Legalize Marijuana?

[Stellify]

Hey, I just thought of something now.

If marijuana were proven to be a cause of psychosis, mental illness or violence, would any of its advocates still want to use it for recreation?

I asked a similar question earlier. I had heard that some research claimed that smoking marijuana gave a man twice the chance of getting testicular cancer. I asked if this would affect anyone's smoking habits if it turned out to be true. It seemed like it would have very little impact on people's decision to smoke, judging by the responses.
But perhaps causing psychosis/neuroses and/or violence is a different story?

Haha.

What happens if they happen to make illegal narcotics anyway? Will Obama be upset and refuse to invite those people to his birthday party?

*snortchokegiggle*

Probably.
*facepalm*

 

[BucephalusBB]

*snortchokegiggle*

As I cannot fruball you anymore, I have to let you know that I actually pictured you doing this while reading...

 

[DarkSun]

As I cannot fruball you anymore, I have to let you know that I actually pictured you doing this while reading...

OMG, me too!

But I can't frubal you either.

Quick. Someone say something worth Fruballing, so that I can Frubal Stellify some more.

 

[emiliano]

Marijuana gives my brother anxiety attacks when he's coming down... He belted my youngest brother across the backside with a metal pole one afternoon, and mum kicked him out.

And I have a friend whose brother used marijuana frequently. She has some similar stories to tell.

Now, I understand that apparently this shouldn't be happening if marijuana allegedly makes people less violent. It's just that my point is, people don't know how they're going to react to the drug. Everyone has a different chemical make-up, and relatively few know when they might have a bad reaction to some drugs because of it. For this reason, even if it isn't the "norm" for people to react violently after marijuana use, it can still happen. And pretty darn often too, from what I've seen.

And whether marijuana use or prior issues are the cause for violent behaviour after marijuana use is irrelevant. Pot does impair your ability to make judgements, and that in itself could catalyse violence.

We all have had contact with marijuana user, and out of these experiences have taken different position on the issue of marijuana use legalization, this is a good site for information HOW DOES MARIJUANA AFFECT THE BRAIN? | Serendip's Exchange
My experiences have been very negative because of the type of work that I do, sadly I meet them at their worst, in the middle of a panic attack, paranoia or out of control and aggressive, we have a team called the green team or the aggression management team, there are 6 to 8 nurses that attend to a call for assistance, the psychotic patient must be persuaded to take an anti-psychotic medication, a negotiation take place, when that fails the supervisor, will signal the team that negotiation has fail and the person is subdue and injectable anti-psychotic are administered, this is the saddest of our duties and as soon as the patient gain control debriefing take place, most of the patient relate to us that they never thought that it could happen to them, they though that they could control it, but they got hook on it, and every time they increased the amount to get to that point of euphoria, till they find themselves in mental hospital, brought in by the police that is called by a love one, some learn the lesson other comeback again and again. I quitted cigarettes smoking twice , the fist time lasted 12 years and I have not smoked cigarettes for more than fifteen years this time around, quitting ain’t easy (I know it from personal experience) but is worth while attempting it, many times if necessary. Collecting government revenues from the trade of this substance, is immoral.

 

[Stellify]

As I cannot fruball you anymore, I have to let you know that I actually pictured you doing this while reading...

OMG, me too!

But I can't frubal you either.

Quick. Someone say something worth Fruballing, so that I can Frubal Stellify some more.

LOL! Oh wow...then THOSE comments made me start laughing, which sent me into a horrible coughing fit. But then I laughed harder because it was just ridiculous... I'm hopeless

I really DID do that when I read his comment, though Except it wasn't a full-blown snort...more like one of those "hmph", cynical-laden snorts
When I put things in *asterisks* it's usually because that's what my real-life reaction actually was :cover:



....you both owe me frubals. :149: I shan't let you forget!

 

[BucephalusBB]

. :149: I shan't let you forget!

Forget what exactly again..? :flirt:

Edit: I just discovered a perfect way to get back on topic. Forget to forget > Short memory loss...? huh?

 

[Stellify]

Forget what exactly again..? :flirt:

...The sexual favors you owe me




Oh, and the frubals.

 

[emiliano]

I'm pretty sure you misunderstood me.
I'm not saying that making marijuana legal would entail no extra cost.

Can you tell me if there would be a saving to tax payers in legalising marijuana? It has been suggested that, that is the case, read the Op “It seems the US would be better off regulating this marijuana trafficking. By legalizing marijuana, the US could tax the buyer (like cigarettes).

You said that the "cost" was being hidden from people. I was saying that I disagree. People know there will be a cost for encompassing the changes legalization would entail. They ALSO know that there is a huge cost RIGHT NOW to keep it illegal. Many people think that the cost of keeping it illegal is greater than what it would be to legalize it.

Please let the OP mover know, he think that your country will became very prosperous by entering into this lucrative enterprise, yes the OP pointed that out as well “Billions of US dollars (per year) are spent for marijuana. This money funds the drug cartels of Mexico and South America” Billions! What is stoping the good US people from getting into it?

Well, yes...We have laws just like anyone. Based off of the writings and beliefs of our founding fathers. Things such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Basic human rights, etc. As I said, it's not that people have a "right" to smoke marijuana specifically. The argument is that people have a "right" to decide for themselves what they do with their own bodies.

Direct democracy is impossible, we cannot all have our way and in reality you are limited by the right of other, the best we can achieve is the majority rules concept.

Is there any place where that logic doesn't apply (in the underlined, bold part of your quote)?
I mean...if the law doesn't say something is illegal....then it's legal, right?

Marijuana was not around in those days the plant had other uses rather than make you happy, making ropes was one, so how was this issue could be in their mind at the times of their deliberations? So in what is this right to do whatever one wishes with his body comes from? or it must be regulated in accordance to the majority’s will and that says that is illegal.

The laws that have been enacted so far have been things like banning cigarette smoking in public areas such as schools, hospitals, restaurants, bars, etc. etc.

And law have been enacted to prohibit the smoking or ingestion of marijuana, and that is the way it should be. It should remain as an illegal drug.

More laws like that are being discussed and passed all the time. They seem to be working fairly well at keeping second-hand smoke to a minimum in public areas.

And so are the laws that says that marijuana is an illegal drug

The point of drug screening is to keep people safe. Not only does it make it possible to get rid of people who do drugs in jobs where it is unacceptable, but it encourages employees to not do drugs in the first place.

But you cannot get rid of a person that is exercising his/her libertarian rights and pursuing happiness, you said that Americans don’t like to be told what to do, didn’t you?

It works as a preventative measure as well, you know. Doctors and pharmacists know that they will be closely monitored for drug use, and possibly lose their jobs if they fail a screening, so they don't do drugs in the first place.

Ah, you are discriminating against these people, so it OK for you to use and not for them.

It seems like you think I was suggesting drug screening if marijuana was legalized. What I was actually SAYING was that drug screening is already used now.

Ah, big brother tactic, see how it is alright to deny you legalization of pot? Do you know what is the cost involved in replacing an employee? Specially the highly trained ones.

So you wouldn't really have to add drug screening in your "cost calculation" for legalization....it's already in practice.

I suppose that by making the drug more readily available and cheaper and with the immense adverting knowledge of marketers we would have as many potheads as we have pissheads in no time, all that is requires is that we allow them to put a foot in the door and it will happened. We will be forever fixing loopholes in our legislations, no just say no to them, no to legalization.

 

[Stellify]

Can you tell me if there would be a saving to tax payers in legalising marijuana? It has been suggested that, that is the case, read the Op “It seems the US would be better off regulating this marijuana trafficking. By legalizing marijuana, the US could tax the buyer (like cigarettes).

If the taxes were put on the product itself, and not being raised to fund the "Drug War", which isn't working, then yes. Overall, non-smoking taxpayers would probably save money. Or, at the very least, the taxpayers' money would go to a better use.

Please let the OP mover know, he think that your country will became very prosperous by entering into this lucrative enterprise, yes the OP pointed that out as well “Billions of US dollars (per year) are spent for marijuana. This money funds the drug cartels of Mexico and South America” Billions! What is stoping the good US people from getting into it?

Yes, it would very likely be a lucrative enterprise.
I think if you understood, you'd realize that the billions are being spent and sent out of the country because we can't regulate marijuana right now because of its illegal status.
You pretty much proved my point with this quote, not yours, imo.

Marijuana was not around in those days the plant had other uses rather than make you happy, making ropes was one, so how was this issue could be in their mind at the times of their deliberations? So in what is this right to do whatever one wishes with his body comes from? or it must be regulated in accordance to the majority’s will and that says that is illegal.

In WHAT days? WHO'S deliberations? And what does it have to do with anything?

The right has to do with making "free will" as attainable as possible. I don't know how many other ways I can phrase this.

And law have been enacted to prohibit the smoking or ingestion of marijuana, and that is the way it should be. It should remain as an illegal drug.
And so are the laws that says that marijuana is an illegal drug

But the difference is that smoking is still allowed if one does it in private or designated areas. You can't really compare the two, imo.

But you cannot get rid of a person that is exercising his/her libertarian rights and pursuing happiness, you said that Americans don’t like to be told what to do, didn’t you?

Actually, I don't recall using those words. Can you find a quote of me saying that? I would rather like to see it.
On the other hand, if you're making things up, I'd appreciate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth, so to speak.

Ah, you are discriminating against these people, so it OK for you to use and not for them.

Did I say that? No. I don't believe I did. Once again, stop putting words in my mouth or refrain from conversation completely. You've been more than happy to ignore my posts before.

Ah, big brother tactic, see how it is alright to deny you legalization of pot? Do you know what is the cost involved in replacing an employee? Specially the highly trained ones.

Would you explain this quote? I'm not understanding you. Especially the first sentence.
There are always people looking for positions. And, as I said, the screening works as a preventative measure. A lot of the higher trained positions don't need to replace a lot of employees due to drug use because those employees know they will be subject to screenings.

I suppose that by making the drug more readily available and cheaper and with the immense adverting knowledge of marketers we would have as many potheads as we have pissheads in no time, all that is requires is that we allow them to put a foot in the door and it will happened. We will be forever fixing loopholes in our legislations, no just say no to them, no to legalization.

Did you read any of the earlier posts? Marijuana is already easily available. Because we can't regulate it, it's more readily available to children than cigarettes are! If it were legalized, then at least we could put an age limit on the stuff and have some way of reinforcing it that would be more effective than what we have now.

 

[emiliano]

If
Yes, it would very likely be a lucrative enterprise.
I think if you understood, you'd realize that the billions are being spent and sent out of the country because we can't regulate marijuana right now because of its illegal status.
You pretty much proved my point with this quote, not yours, imo.

The question remains, is it moral? is it cheaper? And again you are presenting the regulation cost as lower than prohibitions, the extra cost in introducing regulation onto a vice is very high and it needs to constantly be increased, how much is left of the alleged saving to tax payer? And if the use of marijuana is made legal, would it not be an increase in consumption? Smoking it introduces carcinogen substances and the health system will need a bigger budget, the price of the stuff will have to increased continually and we will be in same situation that cigarettes and alcohol got us in, these make me happy substances are forever having it taxes increased, thus creating the same social problems that the other two errors created, the US doesn’t necessarily need to send money abroad to fight this evil, they just have to spend more money educating their people.

 

[Stellify]

The question remains, is it moral? is it cheaper? And again you are presenting the regulation cost as lower than prohibitions, the extra cost in introducing regulation onto a vice is very high and it needs to constantly be increased, how much is left of the alleged saving to tax payer? And if the use of marijuana is made legal, would it not be an increase in consumption? Smoking it introduces carcinogen substances and the health system will need a bigger budget, the price of the stuff will have to increased continually and we will be in same situation that cigarettes and alcohol got us in, these make me happy substances are forever having it taxes increased, thus creating the same social problems that the other two errors created, the US doesn’t necessarily need to send money abroad to fight this evil, they just have to spend more money educating their people.

I'm not even going to get into the morality of it with you. I think you know as well as I do that we have different views on that.
As I said a few times, yes, I think it would be "cheaper". We already have a lot of the regulations that would be needed in place for other substances, so I don't think it would be so impossible to include marijuana.
The tax payers that would be bearing the cost would be the people choosing to smoke it, sell it, grow it, etc. And they would do so with the full knowledge that they would have to pay extra taxes for it. I see no problem with that, just as I see no problem with the taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.
I think that there would probably be an increase in consumption among the older marijuana-using demographic. But at the same time I think there would be a decrease in the much younger crowd. Also, I think that if the right regulations were put in place, the increase in usage wouldn't be a problem as far as behavior goes.
Well, right now, people (or their insurance) pay for their own health care...so..I guess that means that only the smokers would need a bigger budget, eh? Although if we get nationalized healthcare, then it might have more of an impact. Although somehow I think they would find a way to work around that.
What issues are you talking about that have arisen from tax increases? If anything, those increases have encouraged people to stop smoking cigarettes and such. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, would you clarify?
Do you know anything about the US "War on Drugs"? Because your last sentence makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[emiliano]

Here is another interesting article in the net., particularly this bit:
INVALID RESEARCH
No matter how renowned the investigator how well- known the institution where the research was performed, and no matter what the human system studied, whenever cannabinoids are present in cell membranes, any chemical or behavioral research which fails to reflect their reduction of cell energy is by scientific definition invalid. Careful review of every study where this energy loss has not been demonstrated reveals the investigator was ignorant of the most essential basic chemical properties of marijuana, or his study was fundamentally faulty in design, deficient in instrumentation or inappropriate in the choice of statistical analysis. As increasingly the case, whenever such scientific issues have become so vehemently "politicized" and financially rewarding, it reveals the fact that the study may have been intentionally biased and purposely distorted in its inception.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~apfdfy/Gate.html

 

[emiliano]

Stellify,
Good decision to leave morality out, because the legalization of marijuana has none of it, now let get on with the others, you wrote: “The tax payers that would be bearing the cost would be the people choosing to smoke it, sell it, grow it, etc. And they would do so with the full knowledge that they would have to pay extra taxes for it. I see no problem with that, just as I see no problem with the taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.”
Not so, from what I know of your present health care system employers pay for the health and dental insurance of the people that they employ is part of your earning, if people became unhealthy the premiums cost will rise, right?
I base this on what you said “I think that there would probably be an increase in consumption among the older marijuana-using demographic” so an increase in risk taking in the health of their employee=higher premiums, an increase in the cost of employing good/productive workers, the older demographic pot head would be the experienced one won’t it? The cost of replacing an experienced worker is higher than those coming for the younger mob, right?
You say: “Well, right now, people (or their insurance) pay for their own health care”. so. I guess that means that only the smokers would need a bigger budget, eh? No so your employer or your parent employer would have to fork out more money for their premiums, and unless marijuana makes them more productive the employer will go bankrupt. And a substance that does the opposite wont do it. The impact is the same, pot- head are burden to society, an ever increasing one.
You ask: What issues are you talking about that have arisen from tax increases? People that are hooked on drugs use more and more of it to get the same effect that they got at the start of their vice, they are unhealthy and burden those that employ them, it make no difference to a nationalized service either. How much of peoples incomes is spent on these make me feel happy drugs? Does it stay the same over the years? Ask an alcoholic or a chain smoker of cigarettes.

 

[Father Heathen]

Stellify,
Good decision to leave morality out, because the legalization of marijuana has none of it.

Rights and liberty has a lot to do with morality, actually. Prohibition is immoral.

 

[emiliano]

Rights and liberty has a lot to do with morality, actually. Prohibition is immoral.

You missing the potty, what this refers to is to the proposition of government getting into the lucrative enterprise of drug dealing, forming an association with those that would produced and push marijuana to people in exchange for money (taxes), money that it would be need it for the health systems to cope with the damage that this drug does, to finance the economical burden put on society by this vice, we argue on the benefits vs cost, do you have any idea on this issue? Do you have any ideas?

 

[DarkSun]

Rights and liberty has a lot to do with morality, actually. Prohibition is immoral.

But sometimes it's necessary. Or would legallising murder be the right thing to do? What about ending the prohibition of theft?

 

[Father Heathen]

But sometimes it's necessary. Or would legallising murder be immoral? What about ending the prohibition of theft?

Think, Kid. Think. Murder and theft are wrong because they directly violate the rights of other people, obviously. Smoking a plant is a victimless "crime" and isn't even remotely comparable. What if your government banned caffeine and you saw some kid sneaking a sip of soda. Would you really compare him to a thief or murderer? That soda might rot his teeth or make him fat. Where's the outrage? That **** needs to be banned. Today caffeine, tomorrow he could be strangling prostitutes and mutilating their corpses.

 

[DarkSun]

Hahahaha.

You're comparing marijuana to caffeine?

THC Information - Effects of THC - Use of THC


What happens after a person smokes marijuana?



Within a few minutes of inhaling marijuana smoke, the user will likely feel, along with intoxication, a dry mouth, rapid heartbeat, some loss of coordination and poor sense of balance, and slower reaction time. Blood vessels in the eye expand, so the user's eyes look red.
For some people, marijuana raises blood pressure slightly and can double the normal heart rate. This effect can be greater when other drugs are mixed with marijuana; but users do not always know when that happens.


As the immediate effects fade, usually after 2 to 3 hours, the user may become sleepy


How long does marijuana stay in the user's body


Fatty tissues in various organs readily absorb THC in marijuana. Generally, traces (metabolites) of THC can be detected by standard urine testing methods several days after a smoking session. However, in heavy, chronic users, traces can sometimes be detected for weeks after they have stopped using marijuana.


Can a user have a bad reaction?


Yes. Some users, especially someone new to the drug or in a strange setting, may suffer acute anxiety and have paranoid thoughts. This is more likely to happen with high doses of THC. These scary feelings will fade as the drug's effects wear off.
In rare cases, a user who has taken a very high dose of the drug can have severe psychotic symptoms and need emergency medical treatment.


Other kinds of bad reactions can occur when marijuana is mixed with other drugs, such as PCP or cocaine.


How is marijuana harmful?



Marijuana can be harmful in a number of ways, through both immediate effects and damage to health over time.


Marijuana hinders the user's short-term memory (memory for recent events), and he or she may have trouble handling complex tasks. With the use of more potent varieties of marijuana, even simple tasks can be difficult


Because of the drug's effects on perceptions and reaction time, users could be involved in auto crashes. Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.



(source: THC Information - Effects of THC - Use of THC)

Really, how is there any comparison?

 

[emiliano]

Think, Kid. Think. Murder and theft are wrong because they directly violate the rights of other people, obviously. Smoking a plant is a victimless "crime" and isn't even remotely comparable. What if your government banned caffeine and you saw some kid sneaking a sip of soda. Would you really compare him to a thief or murderer? That soda might rot his teeth or make him fat. Where's the outrage? That **** needs to be banned. Today caffeine, tomorrow he could be strangling prostitutes and mutilating their corpses.

Read what has been posted so far and you’ll find that this was discussed pretty early, marijuana is not a victim-less vice DS shared personal experiences with us, read boy, read.:shout

 

[BucephalusBB]

Hahahaha.

You're comparing marijuana to caffeine?

Why are you laughng to that? I think it is exactly the comparison you need..