Legalize Marijuana?

[methylatedghosts]

:biglaugh:
Frubals

I know I will remember the first day that I see a person under the influence of ONLY marijuana getting aggro...

 

[Stellify]

Yes it does, the fist state is one of euphoria

Look! is the same: Balance and judgement.

This is false, it depend on the predisposition of the subject.
WAY different.
Not at all, if a person uses alcohol or marijuana because is up set the result is the same, acts that the subject would not normally take, if is to celebrate something they both enhance the occasion

There are going to be exceptions, obviously. But generally speaking, my argument still stands. Marijuana is more likely to make a person mellow in situations that involve interpersonal conflict. Alcohol, on the other hand, causes behavior to be way more unpredictable.
And, as I said, once again, just because a few of the effects are the same doesn't make the outcomes of the drugs the same.

I'll take this as your surprised agreement, then?

Bipolar is the saddest of mental illness, we give then downers when they are elevated and upper when they are severely depressed, we protect them from promiscuity and excessive expending when they are high and encourage them to go out and meet people, to have fun when they are down, to go shopping.

Ok, that's nice. I know how bipolar disorder works. What does it have to do with this thread?

These pamphlets are put out n by the New South Wales health service, that employs researchers. doctors, psychiatrist and psychologist, in other words people that have authority in this field. I told you that my view could be biased I am an employee of this service.

No cause it is biased

Honestly, I think you should avoid putting forward biased research and information, then. It is generally not helpful to serious discussion, in my experience.

 

[Stellify]

Sorry I though that you said that you have a friend with bipolar. Well in the absence of that, ask a person that is on treatment with psychotropic, the regular blood test that they have to go through and the reasons for them, the amount of laxatives that they have to take, the anti-acids, the pills to regulate their blood pressure, they are on no less than four other medications that are just to ease the side effect of the psychotropic, to end this my advice is: don’t mess with your brain, there are severe consequences in doing so .

Yes, she is bipolar. But she is not currently on medication. Neither is another bipolar friend of mine.

BUT, I have known a number of people that were medicated for their bipolar disorder. I haven't known any to be as heavily medicated as you suggest, though. But perhaps that is because they were lucky enough to not have more severe cases, and your examples do?

Regardless of that, however, bipolar medications help many people with the disorder live more normal lives and avoid some of the lifestyle choices that manic and depressive episodes bring on. Many count it as a blessing. I would not say that those medications needed to be made illegal simply because they effect the CNS.

 

[Stellify]

I know I will remember the first day that I see a person under the influence of ONLY marijuana getting aggro...

Aggro?
But I think I know what you mean

The most aggressive thing I think I've ever seen anyone do while high was a bunch of those hand-stand push-ups to impress the girls
It worked...lol :flirt:

 

[Luminous]

That is were we disagree, marijuana is a drug that alters the CNS of it user, their ability to think clearly and is a dangerous drug for that reason and it is as detrimental to society as any other drug that alters the mind.

: You're sounding like a Muslim... or a Mormon.

 

[gnomon]

Sorry I though that you said that you have a friend with bipolar. Well in the absence of that, ask a person that is on treatment with psychotropic, the regular blood test that they have to go through and the reasons for them, the amount of laxatives that they have to take, the anti-acids, the pills to regulate their blood pressure, they are on no less than four other medications that are just to ease the side effect of the psychotropic, to end this my advice is: don’t mess with your brain, there are severe consequences in doing so .

Bipolar here.

No laxatives. No antacids. No blood pressure medication. But I was reduced to just taking Lithium and Busparine. Had to take the blood tests regularly.

But maintaining proper water intake and reducing diuretics with a small amount of diphenhydramine for shakes.

I never knew anyone at the hospital on Lithium, Depakote or other medications having to take what you describe. Especially SSRI's. I would think having to take laxatives as a common regimen with these drugs would have been brought up a lot in the meetings by those involved. It wasn't. Having spent some years as a regular at the hospital involved in AA, NA and other meetings I must say I find this observation rather strange. At least, it does not match up with my experience.

Overprescribing medications is the experience that bothers me.

edit: But this is a completely different topic.

 

[linwood]

Pretty good article by Kathleen Parker in The Washington Post on the legalization of marijuana and other drugs.
You know when the conservative mouthpieces of our society start talking about legalizing drugs something`s up.

Our marijuana laws have been ludicrous for as long as we've been alive. Almost half of us (42 percent) have tried marijuana at least once, according to a report published last year in PLoS Medicine, a journal of the Public Library of Science.
The U.S., in fact, boasts the highest percentage of pot smokers among 17 nations surveyed, including The Netherlands, where cannabis clouds waft from coffeehouse windows. Among them are no small number of high-ranking South Carolina leaders (we knew us when), who surely cringe every time a young person gets fingered for a "crime" they themselves have committed.

Washington Post K.Parker

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sorry I though that you said that you have a friend with bipolar. Well in the absence of that, ask a person that is on treatment with psychotropic, the regular blood test that they have to go through and the reasons for them, the amount of laxatives that they have to take, the anti-acids, the pills to regulate their blood pressure, they are on no less than four other medications that are just to ease the side effect of the psychotropic, to end this my advice is: don’t mess with your brain, there are severe consequences in doing so .

Why on earth would a bi-polar need Tums and some medicine to take a crap? And blood pressure meds? My girlfriend is bi-polar, and she has a good blood pressure, and no more indigestion or heart burn than an average person, and doesn't need help taking a dump. In all the research into bi-polar disorder I done before we moved in with each other, I never heard of such a regiment. And what does this have to do with weed?

 

[emiliano]

Bipolar here.No laxatives. No antacids. No blood pressure medication. But I was reduced to just taking Lithium and Busparine. Had to take the blood tests regularly. [/QUOTE
Ah the good ole lithium, wonderful drug for the treatment of severe depression. Have you ever ask why do you need regular test?

But maintaining proper water intake and reducing diuretics with a small amount of diphenhydramine for shakes.

Yes and a proper diet rich in fibre, I have nurse some patient on lithium, bipolar are one, if a patient have not adverse reaction to it, it is the best treatment, the problems are that one: bi-polar patient go through mania followed by depression, that why I consider this the saddest of mental illness, lithium does not help them when they enter on the manic phase of the illness and two: they need the two phases treated, then it comes the Sodium Valporate to treat mania. Because I work in the rehabilitation side of a stand alone mental hospital ( hospital assigned exclusively to the treatment of the mentally ill) we see the worst of the worst, the chronic, the medication resistive, they spend so much time hospitalised that they loose the ability to live in the community, and our job is to prevent the lost of basic social skills and try to get them to recover what they have lost, A patient told us once "don’t trat me when I am high", but when I am down, that is what make it so sad, because doctor know that after manic there will be severe depression, they have to weight the risk taking and the excessive drive against, the evil of depression and there are equal number of lives lost in both phases.

I never knew anyone at the hospital on Lithium, Depakote or other medications having to take what you describe. Especially SSRI's. I would think having to take laxatives as a common regimen with these drugs would have been brought up a lot in the meetings by those involved.

Sedation causes a slowing down of GI peristalsis that can lead to constipation, in general mentally person have a horrible diet, consisting mainly of take out ar pre-cooked food that lead evacuation to problems.

It wasn't. Having spent some years as a regular at the hospital involved in AA, NA and other meetings I must say I find this observation rather strange. At least, it does not match up with my experience.

You are lucky that you tolerate lithium well, not everybody is that lucky. What assisstance do they give you when you get elevate, in a manic state?

Overprescribing medications is the experience that bothers me.
edit: But this is a completely different topic.

Doctor react to the symptoms that patient bring up, we don’t get many by polar cases, this are better treated in the community, most of our patient are chronic schizophrenic and the favourite drug is clozapine, olanzepine, respirodal. Clozapine can only be prescribe after 3 other drugs fail, only by doctors that are trained and registered as it is an extremely dangerous drug, the Use of THC and it derivates is contraindicated and so is alcohol and even cigarette smoking, Now we are in the beginning of a campaign to stamp out smoking in the hospital grounds and offering free of cost nicotine replacement treatment, and there are no many places where you can light up this day, we can but counsel our patient to quit, we in this country dealt with marijuana lobby some year back, I see very little chance of your lobbyists pushing this one through, although I don’t understand your country way of thinking at all.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Aggro?
But I think I know what you mean

The most aggressive thing I think I've ever seen anyone do while high was a bunch of those hand-stand push-ups to impress the girls
It worked...lol :flirt:

Pfff. overrated..
I can even do those upsidedown if I have to..

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't know how many studies you read, or how much you know about the way studies are interpreted, but just because a few studies prove a correlation between marijuana use and psychotic episodes, it does not indicate a causal relationship! I don't know how many more times I can stress this point. Correlation does not equal cause. From most of the studies I've seen on the relationship between psychoses and marijuana, they establish a correlation. Nothing more.
This leaves a ton of possibilities open as to why there is a correlation.

In fact, I'd expect the correlation to go the opposite way that emiliano suggests: I imagine that a person with mental illness who recognizes that something's wrong might try to correct the problem (or at least feel a bit better) by self-medicating with whatever he or she can get easily... and they're more likely to have marijuana, alcohol and street-available narcotics at hand than proper psychiatric drugs.

 

[emiliano]

In fact, I'd expect the correlation to go the opposite way that emiliano suggests: I imagine that a person with mental illness who recognizes that something's wrong might try to correct the problem (or at least feel a bit better) by self-medicating with whatever he or she can get easily... and they're more likely to have marijuana, alcohol and street-available narcotics at hand than proper psychiatric drugs.

Ah, you expect that this groups will pull this over, when do you expect this to happen? As I said I don’t understand these people (Americans) at all, we dealt with these groups a while ago, they even fielded candidates in elections, they weren’t successful and have practically disappeared from the political arena, are you saying that marijuana cures mental illness?
How many mentally ill persons hospitalised in a mental institution due to a crisis recognises that they have a mental illness? They loose contact with reality, they have a psychotic episode that we know to be trigger by the use of illegal drug. Do you think that it is impossible to rehabilitate them? Are they better off self medicating? Is this what is all about?

 

[gnomon]

Ah, you expect that this groups will pull this over, when do you expect this to happen? As I said I don’t understand these people (Americans) at all, we dealt with these groups a while ago, they even fielded candidates in elections, they weren’t successful and have practically disappeared from the political arena, are you saying that marijuana cures mental illness?
How many mentally ill persons hospitalised in a mental institution due to a crisis recognises that they have a mental illness? They loose contact with reality, they have a psychotic episode that we know to be trigger by the use of illegal drug. Do you think that it is impossible to rehabilitate them? Are they better off self medicating? Is this what is all about?

You don't really work in a hospital do you?

You could not work with mentally ill people and possibly have posted what you just did.

Or maybe English is your second language.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ah, you expect that this groups will pull this over, when do you expect this to happen? As I said I don’t understand these people (Americans) at all, we dealt with these groups a while ago, they even fielded candidates in elections, they weren’t successful and have practically disappeared from the political arena, are you saying that marijuana cures mental illness? http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZUxdm022YYAU

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that when people feel unwell, they'll reach out for something to make them feel better, whether it's marijuana, alcohol, other drugs, or even other behaviours. I'm not saying that marijuana is a good way to treat mental illness; I'm saying that some mentally ill people might be attracted to marijuana or alcohol as an escape: IOW, that they feel being stoned or drunk is preferable to dealing with an untreated mental condition sober. I'm definitely not saying that this is a good or healthy way to deal with a mental illness; all I'm saying is that the correlation between mental illness and drug use can probably be explained at least in part by the use of drugs as a coping mechanism.

 

[Stellify]

Pfff. overrated..
I can even do those upsidedown if I have to..

Upside down as in standing up?
He was on his hands, feet in the air. He was also really, really drunk. And really, really stoned lol.

:flirt:

In fact, I'd expect the correlation to go the opposite way that emiliano suggests: I imagine that a person with mental illness who recognizes that something's wrong might try to correct the problem (or at least feel a bit better) by self-medicating with whatever he or she can get easily... and they're more likely to have marijuana, alcohol and street-available narcotics at hand than proper psychiatric drugs.

Self-medication DOES happen, I just haven't seen any studies that can give an accurate estimate of how often.
People will smoke/drink/etc. to counteract the feelings of depression, boredom, etc.

You don't really work in a hospital do you?

You could not work with mentally ill people and possibly have posted what you just did.

Or maybe English is your second language.

That's pretty much what I've been thinking :areyoucra

 

[Stellify]

Oh, I thought this was hilarious....Thought you guys might enjoy it


YouTube - SNL Does Phelps BS

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How many mentally ill persons hospitalised in a mental institution due to a crisis recognises that they have a mental illness? They loose contact with reality, they have a psychotic episode that we know to be trigger by the use of illegal drug. Do you think that it is impossible to rehabilitate them? Are they better off self medicating? Is this what is all about?

Yeah, I have to side with Gnomon. I really doubt you work in a hospital at all. Just define what an illegal drug is, because I promise you in another culture, in other time periods, they were legal. Opium and Peyote are both illegal, but legal for some and in other nations. Salvia gives a much more powerful effect than many illegal drugs, but it's legal. Heroin is used in some nations like America uses Morphine. Alcohol was once illegal in the states. Marijuana is legal in some nations.

 

[emiliano]

You don't really work in a hospital do you?

You could not work with mentally ill people and possibly have posted what you just did.

Or maybe English is your second language.

Yes I do and that is the reason why I have an aberration to drug pusher, those that prescribe the use of pot to the mentally ill, you don’t have insight into your own mental illness ( if the story that you posted is true, I doubt that anyway), what do you think is the reason for you getting the shakes? You could be the only By-polar individual that has only one phase of the Bi-polar and need only one kind of medications, as for laxatives, why do you have to maintain a good intake of fluids? You have to ask the questions, it seem that you have an interest in making everybody a drug addict, and pushing this on the mentally ill is, well I don’t know what to call it. What kind of Bi-polar are you?

 

[BucephalusBB]

Upside down as in standing up?

Are you laughing about my arts now?
Not only do I stand up perfectly, but I also pump my arms up and down and stuff. :slap:

He was on his hands, feet in the air. He was also really, really drunk. And really, really stoned lol.

Wait a minute.. He was upside down, stoned and drunk and THAT impressed you!?!?!?
Aw man, if only the girls in the Netherlands were thát easy..

I know....:foot: :slap:

 

[emiliano]

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that when people feel unwell, they'll reach out for something to make them feel better, whether it's marijuana, alcohol, other drugs, or even other behaviours. I'm not saying that marijuana is a good way to treat mental illness; I'm saying that some mentally ill people might be attracted to marijuana or alcohol as an escape: IOW, that they feel being stoned or drunk is preferable to dealing with an untreated mental condition sober. I'm definitely not saying that this is a good or healthy way to deal with a mental illness; all I'm saying is that the correlation between mental illness and drug use can probably be explained at least in part by the use of drugs as a coping mechanism.

Earlier in the discussion I gave a reason for this to be the case, mental illness still have more stigma attached to it than drug or alcohol abuse, they rather have people see them as drunkards, or addicts than crazy when they are in the middle of an episode. So what is the only morally acceptable course of action, but to fight the drug cartel and the lobbies, these are one and the same, medicinal use of marijuana, what do they take us for? Messing with you CNS not harmful? It is sexy, it cool, you will feel better These are the reasons why the lobbyist have managed to fool so many with their lies, this is why the vulnerable, the mentally ill is easy prey of this immoral people, seduction and our inaction that is what has caused this problem, it is a big one, what is propose? Give in and leave the field to them, legalise it. This is where the so called coping mechanism come from, drug pusher and pseudo-doctors.