Legalize Marijuana?

[DallasApple]

It should be legalized..

Love

Dallas

 

[lamplighter]

Really? I hadn't heard about that. For purely medical/therapeutical uses, or recreational as well?

...An argument a friend of mine brought up was that legalization of marijuana could make the area in which it is legalized a bit...well, trashy is basically what they were getting at. They brought up Amsterdam's current atmosphere, but I've never been, so I really have no idea if that part of the argument was valid. However:
Has anyone noticed similar patterns? Such as in areas that allow the sale of alcohol (wet counties) vs. areas that don't (dry counties)? Higher crime rates, poorer demographic, etc?
Personally, I'm all for legalization. Although, of course, with some kind of restrictions on sales to minors, taxes, etc.

I've never been to Amsterdam, but I've heard their crime wasn't any worse than any other major city like LA. As far as dry counties go the only ones I've ever seen were tiny little backwoods places with populations of like 2,000, so it's hard to say, although they do have a problem with meth in all of those counties. So I don't think crime is any less than a similar sized county, and I always see people from dry counties at the casinos here, so I would say it probably increases drunk driving ironically.

 

[Storm]

I've never been to Amsterdam, but I've heard their crime wasn't any worse than any other major city like LA. As far as dry counties go the only ones I've ever seen were tiny little backwoods places with populations of like 2,000, so it's hard to say, although they do have a problem with meth in all of those counties. So I don't think crime is any less than a similar sized county, and I always see people from dry counties at the casinos here, so I would say it probably increases drunk driving ironically.

I'm from Lubbock, the largest dry county in the country. Yeah, drunk driving was a HUGE problem.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I have to say that marijuana is not legalized in Denver, Colorado. Are there street shops selling marijuan in Denver? Are there growers in Denver?

Eating potato chips is a legal action. So far.

What areas such as Denver, Colorado and more recently in Massachussetts do is decriminalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana for personal consumption. This does not prohibit eventual legal action taken against someone possessing small amounts of marijuana from the state. All Denver did was add legislation stating that it would be illegal for any person under the age of 21 to possess one ounce or less of marijuana.

I still see no legal protection to those who grow and distribute the drug in the laws of these municipalities. Even Sarah Palin backed the continuation of decriminalized personal possession of small amounts of marijuana when she ran for Governor.

Not to dismiss the efforts made in Denver but just to point out that technically speaking, and in the Drug War tehcnicalities are huge, I know of no government in the United States that has legalized marijuana. In other words, allowed for the manufacture, distribution, possession and use of marijuana.

The best step that can be taken, other than the state laws allowing for the medical use of marijuana which is a huge positive gain in this nation for individual medical treatment, is for the DEA to reschedule marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule III or better yet Schedule IV. Hell, there are Schedule IV drugs with more deleterious effects on the human body than marijuana. Anybody can request a resceduling of a controlled substance. A request from the POTUS would probably be a gauranteed success as long as it wasn't to extreme, which rescheduling marijuana wouldn't, and the DEA relies upon the Executive branch for their jobs.

Marijuana Research: Rescheduling Petition, Introduction to Scientific Reviews, Legal Context

Here's some information on the ongoing petition to reschedule marijuana. However, simply rescheduling the drug does nothing to alter the federal criminal code as far as I know. What rescheduling may do is remove the federal emphasis on enforcing marijuana laws. With a shift in emphasis would come a halt to further draconian federal legislation that both major parties, and I hate to say it, even the incoming adminsistration seem to favor.

At a time when the drug war is about to explode on our Southern border and a worsening situation in Mexico regarding drug cartels a new solution must be found to the wider issues around drug policy.

Considering that we had one of the longest presidential campaigns in history with massive mantras of change from both sides the fact that drug policy failed to surface with its strong attendant implications regarding civil rights shows the outright failure of the last elections of the American public to understand basic civics.

Should we legalize marijuana? There are good arguments for it but if we keep electing the same garbage that got back in this last time around do not expect anything to happen soon. There are many issues around the concept of legalizing drugs. Until the time comes our elected officials actually do start taking this issue on a more rational note rather than using drug policy to buy emotional votes expect more of this,

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids

DENVER — Residents of the Mile High City have voted to allow adults to possess up to an ounce of marijuana. Authorities, though, said state possession laws will be applied instead.
With 100 percent of precincts reporting early Wednesday, 54 percent, or 56,001 voters, cast ballots for the ordinance, while 46 percent, or 48,632 voters, voted against it.
Under the measure, residents over 21 years old could possess up to an ounce of marijuana.
"We educated voters about the facts that marijuana is less harmful to the user and society than alcohol," said Mason Tvert, campaign organizer for SAFER, or Safer Alternatives For Enjoyable Recreation (search). "To prohibit adults from making the rational, safer choice to use marijuana is bad public policy."
Bruce Mirken of the Washington, D.C.-based Marijuana Policy Project (search) said he hoped the approval will launch a national trend toward legalizing a drug whose enforcement he said causes more problems than it cures.

Seattle, Oakland, Calif., and a few college towns already have laws making possession the lowest law enforcement priority.
The Denver (search) proposal seemed to draw at least as much attention for supporters' campaign tactics as it did for the question of legalizing the drug.
Tvert argued that legalizing marijuana would reduce consumption of alcohol, which he said leads to higher rates of car accidents, domestic and street violence and crime.
The group criticized Mayor John Hickenlooper (search) for opposing the proposal, noting his ownership of a popular brewpub. It also said recent violent crimes -- including the shootings of four people last weekend -- as a reason to legalize marijuana to steer people away from alcohol use.
Those tactics angered local officials and some voters. Opponents also said it made no sense to prevent prosecution by Denver authorities while marijuana charges are most often filed under state and federal law.
The measure would not affect the medical marijuana law voters approved in 2000. In June, the U.S. Supreme Court (search) ruled that medical marijuana laws in Colorado and nine other states would not protect licensed users from federal prosecution.
Also Tuesday, voters in the ski resort town of Telluride rejected a proposal to make possession of an ounce or less of marijuana by people 18 or older the town's lowest law enforcement priority. The measure was rejected on a vote of 308-332.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

**** the police!

 

[Stellify]

I've been to Amsterdam,a bit of an eyeopener,the red light district and porn shops and Mushroom shops,i would rather have their Cafe's than the red light district on my doorstep ,they did have some problems with crime and such so they expelled quite a lot of immigrants.

Thanks Yeah..I'm sure visitors and immigrants who are just there to take advantage of the legalized activities Amsterdam offers would be very detrimental to the area...I think people tend to take poor care of places and things that aren't their own.

I've never been to Amsterdam, but I've heard their crime wasn't any worse than any other major city like LA. As far as dry counties go the only ones I've ever seen were tiny little backwoods places with populations of like 2,000, so it's hard to say, although they do have a problem with meth in all of those counties. So I don't think crime is any less than a similar sized county, and I always see people from dry counties at the casinos here, so I would say it probably increases drunk driving ironically.

I guess the question would be whether or not big cities like LA would be worse about red light districts and such if marijuana was legalized? I kind of doubt it, personally.
Hmmm...Well, I've lived all over Dallas, Tx. It's one of the largest cities in the nation, but it's made up of different counties (Irving, Grapevine, Arlington, Richardson, Carollton, etc) that have their own laws concerning alcohol, and so some parts of the greater Dallas area are dry, some are wet...Right now I'm in Irving, which has been a dry area for a long time, but recently decided to allow the sale of alcohol. The people against this change argued that if we made it legal, our area would start to look like the area right next to us that does sell alcohol (..where we go to buy it, since we couldn't buy it here..)... I think there's a definite difference between the two areas...but that's not to say we don't have our dangerous streets, too :sarcastic
And I haven't heard enough evidence to convince me that the entire causality of the difference between the two areas can be attributed to alcohol sales. But who knows?
As far as drunk driving goes, I think that is a problem...I almost refuse to be out driving when the bars close on weekends

 

[lamplighter]

Well in my experience crime isn't determined by the availability of content like alcohol or porn, but by the income of the people of the area, the lower the income median, the higher the crime rate as more people get desperate to survive. If you want lower crime in America we need to stop sending jobs over seas and stop outsourcing production to other countries as well. People who have money feel less inclined to take things from others, with the exception of Bernard Madoff.

 

[gnomon]

DENVER — Residents of the Mile High City have voted to allow adults to possess up to an ounce of marijuana. Authorities, though, said state possession laws will be applied instead.
With 100 percent of precincts reporting early Wednesday, 54 percent, or 56,001 voters, cast ballots for the ordinance, while 46 percent, or 48,632 voters, voted against it.
Under the measure, residents over 21 years old could possess up to an ounce of marijuana.
"We educated voters about the facts that marijuana is less harmful to the user and society than alcohol," said Mason Tvert, campaign organizer for SAFER, or Safer Alternatives For Enjoyable Recreation (search). "To prohibit adults from making the rational, safer choice to use marijuana is bad public policy."
Bruce Mirken of the Washington, D.C.-based Marijuana Policy Project (search) said he hoped the approval will launch a national trend toward legalizing a drug whose enforcement he said causes more problems than it cures.

Seattle, Oakland, Calif., and a few college towns already have laws making possession the lowest law enforcement priority.
The Denver (search) proposal seemed to draw at least as much attention for supporters' campaign tactics as it did for the question of legalizing the drug.
Tvert argued that legalizing marijuana would reduce consumption of alcohol, which he said leads to higher rates of car accidents, domestic and street violence and crime.
The group criticized Mayor John Hickenlooper (search) for opposing the proposal, noting his ownership of a popular brewpub. It also said recent violent crimes -- including the shootings of four people last weekend -- as a reason to legalize marijuana to steer people away from alcohol use.
Those tactics angered local officials and some voters. Opponents also said it made no sense to prevent prosecution by Denver authorities while marijuana charges are most often filed under state and federal law.
The measure would not affect the medical marijuana law voters approved in 2000. In June, the U.S. Supreme Court (search) ruled that medical marijuana laws in Colorado and nine other states would not protect licensed users from federal prosecution.
Also Tuesday, voters in the ski resort town of Telluride rejected a proposal to make possession of an ounce or less of marijuana by people 18 or older the town's lowest law enforcement priority. The measure was rejected on a vote of 308-332.

That's well and good but what it does not do is legalize marijuana.

As I said, the law does not allow for the manufacture, distribution, or possession of more than an ounce. The blanket statement that marijuana is legalized in Denver, Colorado is false. Cities do not write state criminal laws. All they did was decriminalize the possession of less than an ounce by individuals over the age of 21 within the city which does nothing more than attempt to tell city law enforcement not to place such individuals as a priority.

State law in Colorado holds less than an ounce of marijuana as a petty offense subject to a $100 fine. Use in public is a pretty negligible crime with up to 15 days in jail. That's a pretty lenient policy. Especially compared to Georgia with a maximum $600 find and up to a year in jail.

Here's the Colorado state guidelines;
Colorado - NORML

If one sells less than an ounce of marijuana in Denver and receives money than it is a felony.

I point all this out so people understand that cities taking out ordinances is all well and good but they do not truly have the legal power against state and federal law. Also, that these ordinances only cover one aspect of the issue. In the case of Denver, that being simple possession which was already probably considered a minor nuisance in the first place. But it's all moot since state law and federal law still classify the drug as illegal and citizens in Denver are not free from prosecution for possessing less than an ounce of marijuana.

This local news reports says arrests are up on simple possession by Denver police,
Denver Marijuana Arrests Up Despite New Law - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver

More here,
Colorado Confidential:: Denver Marijuana Arrests Highlight Racial Disparity a Second Time

Legalization supporters wouldn't be focusing on the numbers so much if it wasn't for the fact that Denver voters passed an initiative legalizing personal possession of up to an ounce of the drug for adults 21 years and older in 2005, and another measure to make such cases a "lowest law enforcement priority" for police in 2007.

City officials have consistently held the position that pot is still illegal under state law, which is why police continue to cite violators, but legalization proponents and defense attorneys continue to criticize the Police Department and City Attorney's office for violating what they see as the will of the voters.

True legalization and regulation only comes when the States themselves stand up to the federal government and start legalizing hemp/marijuana. The issue is not only about smoked marijuana but is also about the value of hemp products and the economy as well.

The state of Alaska allows the possession of less than an ounce of marijuana and up to 25 plants in the home. However, the sale of less than an ounce of marijuana is still illegal in the state although I believe it's only a misdemeanor.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

That's well and good but what it does not do is legalize marijuana.

As I said, the law does not allow for the manufacture, distribution, or possession of more than an ounce. The blanket statement that marijuana is legalized in Denver, Colorado is false. Cities do not write state criminal laws. All they did was decriminalize the possession of less than an ounce by individuals over the age of 21 within the city which does nothing more than attempt to tell city law enforcement not to place such individuals as a priority.

State law in Colorado holds less than an ounce of marijuana as a petty offense subject to a $100 fine. Use in public is a pretty negligible crime with up to 15 days in jail. That's a pretty lenient policy. Especially compared to Georgia with a maximum $600 find and up to a year in jail.

Here's the Colorado state guidelines;
Colorado - NORML

If one sells less than an ounce of marijuana in Denver and receives money than it is a felony.

I point all this out so people understand that cities taking out ordinances is all well and good but they do not truly have the legal power against state and federal law. Also, that these ordinances only cover one aspect of the issue. In the case of Denver, that being simple possession which was already probably considered a minor nuisance in the first place. But it's all moot since state law and federal law still classify the drug as illegal and citizens in Denver are not free from prosecution for possessing less than an ounce of marijuana.

This local news reports says arrests are up on simple possession by Denver police,
Denver Marijuana Arrests Up Despite New Law - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver

More here,
Colorado Confidential:: Denver Marijuana Arrests Highlight Racial Disparity a Second Time




True legalization and regulation only comes when the States themselves stand up to the federal government and start legalizing hemp/marijuana. The issue is not only about smoked marijuana but is also about the value of hemp products and the economy as well.

The state of Alaska allows the possession of less than an ounce of marijuana and up to 25 plants in the home. However, the sale of less than an ounce of marijuana is still illegal in the state although I believe it's only a misdemeanor.

I'm aware of the circumstances and actually liked your post. I was just sharing some information. We as a nation have a formidable task ahead of us when it comes to legalizing marijuana. Denver is just trying to rally public awareness and participation. The old saying goes, "legalize marijuana, but we forgot where we put the partition".

 

[gnomon]

I'm aware of the circumstances and actually liked your post. I was just sharing some information. We as a nation have a formidable task ahead of us when it comes to legalizing marijuana. Denver is just trying to rally public awareness and participation. The old saying goes, "legalize marijuana, but we forgot where we put the partition".

I got ya, now! Sorry for the preaching.

There is greater success on local initiatives in regards to medical marijuana/decriminalization. If a number of these continue to pass then perhaps a breaking point can be reached in which States follow suit. If enough States follow the federal government will be left with no other choice. If those states that have current medical marijuana laws on the books took a stronger stand towards the government, such as tossing federal law enforcement officers out of their state, it would speed up the process but I don't see something that dramatic ever happening with this issue.

That's a lot of if's but that once oft heard phrase "it will never happen" is something I have not heard in quite a while. I think the medical marijuana movement and the growing awareness of corruption and abuse by law enforcement regarding drug policy are driving awareness of the issue.

 

[kai]

Cannabis has been reclassified in England and Wales by the government from a Class C to a Class B drug, carrying a higher maximum jail sentence for possession.


Ms Smith said she was particularly concerned over the rise in consumption of super-strength strains of cannabis, such as "skunk". The Home Office say such strains account for 80% of all cannabis seizures in the UK.




BBC NEWS | UK | Debate over cannabis classification

 

[Father Heathen]

There is nothing new or innovative about breeding more potent strains of the plant. People can still just smoke less of stronger stuff, or more of the weaker stuff.

 

[Stellify]

So...I'm taking a Drugs and Behavior class (psych/bio), and my professor brought up something kind of interesting.
With drugs, you can compute what's called the "margin of safety", which is basically a ratio between the "effective dose" (how much it takes to have the desired effect), and the "lethal dose" (how much it takes to kill a person). The margin of safety shows just that: how safe the drug is.

My professor said that alcohol has a margin of safety that's somewhere between 5 and 10.

Marijuana has a margin of safety around 20,000. It's the "safest" drug ever found. The professor said the number may be even higher, depending on new research.

Just found it kinda cool

 

[kai]

There is nothing new or innovative about breeding more potent strains of the plant. People can still just smoke less of stronger stuff, or more of the weaker stuff.

while thats true of the initial try, a regular user would build up a tolerance.

 

[kai]

So...I'm taking a Drugs and Behavior class (psych/bio), and my professor brought up something kind of interesting.
With drugs, you can compute what's called the "margin of safety", which is basically a ratio between the "effective dose" (how much it takes to have the desired effect), and the "lethal dose" (how much it takes to kill a person). The margin of safety shows just that: how safe the drug is.

My professor said that alcohol has a margin of safety that's somewhere between 5 and 10.

Marijuana has a margin of safety around 20,000. It's the "safest" drug ever found. The professor said the number may be even higher, depending on new research.

Just found it kinda cool

that cant be true of ALL cannabis , maybe you could find out for us, in reference to Skunk?

 

[Father Heathen]

while thats true of the initial try, a regular user would build up a tolerance.

Habitual users build up tolerance regardless of the potency of what they smoke, and it only takes a few weeks of non-use for that tolerance to decrease.

 

[DarkSun]

So...I'm taking a Drugs and Behavior class (psych/bio), and my professor brought up something kind of interesting.
With drugs, you can compute what's called the "margin of safety", which is basically a ratio between the "effective dose" (how much it takes to have the desired effect), and the "lethal dose" (how much it takes to kill a person). The margin of safety shows just that: how safe the drug is.

My professor said that alcohol has a margin of safety that's somewhere between 5 and 10.

Marijuana has a margin of safety around 20,000. It's the "safest" drug ever found. The professor said the number may be even higher, depending on new research.

Just found it kinda cool

There are much worse things than death....

All I'm going to say.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

So...I'm taking a Drugs and Behavior class (psych/bio), and my professor brought up something kind of interesting.
With drugs, you can compute what's called the "margin of safety", which is basically a ratio between the "effective dose" (how much it takes to have the desired effect), and the "lethal dose" (how much it takes to kill a person). The margin of safety shows just that: how safe the drug is.

My professor said that alcohol has a margin of safety that's somewhere between 5 and 10.

Marijuana has a margin of safety around 20,000. It's the "safest" drug ever found. The professor said the number may be even higher, depending on new research.

Just found it kinda cool

Sweeeeeeet! :bounce

 

[DarkSun]

There is nothing new or innovative about breeding more potent strains of the plant. People can still just smoke less of stronger stuff, or more of the weaker stuff.

Assuming that the medicinal properties of marijuana actually exist...

There are some people who smoke marijuana for enjoyment, and have actually developed a tolerance. So making THC more readily accessible is not an entirely good thing, since these people will probably abuse it. It would have to be fairly heavily regulated, which defeats the point of using it as a cheap alternative to some other medications on the market.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Assuming that the medicinal properties of marijuana actually exist...

There are some people who smoke marijuana for enjoyment, who have actually developed a tolerance. Making THC more readily accessible is not entirely a good thing, since these people will probably abuse it.

But the great thing about "abusing" weed is that there is no lethal side effect. You either get a headache, pass out, or smoke yourself completely sober (yes).