Legalize Marijuana?

[Stellify]

So is it really fair to compare alcohol-related crimes to marijuana-related crimes, when there are far less people who abuse marijuana?

I think it's still relevant when the incidences for alcohol-related incidents is so astronomically high that the difference in the number of users alone can't account for it.
Part of that post, as well, was to point out that it is very hard to prove that the ingesting of a drug is the CAUSE of violence (as opposed to violence that would have happened without a drug's influence). BUT alcohol is one of the few that IS known to cause violent behavior directly, and on a rather large scale.
I think that all came up because emiliano was trying to compare alcohol-related violence and marijuana-related violence.....I think I also pointed out that marijuana makes people less violent.

Anywho, there was a point to me adding that book quote in there
Sorry...cold medicine makes me ramble a bit

You got it! Now here is the problem, how do you stopt them, and consider that in Australia like in the US everything can become a right, a constitutional right, now because our past errors smoking is a right, getting drunk out of your wits is a right, killing the unborn or the ones that we have no further use for is about to become a right. The strongest argument activist throw at us is, we done it before with alcohol and tobacco, mentally ill people have all the right that the general population has, developmentally delay people also do, including taking risk and making mistakes. If marijuana is legalised they have the right to use it for whatever purpose and you can’t stop them. There will be no shortage of activist sugar coating the damage that this brings, and defend their newly acquired right.

Well, first of all, I don't think that the "this is a trigger for schizophrenics, therefore should be illegal to ALL people" argument is valid or good enough. As I said in my other post, if acetaminophen was a trigger, it would be pretty ridiculous to make it illegal just on those grounds.

As others have said earlier on this thread, the illegal status of marijuana makes it easier to get. Simply because there is no kind of regulation on buying or using it.

If it were legalized, then perhaps researchers could find out for sure if it triggers or makes psychotic episodes worse. As of right now, it's not completely confirmed.

If it were legalized, especially if it were only available via prescription, then schizophrenics wouldn't have access to it. Unless they had a quack for a doctor who prescribed it. In which case, the doctor would probably get his/her license revoked fairly quickly.

I don't know about where you live, but the severely psychotic people here are given over to the care of the state or their individual families if they can't function in normal society, and would not have access to any drugs that were not prescribed to them by a medical practitioner.

I imagine other legislation would be put in place to regulate the "safe" amount of THC in your system, penalties for endangering the public due to intoxication, etc.
It's not like it would just be legalized and then people would be free to use it or abuse it any way they wished.

 

[methylatedghosts]

The main problem with this drug is the same as with any other drug that interferes with the CNS, and the thought process, any substance that impairs judgement is a dangerous drug to have freely commercialised, with alcohol legislation was passed for the education of dealer on what is known as the responsible dispensation of alcohol and is a complete failure, traders are still dispensing alcohol to people that are drunk, the carnage in the road continues, should we add another one? When alcohol and tobacco smoking were made legal, it use in public was acceptable , the same will happen with marijuana and the cost to police will increase, at the moment and because it e illegal it is done in private or secret underground places that the police can observe and monitor. What you are not taking into your account is the death of other people as a consequence of someone been stone and drive a car, operate machinery or taking life or death decision for other people, you would never get a 0, and that is what I was referring to.

I wouldn't suspect that legalisation of marijuana would greatly increase the number of road-users under it's influence. In fact, I would venture that those who do drive under it's influence already would be about the only ones that do it, regardless of it's legality. Of course, this is pure speculation, but those people that don't use it purely because it is illegal would be those more tended towards responsible use, including not "smoking and driving". As for police hours? Much less time would be spent in trying to get rid of the stuff, and more time and effort could be spent in harder drugs which have a much more detrimental effect on society and individuals.

 

[emiliano]

Stellfy.

Well, first of all, I don't think that the "this is a trigger for schizophrenics, therefore should be illegal to ALL people" argument is valid or good enough. As I said in my other post, if acetaminophen was a trigger, it would be pretty ridiculous to make it illegal just on those grounds.

The fact that you think that is isn’t a trigger contradict the opinion and the studies made in this area of health, and for your information 90% of mentally ill people abused drugs and marijuana is the most popular.

As others have said earlier on this thread, the illegal status of marijuana makes it easier to get. Simply because there is no kind of regulation on buying or using it.

Yeah and legalization will add to the cost that also got a mention.

If it were legalized, then perhaps researchers could find out for sure if it triggers or makes psychotic episodes worse. As of right now, it's not completely confirmed.

Out of the data that has been collected over the years in mental health there is no doubt that it is a trigger for the mentally ill, what is in doubt and was the counter argument to my statement that even casual consumption of pot lead to psychosis in the general population, that is not confirmed, the mentally ill information is obtained form self disclosure, relatives and significant other and is very reliable in formation, in addition MRI and CT Scans ordered by the treating teams leaves no doubts, there are no doubt about the changes of the brain, those that aren't mentally ill cannot be ordered any of this investigations.

If it were legalized, especially if it were only available via prescription, then schizophrenics wouldn't have access to it. Unless they had a quack for a doctor who prescribed it. In which case, the doctor would probably get his/her license revoked fairly quickly.

But is isn’t what is been propose, is it? What is been proposed is to make a right for all, to sell it as cigarettes are sold even in vending machines, I see no intent on having it regulated in the way you say.

I don't know about where you live, but the severely psychotic people here are given over to the care of the state or their individual families if they can't function in normal society, and would not have access to any drugs that were not prescribed to them by a medical practitioner.

But Psychosis is not a permanent condition, they recover from their episode and a returned to the community , the medical use of THC and it benefits and therapeutic value is to what is been pursued by the lobbyist in the marijuana legalization push, it is just part of their strategy.

I imagine other legislation would be put in place to regulate the "safe" amount of THC in your system, penalties for endangering the public due to intoxication, etc.

You are kidding me. Right? And by the way, this should make those that think that legalization would make a good source of revenue for the government to think of the cost involved.

It's not like it would just be legalized and then people would be free to use it or abuse it any way they wished.

But that is the thing, it gives a right to sell it and use it which ever way they want , it establish a right, the medicinal use of marijuana couldn’t be farther away from the mind of the proponent of legalization.

 

[Stellify]

Stellfy.

The fact that you think that is isn’t a trigger contradict the opinion and the studies made in this area of health, and for your information 90% of mentally ill people abused drugs and marijuana is the most popular.

I don't know how many studies you read, or how much you know about the way studies are interpreted, but just because a few studies prove a correlation between marijuana use and psychotic episodes, it does not indicate a causal relationship! I don't know how many more times I can stress this point. Correlation does not equal cause. From most of the studies I've seen on the relationship between psychoses and marijuana, they establish a correlation. Nothing more.
This leaves a ton of possibilities open as to why there is a correlation.

Yeah and legalization will add to the cost that also got a mention.

To the cost of what? Marijuana itself? Maybe.
But the millions of dollars spent on trying to control marijuana trafficking, on the upkeep of prisoners held for marijuana-related crimes, and all the money leaving the country for the import of marijuana itself, will be saved.
I still say it would help keep money in this economy.
Then, also, more time and money could be moved to the effort to control other, worse, illicit drugs such as heroin.

Out of the data that has been collected over the years in mental health there is no doubt that it is a trigger for the mentally ill, what is in doubt and was the counter argument to my statement that even casual consumption of pot lead to psychosis in the general population, that is not confirmed, the mentally ill information is obtained form self disclosure, relatives and significant other and is very reliable in formation, in addition MRI and CT Scans ordered by the treating teams leaves no doubts, there are no doubt about the changes of the brain, those that aren't mentally ill cannot be ordered any of this investigations.

I meant "trigger psychotic episodes" in the sense that it triggered them in the general population.
Still, my point stands. If it were legalized, more research could be conducted.
I would also like to add that even if the information is reliable, the interpretation of that information many times is not (as you yourself have demonstrated). Researchers are just as biased as everyone else. That's why peer-reviewed studies and repeated experimentation are so important.

But is isn’t what is been propose, is it? What is been proposed is to make a right for all, to sell it as cigarettes are sold even in vending machines, I see no intent on having it regulated in the way you say.

On here, yes. Other things have been proposed. But as far as actual propositions made to the government on the legalization of marijuana, I've heard "legalize it just for medicinal use" brought up numerous times.
I personally, would be happy with even that much, since it would ease the suffering of people who couldn't take more "conventional" painkillers.

But Psychosis is not a permanent condition, they recover from their episode and a returned to the community , the medical use of THC and it benefits and therapeutic value is to what is been pursued by the lobbyist in the marijuana legalization push, it is just part of their strategy.

Excuse me, I should have been more specific.
Severely psychotic individuals with actual disorders such as catatonic type schizophrenia are kept under the direct care of the state.
If you're speaking of more mild forms of psychotic episodes...Well, a lot of people have those. Even from something as simple as an extreme lack of sleep and too much stress.
And the argument for the medicinal benefits of marijuana is not made invalid just because you find the arguments for recreational use distasteful

You are kidding me. Right? And by the way, this should make those that think that legalization would make a good source of revenue for the government to think of the cost involved.

I don't think you're giving enough thought to the ridiculous costs that are already involved in the efforts to keep it illegal.
And no, I'm not kidding. Do you actually think the government would legalize marijuana and not have ANY kind of regulation on it? I don't know about other governments, but I think it would be nigh an impossibility with mine.

But that is the thing, it gives a right to sell it and use it which ever way they want , it establish a right, the medicinal use of marijuana couldn’t be farther away from the mind of the proponent of legalization.

As I said in the part of my post right before this, there would be some sort of regulation. As has been mentioned by others, the use of growing/selling licenses would probably be involved. I imagine that, like alcohol, there might be "dry" counties and "wet" counties (although I think the terminology would be a bit different ), possible smoking areas assigned.

And, as I have said, the medicinal uses of marijuana are still important and form a very valid part of the argument for the pro-legalization group. Just because you don't like the rest of the pro-legalization goals doesn't mean it's a null argument.

 

[emiliano]

Stellify.
Just two points on this issue, first: on the medicinal use of HTC I posted some information on Dronabinol “Dronabinol was approved by the government in 1985 for treating the nausea produced by chemotherapy in cancer patients. In 1992 it was approved for prescription to people with AIDS to stimulate appetite and combat weight loss ( you said that it was use to suppress appetite)” so if you are affected by any of these conditions, we the opponent of the legalization of marijuana mean you no harm nor are we doing you any, the cost of controlling it limited use was already made, a registry was established and doctor must instruct their patient not to drive or operate machinery, but this isn’t what this is about, this is about the use of this drug as recreational, to get stoned, I am from an earlier generation so I did not even experimented with the staff, however I did experimented with alcohol so I know what been out of control is, the initial euphoria followed by depression, the laughter then tears, the friendliness fallowed by anger, the embraces followed brawling, I saw my intelligent friends acting like complete morons, those that I admired for their hight standards descend to the lowest level of morality, loosing their judgement, not been able to make the difference between right and wrong, I was a participant in this great evil so a know that adding another will make the situation worst, do you know that this drug is commonly used in conjunction with alcohol? It seems like they are twins.
On the economical wind fall expected by some , do you know that we are living in a globalize economy? Have you noticed how the excises on alcohol and tobacco are forever raising? What do you think the reason for this is?
You sort of got what psychosis is right, but I must tell that there are no such thing as permanent psychosis, not even chronic, psychosis is a symptom of a mental illness.
The cost that I refer to is the cost of policing it moderate user, and been a drug of addiction that develops tolerance in it uses, they need more of the substance to get the same effects that they initially got. Nicotine is a good example of this, chain smoker progress to that stage gradually, how many cigarette smoker do you know that stay on a couple of cigarettes a day for long?

 

[Stellify]

Stellify.
Just two points on this issue, first: on the medicinal use of HTC I posted some information on Dronabinol “Dronabinol was approved by the government in 1985 for treating the nausea produced by chemotherapy in cancer patients. In 1992 it was approved for prescription to people with AIDS to stimulate appetite and combat weight loss ( you said that it was use to suppress appetite)” so if you are affected by any of these conditions, we the opponent of the legalization of marijuana mean you no harm nor are we doing you any, the cost of controlling it limited use was already made, a registry was established and doctor must instruct their patient not to drive or operate machinery, but this isn’t what this is about, this is about the use of this drug as recreational, to get stoned,

I said that in some countries that marijuana is considered an appetite suppressant. My comment was not intended to incite an argument about whether or not it technically causes that. I was simply citing an interesting fact that has to do with the effects of the drug versus the common cultural expectations of what the drug will do. You know, like the placebo effect?
And I was also talking in the context of the general population, not chemo patients or people suffering from AIDS. Of course drugs affect AIDS patients differently than non-AIDS paitents

I am from an earlier generation so I did not even experimented with the staff, however I did experimented with alcohol so I know what been out of control is, the initial euphoria followed by depression, the laughter then tears, the friendliness fallowed by anger, the embraces followed brawling, I saw my intelligent friends acting like complete morons, those that I admired for their hight standards descend to the lowest level of morality, loosing their judgement, not been able to make the difference between right and wrong, I was a participant in this great evil so a know that adding another will make the situation worst, do you know that this drug is commonly used in conjunction with alcohol? It seems like they are twins.

Alcohol is NOT the same as marijuana. The effects are vastly different.
Alcohol is commonly used in conjunction with most drugs. It does not mean that those drugs and alcohol cause the same reaction. Marijuana and alcohol are NOT twins are are really not comparable in terms of how much violence they induce. As I cited in an earlier post, marijuana has more of a mellowing effect in situations where there is likely to be interpersonal conflict, whereas alcohol is much more likely to cause tempers to flare.
This comparison argument you are making is more or less completely invalid, imo. Although feel free to show me how it is applicable to the legalization argument.

On the economical wind fall expected by some , do you know that we are living in a globalize economy? Have you noticed how the excises on alcohol and tobacco are forever raising? What do you think the reason for this is?
You sort of got what psychosis is right, but I must tell that there are no such thing as permanent psychosis, not even chronic, psychosis is a symptom of a mental illness.

I know what psychosis is. It's an impaired contact with reality. It is also commonly used to refer to a number of mental disorders, since they involve psychosis as one of their symptoms.
There are some people who exhibit psychotic symptoms until the day they die. Are you trying to tell me that isn't permanent? Particular psychotic episodes may come and go, but that doesn't mean the underlying mental disorder is gone.
I don't get why you're arguing this point...? Please explain what this has to do with the legalization of marijuana. I'm not understanding.

The cost that I refer to is the cost of policing it moderate user, and been a drug of addiction that develops tolerance in it uses, they need more of the substance to get the same effects that they initially got. Nicotine is a good example of this, chain smoker progress to that stage gradually, how many cigarette smoker do you know that stay on a couple of cigarettes a day for long?

But policing the drug NOW is even more expensive.
Or, if people need to buy more and more due to tolerance, that puts money into the economy and to the government via taxes. Where's the bad side?
With marijuana tolerance, it goes away fairly quickly. A heavy user can stop smoking for a few days, or a week or two, and their tolerance will go down to almost pre-smoking level.
And because marijuana isn't physically addictive, it's not as though they will physically "need" the drug, and therefore be unable to wait for the tolerance to go down.
Actually, with the buildup of THC in the fatty tissue of the body, it can sometimes have a compounding effect. Because the drug stays in the system longer, people who use it can get the "high" feeling faster if they smoke multiple times within a short period because the new THC being introduced into the system is added to the THC already there.

So the tolerance thing is really a non-issue, imo.

 

[gnomon]

The cost that I refer to is the cost of policing it moderate user, and been a drug of addiction that develops tolerance in it uses, they need more of the substance to get the same effects that they initially got. Nicotine is a good example of this, chain smoker progress to that stage gradually, how many cigarette smoker do you know that stay on a couple of cigarettes a day for long?

Do you have any idea about the costs of U.S. drug policy?

Have you kept up with the escalation of the cartel related violence in Mexico as a direct result of Mexico's crackdown on drugs as well as our involvement?

Do you wonder why leaders of South American nations are speaking out against U.S. drug policy?

Because it costs too much money and too many lives to keep the ignorant happy that joe public will be locked up for consuming a drug.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Alcohol is NOT the same as marijuana. The effects are vastly different.
Alcohol is commonly used in conjunction with most drugs. It does not mean that those drugs and alcohol cause the same reaction. Marijuana and alcohol are NOT twins are are really not comparable in terms of how much violence they induce. As I cited in an earlier post, marijuana has more of a mellowing effect in situations where there is likely to be interpersonal conflict, whereas alcohol is much more likely to cause tempers to flare.
This comparison argument you are making is more or less completely invalid, imo. Although feel free to show me how it is applicable to the legalization argument.

Hehehe...

"Dude..... you're a moron."
"Yeah, well **** you, buddy, wanna take this outside?"
"uhh.... "
*s*******
"Dude... what... uhh... what were we arguing about?"
"Umm... I don't know, dude..."
*uncontrolled giggling*

Of all the people I know that have used marijuana, the vast majority prefer either marijuana OR alcohol, saying it alcohol ruins the marijuana high. I see no link whatsoever between alcohol and marijuana use.

 

[emiliano]

Ok, so you think that alcohol and marijuana affects it user in a different way , since I never touch the staff a I’ll give a list of the effect of it according to a pamphlet that we use to educate patients with co-dependency, first the effect for small amount assuming that this is what you are talking about :
Feel unusually well and happy
Do and say things which you normally wouldn’t (impaired judgement)
Talk and laugh more than usual
Have bad balance and co-ordination
Find it hard to concentrate
Feel hungry
Have are faster heart rate
Have red eyes
Focus on one particular thing and ignore all other
All of this happen when we stat drinking alcohol, they so similar and the reason is simple both these drug act on the CNS thus impairing judgement and co-ordination. All of them undesirable.
Nor to the large amounts and remembering tolerance and addiction that will inevitably will come to them, they need more of the drug to get stoned.
Feel confused
Feel exited
See or hear things which are not there
Feel anxious or panicky
Feel distance or separated from reality
Can also caused problems with: remembering things
Thinking clearly
movement
Ability to do things like drive or operate machinery
These symptoms usually disappear when the effects of marijuana wears off, however there is more.
Long term effects
An increase in the risk of getting bronchitis, lung cancer and other deseases of the respiratory system.
A decease in motivation
A decease in concentration, memory and ability to learn new things.
A decease in sex drive.
A decease in sperm count o in men.
Irregular menstrual cycle in women.
Some people may have psychological effects. This is more likely if the person already has a schizophrenic condition.
I have not interpreted any of this, this is the information that we are given, that we distribute to all that are interested and also helps us to decide when consulted in referendums, our response to the lobbyists can a only be one, wait sonny, wait, after all there are people out there that wait for hell to freeze over so wait!
To end this. Dependency:
Headaches
Nausea
Irritation and Depression.

 

[Stellify]

Hehehe...

"Dude..... you're a moron."
"Yeah, well **** you, buddy, wanna take this outside?"
"uhh.... "
*s*******
"Dude... what... uhh... what were we arguing about?"
"Umm... I don't know, dude..."
*uncontrolled giggling*

Of all the people I know that have used marijuana, the vast majority prefer either marijuana OR alcohol, saying it alcohol ruins the marijuana high. I see no link whatsoever between alcohol and marijuana use.

:biglaugh:
Frubals

 

[Stellify]

Ok, so you think that alcohol and marijuana affects it user in a different way , since I never touch the staff a I’ll give a list of the effect of it according to a pamphlet that we use to educate patients with co-dependency, first the effect for small amount assuming that this is what you are talking about :
Feel unusually well and happy
Do and say things which you normally wouldn’t (impaired judgement)
Talk and laugh more than usual
Have bad balance and co-ordination
Find it hard to concentrate
Feel hungry
Have are faster heart rate
Have red eyes
Focus on one particular thing and ignore all other
All of this happen when we stat drinking alcohol, they so similar and the reason is simple both these drug act on the CNS thus impairing judgement and co-ordination. All of them undesirable.

Not all of this happens when you start drinking alcohol.
And just because the two are similar in that they effect your CNS doesn't mean they affect you the same way.
ie: Judgment may be impaired in both, but with THC, the impairment is going to go towards the pacifistic way of things, and will alcohol the impairment is more likely to go towards violence.
WAY different.
MANY drugs effect the CNS. You can't compare the two simply because of that.
That's like saying crack and a relatively harmless SSRI like paroxetine are the same because they both effect the CNS. It makes no sense.

Nor to the large amounts and remembering tolerance and addiction that will inevitably will come to them, they need more of the drug to get stoned.
Feel confused
Feel exited
See or hear things which are not there
Feel anxious or panicky
Feel distance or separated from reality
Can also caused problems with: remembering things
Thinking clearly
movement
Ability to do things like drive or operate machinery
These symptoms usually disappear when the effects of marijuana wears off, however there is more.

As I said in my previous post, tolerance to marijuana EASILY goes down. Every pothead I've ever encountered has known this and used it to their advantage.

Long term effects
An increase in the risk of getting bronchitis, lung cancer and other deseases of the respiratory system.
A decease in motivation
A decease in concentration, memory and ability to learn new things.
A decease in sex drive.
A decease in sperm count o in men.
Irregular menstrual cycle in women.
Some people may have psychological effects. This is more likely if the person already has a schizophrenic condition.
I have not interpreted any of this, this is the information that we are given, that we distribute to all that are interested and also helps us to decide when consulted in referendums, our response to the lobbyists can a only be one, wait sonny, wait, after all there are people out there that wait for hell to freeze over so wait!
To end this. Dependency:
Headaches
Nausea
Irritation and Depression.

As far as drugs go, the long-term effects aren't bad compared to a lot of prescription medications out there, and marijuana doesn't carry the same physiological addiction that many other drugs do, to top it off.

You yourself said that people who are already schizophrenic display psychological effects. Doesn't that kind of go against your own argument? That's like my bipolar friend who likes to do X. Well freakin' DUH it triggers manic and depressive episodes in bipolars! Sheesh. People with mental disorders are going to be more susceptible to increased issues with drug use. That's kind of common sense. We're talking about the general populace here.
As far as you pamphlets go, they are only so relevant...pamphlets like that are usually biased, and can still be proven wrong. Remember Reefer Madness? Yeah. I want peer-reviewed, tested, reliable resources. Pamphlets have no requirements like that, as far as I know. I could write a pamphlet and distribute it, as long as I didn't claim to be a source that I'm not.

As I said, marijuana isn't physically addictive. It can be psychologically addictive, but not physically. There's a huge difference. And the effects aren't any worse (and possibly even better) than caffeine withdrawal symptoms.

Lastly, I would like to see a citation that proves that long-term marijuana use is the cause of a decrease in motivation and not just an associated risk. Could you provide that, please?

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could.
-William F. Buckley Jr.

 

[Luminous]

 

[emiliano]

I wouldn't suspect that legalisation of marijuana would greatly increase the number of road-users under it's influence.

What make you think that? If marijuana smoking is legalised, it user won't have to smoke in private and secrets hideouts , it would be done in public places such bar, large public gathering, people would have to travel long distances to get to this gatherings that would offcourse offer a side show, then it would be time to drive back, how responsible is a person that has his/her judgement impaired?

In fact, I would venture that those who do drive under it's influence already would be about the only ones that do it, regardless of it's legality.

Another joke, right?

Of course, this is pure speculation, but those people that don't use it purely because it is illegal would be those more tended towards responsible use, including not "smoking and driving".As for police hours?

Not only extra man-hours but equipment, and again I ask you. How responsible is person that has altered his though process with a drug?

Much less time would be spent in trying to get rid of the stuff, and more time and effort could be spent in harder drugs which have a much more detrimental effect on society and individuals.

That is were we disagree, marijuana is a drug that alters the CNS of it user, their ability to think clearly and is a dangerous drug for that reason and it is as detrimental to society as any other drug that alters the mind.

 

[Stellify]

That is were we disagree, marijuana is a drug that alters the CNS of it user, their ability to think clearly and is a dangerous drug for that reason and it is as detrimental to society as any other drug that alters the mind.

...Most drugs mess with the CNS. That's why they're given to people.

....By your reasoning, that would indicate that SSRIs, quetiapine/seroquel and other such drugs are harmful and detrimental to society.
...which is kind of ludicrous. :areyoucra

 

[emiliano]

Do you have any idea about the costs of U.S. drug policy?

Have you kept up with the escalation of the cartel related violence in Mexico as a direct result of Mexico's crackdown on drugs as well as our involvement?

Do you wonder why leaders of South American nations are speaking out against U.S. drug policy?

Because it costs too much money and too many lives to keep the ignorant happy that joe public will be locked up for consuming a drug.

This is just a negotiating strategy of these government to obtain financial support from the US, they have benefited from this trade for years, they want more money from the US that’s all, this is never going to stop till our youth is educate on the danger of impairing your thought process, that is were the money should go, education not into turning this onto a government run operation. The problem is not the producing or existence of this plant, the problem is the lack of control that the youth of our countries have over their lust for pleasure, prescribing themselves a drug for a dolence that they don’t have is lunacy, using the argument that it has some therapeutic properties, I just don’t know what to say, what can you say?
What they think of US plolices? Very little.:shout

 

[emiliano]

...Most drugs mess with the CNS. That's why they're given to people.

....By your reasoning, that would indicate that SSRIs, quetiapine/seroquel and other such drugs are harmful and detrimental to society.
...which is kind of ludicrous. :areyoucra

They are use as last resort, and have horrible side effects, ask your friend on medication. Why would a person that has not have a mental illness submit themselves to this? By the way bipolar is the sadest of mental illness.

 

[Stellify]

They are use as last resort, and have horrible side effects, ask your friend on medication. Why would a person that has not have a mental illness submit themselves to this? By the way bipolar is the sadest of mental illness.

I don't know what kind of hospital you work it, but SSRI's are not used as a last resort, and many don't have any severe side effects at all in a majority of users. They're given out as prescriptions fairly often. I don't have any clue where you got the idea they're used as a last resort :areyoucra

Which friend on medication? I don't recall mentioning any friend of mine being on medication in this thread :sarcastic

I didn't say people without mental illness would subject themselves to it. You said that drugs are dangerous and harmful because they effect the CNS, I was making a counter-argument that a ton of drugs out there effect the CNS. Many are prescribed for that very reason. Therefore your argument isn't a very good one.
What does your opinion on bipolar disorder have to do with anything in this thread? If you would like to discuss which mental illness is the worst, feel free to start another thread. I'm sure plenty would be willing to debate with you.

 

[emiliano]

Not all of this happens when you start drinking alcohol.

Yes it does, the fist state is one of euphoria

And just because the two are similar in that they effect your CNS doesn't mean they affect you the same way.

Look! is the same: Balance and judgement.

ie: Judgment may be impaired in both, but with THC, the impairment is going to go towards the pacifistic way of things, and will alcohol the impairment is more likely to go towards violence.

This is false, it depend on the predisposition of the subject.
WAY different.
Not at all, if a person uses alcohol or marijuana because is up set the result is the same, acts that the subject would not normally take, if is to celebrate something they both enhance the occasion

MANY drugs effect the CNS. You can't compare the two simply because of that.
That's like saying crack and a relatively harmless SSRI like paroxetine are the same because they both effect the CNS. It makes no sense.

As I said in my previous post, tolerance to marijuana EASILY goes down. Every pothead I've ever encountered has known this and used it to their advantage.

As far as drugs go, the long-term effects aren't bad compared to a lot of prescription medications out there, and marijuana doesn't carry the same physiological addiction that many other drugs do, to top it off.

You yourself said that people who are already schizophrenic display psychological effects. Doesn't that kind of go against your own argument? That's like my bipolar friend who likes to do X. Well freakin' DUH it triggers manic and depressive episodes in bipolars! Sheesh. People with mental disorders are going to be more susceptible to increased issues with drug use. That's kind of common sense. We're talking about the general populace here.

Bipolar is the saddest of mental illness, we give then downers when they are elevated and upper when they are severely depressed, we protect them from promiscuity and excessive expending when they are high and encourage them to go out and meet people, to have fun when they are down, to go shopping.

As far as you pamphlets go, they are only so relevant...pamphlets like that are usually biased, and can still be proven wrong. Remember Reefer Madness? Yeah. I want peer-reviewed, tested, reliable resources. Pamphlets have no requirements like that, as far as I know. I could write a pamphlet and distribute it, as long as I didn't claim to be a source that I'm not.
As I said, marijuana isn't physically addictive. It can be psychologically addictive, but not physically. There's a huge difference. And the effects aren't any worse (and possibly even better) than caffeine withdrawal symptoms.

These pamphlets are put out n by the New South Wales health service, that employs researchers. doctors, psychiatrist and psychologist, in other words people that have authority in this field. I told you that my view could be biased I am an employee of this service.

Lastly, I would like to see a citation that proves that long-term marijuana use is the cause of a decrease in motivation and not just an associated risk. Could you provide that, please?[/quote

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No cause it is biased

 

[emiliano]

I don't know what kind of hospital you work it, but SSRI's are not used as a last resort, and many don't have any severe side effects at all in a majority of users. They're given out as prescriptions fairly often. I don't have any clue where you got the idea they're used as a last resort :areyoucra

Which friend on medication? I don't recall mentioning any friend of mine being on medication in this thread :sarcastic

I didn't say people without mental illness would subject themselves to it. You said that drugs are dangerous and harmful because they effect the CNS, I was making a counter-argument that a ton of drugs out there effect the CNS. Many are prescribed for that very reason. Therefore your argument isn't a very good one.
What does your opinion on bipolar disorder have to do with anything in this thread? If you would like to discuss which mental illness is the worst, feel free to start another thread. I'm sure plenty would be willing to debate with you.

Sorry I though that you said that you have a friend with bipolar. Well in the absence of that, ask a person that is on treatment with psychotropic, the regular blood test that they have to go through and the reasons for them, the amount of laxatives that they have to take, the anti-acids, the pills to regulate their blood pressure, they are on no less than four other medications that are just to ease the side effect of the psychotropic, to end this my advice is: don’t mess with your brain, there are severe consequences in doing so .