It is a good thing that you got informed, I work in the in the health industry, the mental health area of it, I have access to information and see the effects of this in a public stand alone dedicated Hospital, so I may be bised, in the past our patients were mostly chronically mentally ill people (genuinely mad), lately we have been almost overwhelmed by the cases of drug induced Psychosis. They are no actually mentally ill persons, but are a danger to themselves or others, thus they must be hospitalised for their own protection and publics safety, and what we do is collect data and the investigations and studies of this data shows the marijuana ( the most used illegal drug in Australia) is the prevalent cause of this, after six weeks of treatment ( THC is store in the fatty tissue of the body for about four weeks) they are discharge back to the community to start the cycle all over again. They usually relapse because they leave the hospital convinced that that this was due to bad stuff and that they will get better supply next time, if marijuana get legalised thy will advertise it right ? And all the medicinal benefits of this wonder drug will be advertise, right? Now if you have not been diagnosed with a disease that can be treated by this drug, why use it? There is one medicament dronabinol that is use to treat nausea produced by chemotherapy in cancer patients. In 1992 it was approved for prescription to people with AIDS to stimulate appetite and combat weight loss. This patient dont have to moke it, all they have to do is to take it in capsules as prescribed by a doctor, but offcourse this is not what it been proposed, is it? What do you make of the arguments that because we have in the past legalised other substances that affect our behaviour in a negative way we must legalise yet another one? It is difficult for me understand the issue in respect to the US laws as in Australia we have a different constitution, when I get into this type of discussion a I cannot comprehend these rights that people think that they have, in the service that I work for, the administrators (the government) has decided that smoking in the hospital ground is prohibited and there is great resistance by inpatients and even nursing staffs, they claim a right to smoke, is smoking a right?
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Legalize Marijuana?
- Thread starter Yeshua_Lives
- Start date
It is a good thing that you got informed, I work in the in the health industry, the mental health area of it, I have access to information and see the effects of this in a public stand alone dedicated Hospital, so I may be bised, in the past our patients were mostly chronically mentally ill people (genuinely mad), lately we have been almost overwhelmed by the cases of drug induced Psychosis. They are no actually mentally ill persons, but are a danger to themselves or others, thus they must be hospitalised for their own protection and publics safety, and what we do is collect data and the investigations and studies of this data shows the marijuana ( the most used illegal drug in Australia) is the prevalent cause of this, after six weeks of treatment ( THC is store in the fatty tissue of the body for about four weeks) they are discharge back to the community to start the cycle all over again. They usually relapse because they leave the hospital convinced that that this was due to bad stuff and that they will get better supply next time, if marijuana get legalised thy will advertise it right ? And all the medicinal benefits of this wonder drug will be advertise, right? Now if you have not been diagnosed with a disease that can be treated by this drug, why use it? There is one medicament dronabinol that is use to treat nausea produced by chemotherapy in cancer patients. In 1992 it was approved for prescription to people with AIDS to stimulate appetite and combat weight loss. This patient dont have to moke it, all they have to do is to take it in capsules as prescribed by a doctor, but offcourse this is not what it been proposed, is it? What do you make of the arguments that because we have in the past legalised other substances that affect our behaviour in a negative way we must legalise yet another one? It is difficult for me understand the issue in respect to the US laws as in Australia we have a different constitution, when I get into this type of discussion a I cannot comprehend these rights that people think that they have, in the service that I work for, the administrators (the government) has decided that smoking in the hospital ground is prohibited and there is great resistance by inpatients and even nursing staffs, they claim a right to smoke, is smoking a right?
Stellify
StarChild
I don't remember the exact statistics...and to be honest, I don't feel like searching through an entire textbook to find them again right now..
But I think cigarettes, alcohol and caffeine are the three most commonly used drugs (at least in the US). I'm fairly sure that alcohol is used much more than marijuana.
Along with this post, I would like to add that:
Despite a larger budget given to the "War Against Drugs" in the United States, drug use and trafficking has not declined since the War on Drugs started back in the 70s.
Good point.
But does that make it ok? I mean, selfishness, stupidity and harm are caused by things other than illicit drugs (ie: your examples of alcohol and cigarettes), yes. But does that mean that legalizing things that have the potential for doing more harm is ok?
Although I guess it's happening anyways, so...
Ah, ok. I gotcha. I could more easily agree with legalization like that if it were possible to somehow make sure that it was kept private and the detrimental effects were not imposed upon those who decided not to use drugs.
I'm buzzed from a venti iced coffee so it's all good!
Haha I love coffee :hug:
Stellify
StarChild
What exactly are your credentials in the mental health industry? Because judging by some of your arguments and your lack of support for them, I find it hard to believe you participate in the gathering and interpretation of this research you mention.
Also, once again, I point out that correlation is not the same as causation. Be careful of your wording, please.
Death Rates(Annually):
Marijuana 0
How much of this is due to the mode of ingestion? What is the preferred mode of marijuana ingestion?
Marijuana?
What % is related to marijuana?
What percentage of sexual perversion and unsafe practices are caused by people been stoned?
Marijuana and marijuana compound are been prescribed any data?
Marijuana 0
I am a nurse, so what I am involved in is direct observations and reporting to treating teams, aggression management, case management, counselling, D&A group counselling, assessments, advocacy, we report electronically to a data bank, we run information groups for patients and their relatives, provide information, the service gives us access to the information and studies done all over the country, I was once offered a position o in a methadone clinic, I rejected the offer on moral grounds, although I must admit that I learnt many things about the philosophy that drives these programmes that I did not know before. As I said all these information may be biased and directed.
People who take in the caffeine equivalent of three cups of brewed coffee (or seven cups of instant) are more likely to hallucinate, a new study suggests.
The researchers found that people with a caffeine intake that high, whether it came from coffee, tea, chocolate or caffeinated energy drinks or pills, had a three-times-higher tendency to hear voices and see things that were not there than those who consumed the equivalent of a half-cup of brewed coffee (or one cup of instant coffee).
Though most people who drink loads of coffee are not known to hallucinate seriously, when these types of experiences interfere with daily functioning, they are considered to be psychotic.
http://www.livescience.com/health/090113-coffee-hallucinations.html
The researchers found that people with a caffeine intake that high, whether it came from coffee, tea, chocolate or caffeinated energy drinks or pills, had a three-times-higher tendency to hear voices and see things that were not there than those who consumed the equivalent of a half-cup of brewed coffee (or one cup of instant coffee).
Though most people who drink loads of coffee are not known to hallucinate seriously, when these types of experiences interfere with daily functioning, they are considered to be psychotic.
http://www.livescience.com/health/090113-coffee-hallucinations.html
Marijuana is a drug that divides people. Some people herald it as the wonder drug of the '90s, capable of relieving the symptoms of many serious illnesses. Others rue the day the cannabis sativa plant was ever discovered.
As well as being morally corrupting, its critics say it causes brain damage and is carcinogenic. Naturally this is all very confusing for people who smoke the drug and who want information. The drug's illegal status doesn't help. It makes it difficult for scientists to research the effects of the drug. Also it means the sort of health advice and health care that should be available is restricted.
Fortunately, it is possible to separate fact from fiction. Marijuana is neither completely harmless, or as dangerous as some people say. Rather, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Undoubtedly it is useful as a pain reliever or in the treatment of nausea - a great help to AIDS patients.
But the harmless hippy image of marijuana is being tested by the latest Australian research into the connection between cannabis and psychosis. It seems that marijuana use can act as a trigger for the progression of mental illness in some people. How this comes about is still being investigated, but it seems likely that cannabis alters the flow of a naturally occurring transmitter chemical in our brains. The same chemical, if it malfunctions, is linked with he development of schizophrenia. The program signals a warming for people at risk.
http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/poison/marijuan/marijuan.htm
Stellify
StarChild
I find this comment pretty much irrelevant. Death rates due to "tobacco" are usually REALLY death rates due to "cigarettes". And there's a HUGE difference between just tobacco and tobacco with added pesticides and other poisonous substances.
For instance, smoking hookah tobacco isn't nearly as unhealthy as smoking cigarettes because hookah tobacco has only about 0.05% nicotine and 0%-0.05% tar. And pretty much nothing else.
Marijuana has even less added to it than hookah tobacco does, and no nicotine.
What percentage of sexual perversion and unsafe practices are caused by the doctrines of the Church?
Even if Rx drugs are used recreationally, don't you think they would be misused even MORE if they weren't under the control of an Rx?
I would also like to add that your statistics are not true for every area. Alcohol-related death rates, in particular, are drastically different in the US.
Yes, but what kind of nurse? CNA, LPN? What?
Just because you're involved in gathering data for researchers and have access to studies (which EVERYONE has access to) doesn't mean you know how to interpret them correctly. As I've said a few times before on here, the language used in published research is EXTREMELY particular. More so than most laymen realize, which can skew their interpretation of it.
What exactly was the point of this post?
Lack of sleep causes hallucinations, too.
So do some sleep aids.
I think this coffee post is kind of irrelevant :sarcastic
EVERYTHING is considered a carcinogen nowadays. My dad stopped letting my little sister eat french fries because he heard they were supposed to cause cancer. The "It's a CARCINOGEN!" argument isn't exactly awe-inspiring....
Marijuana is a drug that divides people. Some people herald it as the wonder drug of the '90s, capable of relieving the symptoms of many serious illnesses. Others rue the day the cannabis sativa plant was ever discovered.
As well as being morally corrupting, its critics say it causes brain damage and is carcinogenic. Naturally this is all very confusing for people who smoke the drug and who want information. The drug's illegal status doesn't help. It makes it difficult for scientists to research the effects of the drug. Also it means the sort of health advice and health care that should be available is restricted.
Fortunately, it is possible to separate fact from fiction. Marijuana is neither completely harmless, or as dangerous as some people say. Rather, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Undoubtedly it is useful as a pain reliever or in the treatment of nausea - a great help to AIDS patients.
But the harmless hippy image of marijuana is being tested by the latest Australian research into the connection between cannabis and psychosis. It seems that marijuana use can act as a trigger for the progression of mental illness in some people. How this comes about is still being investigated, but it seems likely that cannabis alters the flow of a naturally occurring transmitter chemical in our brains. The same chemical, if it malfunctions, is linked with he development of schizophrenia. The program signals a warming for people at risk.
http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/poison/marijuan/marijuan.htm
I don't know about other places, but research is still performed on marijuana here, despite its illicit status.
...So it's basically saying that it can trigger psychosis in people who are already predisposed? Are you surprised? Psychoses have a lot of triggers.
I find this comment pretty much irrelevant. Death rates due to "tobacco" are usually REALLY death rates due to "cigarettes". And there's a HUGE difference between just tobacco and tobacco with added pesticides and other poisonous substances.
For instance, smoking hookah tobacco isn't nearly as unhealthy as smoking cigarettes because hookah tobacco has only about 0.05% nicotine and 0%-0.05% tar. And pretty much nothing else.
Marijuana has even less added to it than hookah tobacco does, and no nicotine.
What percentage of sexual perversion and unsafe practices are caused by the doctrines of the Church?
Even if Rx drugs are used recreationally, don't you think they would be misused even MORE if they weren't under the control of an Rx?
I would also like to add that your statistics are not true for every area. Alcohol-related death rates, in particular, are drastically different in the US.
Yes, but what kind of nurse? CNA, LPN? What?
Just because you're involved in gathering data for researchers and have access to studies (which EVERYONE has access to) doesn't mean you know how to interpret them correctly. As I've said a few times before on here, the language used in published research is EXTREMELY particular. More so than most laymen realize, which can skew their interpretation of it.
What exactly was the point of this post?
Lack of sleep causes hallucinations, too.
So do some sleep aids.
I think this coffee post is kind of irrelevant :sarcastic
EVERYTHING is considered a carcinogen nowadays. My dad stopped letting my little sister eat french fries because he heard they were supposed to cause cancer. The "It's a CARCINOGEN!" argument isn't exactly awe-inspiring....
I don't know about other places, but research is still performed on marijuana here, despite its illicit status.
...So it's basically saying that it can trigger psychosis in people who are already predisposed? Are you surprised? Psychoses have a lot of triggers.
Well here we go, this is a good link for information on the Australian side of things http://members.optusnet.com.au/~apfdfy/Suicide.html
With the new reforms introduced to the service we are all clinician and as I say when at work and running any programme for the service we follow what the resources that we are given states, we dont interpreted them we deliver and direct the group to what the service intend. On cancer we follow this: Hashibe M, Straif K, Tashkin DP, Morgenstern H, Greenland S, Zhang ZF.
International Agency for Research on Cancer, 69008 Lyon, France.
Marijuana is the most commonly used illegal drug in the United States and is considered by young adults to be the illicit drug with the least risk. On the other hand, marijuana smoke contains several of the same carcinogens and co-carcinogens as the tar from tobacco, raising concerns that smoking of marijuana may be a risk factor for tobacco-related cancers.
And legalising yet another addictive drug to the list is lunacy.
The article does not say that there are no studies been carried out, what it says is The drug's illegal status doesn't help. It makes it difficult for scientists to research the effects of the drug. Also it means the sort of health advice and health care that should be available is restricted. So what this got to do with anything? I don't know about other places, but research is still performed on marijuana here, despite its illicit status.
I don't know about other places, but research is still performed on marijuana here, despite its illicit status.
Stellify
StarChild
Ok, the first study you posted was from the 80s and early 90s. You're going to need much more recent research to back up your claims than that. That's almost, but not quite, as bad as someone citing "Reefer Madness" as a good educational source on the effects of marijuana.
Ok, but what exactly is your level when it comes to nursing? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I've only ever heard "clinician" in reference to someone who works in a clinical environment (as opposed to research, etc)...so it doesn't help specify your position. Clinicians can be psychologists, doctors, nurses.... Are you a clinical nursing assistant?
And, you were interpreting data. That's what your arguments were in earlier posts.
As I said. EVERYTHING is a carcinogen nowadays. I didn't deny that smoking marijuana might be as well. Just that, when causing cancer is almost a "norm" for products these days, saying weed does it isn't an argument that goes very far.
Or, if the confusion was in my statement about marijuana having less stuff added to it than hookah tobacco, that's because hookah tobacco is the tobacco leaf itself, with a kind of flavored molasses added to make it moist and give it the desired taste. Whereas marijuana, when smoked, is usually just the dried leaf, nothing more.
I didn't say research wasn't a pain, but it IS still going on. There's a difference between no research being done and research being done within certain limitations for the time-being.
What is been done here in Australia to the health system in general is that we have continuos education for Nurses, I am a registered nurse meaning that I went through a training in general hospital, later I got into developmental disabilities and through further training I became a specialised nurse in what was known as mental retardation, then I moved to mental heath and again through training (internal hospital based training) I became a specialised nurse, got trained in applying a range of assessment tool, interview techniques, self disclosure form, standard measures forms, we take patient to be the case manager, design a care plan, review it and report on a weekly bases, review and redesign said plan with the collaboration of the patient, his primary carer, medical officer, consultant psychiatrist, every 13 weeks, all the data collected goes to a national data base, that is where it is studied and new policies and procedure are designed, that where we get the information about the co-morbidity of drug addictions and the effect it has in the recovery of a psychotic patients, we get to hear a lot about these things from parents, spouses and even children about what drugs do to them, it would be absolutely immoral for us to support the legalization of such substances after what we know of it effects.
Stellify
StarChild
Ok, but if the only experience you have is with mentally retarded people or people with psychoses, that doesn't exactly give you a good frame of reference.
Certainly, people with different mental issues shouldn't be doing drugs or on medications that are harmful to their particular case. But...that can be said for ANY drug. Not just marijuana. If coffee or acetaminophen was a trigger for schizophrenic episodes, then people predisposed or already diagnosed as schizophrenic shouldn't take it. That's obvious! On the other hand, it wouldn't make any sense to make those substances illegal on the basis that they're harmful to schizophrenics.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like your argument here is "marijuana aggravates psychoses in mental patients therefore it should be made illegal."
....?
Is that more or less the gist of it?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Ok then, just find me ONE, just ONE medically documented death of a marijuana overdose? This document must show the cause of death to be directly caused by the use of marijuana.Marijuana and marijuana compound are been prescribed any data?
Marijuana 0
I guess I am morally corrupt then. It's critics are wrong on the brain damage, and it's only carcinogenic if smoked. Eating and vaporizing are two other methods of ingestion that do not have all the carbons that are carcinogenic. Smoking from a bong also helps filter out some of the carbons.
I use to drink 6 - 8 XXL cans of Monster in one day. Sometimes as many as 10 - 12. Not once did I ever hallucinate. But, I also sleep a good 8 hours every night. Caffeine is know for keeping people awake. People who are sleep deprived are known for hallucinating.
If people already have said mental illnesses. Back during the early to mid 1900's, a kid beat his mom to death, and said it was because he had smoked a marijuana cigarette. It was either a doctor or psychologist estimated that the chances that it was the marijuana that caused the boy to kill his mom was only something like .10% chance. I'm gonna have to look it up though, as it has been a while since I've read this particular claim.
And honestly, do you really want to trust or believe Harry J. Anslinger, the man who made marijuana illegal, when he has been quoted as saying the following:
(So the man was obviously racist)
(What, I ask, is wrong with pacifism?)
(again with the racism.)
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
And I want to ask, with the millions of pot users, why not just take their word for it? For the most part, save for a very small percentage, we get happy, get the munchies, and just want to chill and listen to some music. Are you aware that there is even a "stoner" sub genre of rock and metal, which has strong emphasis on the bass, which appeals to alot of people when they are stoned?
Stellify
StarChild
That's interesting! I knew there was a sub-genre, but I didn't know it was characterized by a heavy bass. Cool
Did you know that in other cultures (as opposed to North American), pot is viewed as an appetite suppressant? I would have to look it up again (it's in that book I PMed you about), but I think in Jamaica it's viewed as an appetite (food-craving) suppressant, and in India it's viewed as a sexual-appetite suppressant? I thought that was interesting. I think it has to do with the differing levels of THC in the plants available in those places.
ie: a little marijuana can cause increased sexual desire, but a lot can cause a decrease, to the point of impotency. In India, there is a higher THC content, so it has the second effect more often than the first.
DarkSun
:eltiT
If you had read and understood what I was suggesting, I think you would find that I was supporting you. :sarcastic
Last edited:
DarkSun
:eltiT
I don't remember the exact statistics...and to be honest, I don't feel like searching through an entire textbook to find them again right now..
But I think cigarettes, alcohol and caffeine are the three most commonly used drugs (at least in the US). I'm fairly sure that alcohol is used much more than marijuana.
So is it really fair to compare alcohol-related crimes to marijuana-related crimes, when there are far less people who abuse marijuana?
You got it! Now here is the problem, how do you stopt them, and consider that in Australia like in the US everything can become a right, a constitutional right, now because our past errors smoking is a right, getting drunk out of your wits is a right, killing the unborn or the ones that we have no further use for is about to become a right. The strongest argument activist throw at us is, we done it before with alcohol and tobacco, mentally ill people have all the right that the general population has, developmentally delay people also do, including taking risk and making mistakes. If marijuana is legalised they have the right to use it for whatever purpose and you cant stop them. There will be no shortage of activist sugar coating the damage that this brings, and defend their newly acquired right.
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
The main problem with this drug is the same as with any other drug that interferes with the CNS, and the thought process, any substance that impairs judgement is a dangerous drug to have freely commercialised, with alcohol legislation was passed for the education of dealer on what is known as the responsible dispensation of alcohol and is a complete failure, traders are still dispensing alcohol to people that are drunk, the carnage in the road continues, should we add another one? When alcohol and tobacco smoking were made legal, it use in public was acceptable , the same will happen with marijuana and the cost to police will increase, at the moment and because it e illegal it is done in private or secret underground places that the police can observe and monitor. What you are not taking into your account is the death of other people as a consequence of someone been stone and drive a car, operate machinery or taking life or death decision for other people, you would never get a 0, and that is what I was referring to.