and only applicable to cases between consenting Muslims. Muslims would still be subject to state and federal laws.

 

[Shad]

FGM is indeed terrible. It has nothing to do with sharia, little enough to do with Islam at all, and isn't legal in any Western country that I know of.

Fed law covers 18 and younger. State law, about 25 states, covers all ages. Valid medical uses are legal such rare cases such as child birth complication due to physical issues.

 

[Revoltingest]

FGM is indeed terrible. It has nothing to do with sharia, little enough to do with Islam at all, and isn't legal in any Western country that I know of.

While FGM isn't required by the Koran, it has very much to do with Islam,
which is not only a set of various religions, but also religious based cultures.
Though illegal in Americastan, it happens, particularly in SE Michiganistan.
Guess which religion is behind it?

 

[Shad]

It's effectively church law, and only applicable to cases between consenting Muslims. Muslims would still be subject to state and federal laws.

I was talking about sharia being incorporated as part of law rather than sharia complying the existing structure as a personal contract.

 

[Estro Felino]

.

It's effectively church law, and only applicable to cases between consenting Muslims. Muslims would still be subject to state and federal laws.

Which cannot happen in countries with strict secularism...
recently during Vatileaks 2, the Italian judiciary underlined that the Canon Law has no juridical value in Italy and on Italian citizens, making any Canonic document null and void.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Fed law covers 18 and younger. State law, about 25 states, covers all ages. Valid medical uses are legal such rare cases such as child birth complication due to physical issues.

...huh?

 

[icehorse]

FGM is indeed terrible. It has nothing to do with sharia, little enough to do with Islam at all, and isn't legal in any Western country that I know of.

I assume this attempt to change the subject is a tacit admission that no evidence of these sinister "under the radar Sharia courts" exists?

People far more knowledgable than you disagree with your standard apologist claim that FGM has nothing to do with Islam. I would advise you to listen to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

And I wasn't changing the subject at all, I was giving you one example. Again, I really don't think you are debating in good faith.

 

[Shad]

...huh?

I was providing details on FGM laws as "it is illegal" is not accurate. I forgot to add I was talking about US law.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

.


Which cannot happen in countries with strict secularism...
recently during Vatileaks 2, the Italian judiciary underlined that the Canon Law has no juridical value in Italy and on Italian citizens, making any Canonic document null and void.

And Sharia is the same. It has no judicial value in the eyes of the state. However if two people voluntarily agree to go before a sharia court and comply with its ruling, there's nothing stopping them. Just like with cannon courts, rabinical courts, and the myriad other forms of "traditional" law practiced in many Western countrys. None of it supersedes the law of the state. None of it applies to people who don't agree too take part in it. The boogeyman of Sharia law being enforced against unsuspecting non Muslims, invariably with much breathless talk of chopping off body parts, is pure nonsense, designed to whip up outrage among the xenophobic and otherwise uninformed.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

People far more knowledgable than you disagree with your standard apologist claim that FGM has nothing to do with Islam. I would advise you to listen to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

And I wasn't changing the subject at all, I was giving you one example. Again, I really don't think you are debating in good faith.

I know plenty about FGM thank you. It is a cultural practice, not a religious one. If you want to discuss FGM, fine, but we were discussing "under the radar sharia courts in western countries", and the implication that non-Muslims were being effected by them. None of that has anything to do with FGM.

You seem to accuse people of "not debating in good faith" whenever you find yourself on the wrong side of the facts.
I stand by my earlier comment. You find a single verifiable example of a non Muslim being forced to abide by Sharia law in a nominally western country without the protection of that country's actual legal system, and I promise I will share your outrage. What could be more good faith than that?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I was providing details on FGM laws as "it is illegal" is not accurate. I forgot to add I was talking about US law.

Where is it legal in the US, then?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I was talking about sharia being incorporated as part of law rather than sharia complying the existing structure as a personal contract.

I don't believe that is happening in any Western Country.

 

[Estro Felino]

And Sharia is the same. It has no judicial value in the eyes of the state.

Which can create ambiguous situations...like a man who got married with a woman in the City Hall, got married with other two in the mosque

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Which can create ambiguous situations...like a man who got married with a woman in the City Hall, got married with other two in the mosque

And in the eyes of the state, he'd just have the one wife. Nothing ambiguous at all. There's nothing illegal about people living with their legal spouse and two other people. It's only illegal to marry more than one person in a LEGAL marriage.

 

[icehorse]

I know plenty about FGM thank you. It is a cultural practice, not a religious one. If you want to discuss FGM, fine, but we were discussing "under the radar sharia courts in western countries", and the implication that non-Muslims were being effected by them. None of that has anything to do with FGM.

You seem to accuse people of "not debating in good faith" whenever you find yourself on the wrong side of the facts.
I stand by my earlier comment. You find a single verifiable example of a non Muslim being forced to abide by Sharia law in a nominally western country without the protection of that country's actual legal system, and I promise I will share your outrage. What could be more good faith than that?

Now you're shifting the goalposts. I might engage you in a different debate at a later time, but for today, sleuthing out your (it seems to me bad faith), twists and turns just isn't worth it.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Now you're shifting the goalposts. I might engage you in a different debate at a later time, but for today, sleuthing out your (it seems to me bad faith), twists and turns just isn't worth it.

Shifting the goal posts?? I quoted my earlier post which directly quoted you! The only goal post shifting is trom the person who started by complaining about secret sharia law courts then shifted to FGM when asked for examples.