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Legalize Marijuana?
- Thread starter Yeshua_Lives
- Start date
methylatedghosts
Can't brain. Has dumb.
yeah I recently was told this
For others who don't know -
"illegal" = "illegal in the U.S."
The website owners don't want to come across as promoting illegal activity in the U.S. and get done for it.
I read somewhere that Thomas Jefferson was a Hemp farmer although it was obviously grown for rope etc
stacey bo bacey
oh no you di'int
Mmm, no you were just quick to add "Haven't done it and never will." Sounded to me like you'd be ashamed if you did.
My sincerest apologies for making that assumption.
stacey bo bacey
oh no you di'int
Ah, ok.
stacey bo bacey
oh no you di'int
My friend snapped this in Prague:
Oh, to live overseas.......le sigh.....
Oh, to live overseas.......le sigh.....
lamplighter
Almighty Tallest
I don't know how I missed this thread before but, here goes my 2 cents....
I think people should know why marijuana was made illegal before they make any judgments on it. Regulated in every state by laws instituted through The Uniform State Narcotic Act by the mid 1930's, in 1937 federal legislation was finally passed thanks to DuPont and William Randolph Hearst, requiring that you had a special tax stamp in order to poses or transfer it, to obtain this permission you had to pay and excise tax, a tax that was later deemed unconstitutional in 1969.
But why would DuPont and Mr. Hearst care about marijuana being illegal?
Probably because in 1938 DuPont patented the process to make plastics from coal and oil and paper from wood pulp, DuPont's chief financial backer at the time was Mellon Bank owned by Andrew Mellon who also happened to be the Secretary of Treasury under the Hoover administration. William Hearst was the owner of several major newspapers at the time and had heavy financial interests in the timber industry. Up until this time hemp was the primary source for paper, and the oil from the seeds could also be made into plastics as well, much like corn is used today. (Interesting note: In the same amount of space you could create 4 times the amount of paper and 1/4 or less the pollution using hemp for paper compared to timber in a 20 year period according to the USDA.)
However Marijuana was also made illegal under the pretense that it made you go clinically insane to point that it could cause you to go into a murderous blood lust and kill all of your loved ones. This bit of information started getting spread around the same time jazz became popular in Chicago and Harlem, marijuana was a big part of the jazz culture at the time and so where jazz went so did marijuana. This misinformation began to conceptualize first in 1927 when in the Butte Montana Standard reported a legislator's comment: "When some beet field peon takes a few traces of this stuff (marijuana)... he thinks he has just been elected president of Mexico, so he starts out to execute all his political enemies". In Texas, a senator said on the floor of the Senate: "All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff (marijuana) is what makes them crazy". In the 1931 New Orleans Medical and Surgical Journal: "Under the influence of hashish those fanatics would madly rush at their enemies, and ruthlessly massacre every one within their grasp.", this was in reference to stories Marco Polo told about how a ruler who would give assassins hashish and showed them his gardens giving them a glimpse of paradise and what awaited them upon the completion of a successful mission, however it wasn't until after the hashish had worn off they would dispense to carry out their mission. In 1934 newspapers began to editorialize "Marihuana influences Negroes to look at white people in the eye, step on white men's shadows and look at a white woman twice". Around the same time a young boy of about 15 killed his whole family, looking to get off on a lighter sentence by claiming he was insane at the time he claimed that he did it under the influence of marijuana, and this was the final nail in the coffin in which people like DuPont, William Hearst and Harry J. Anslinger head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics used in their crusade against marijuana.
However despite all this propaganda, in 1939 The LaGuardia Report was commissioned by New York's mayor Fiorello LaGuardia. This medical report was carried out by the New York Academy of Medicine, this infuriated Harry Anslinger, as it completely undermined his whole crusade, and contradicted claims made by the U.S. Treasury Department. In short this report states that marijuana is not the determining factor in the commission of major crimes. The practice of smoking marijuana does not lead to addiction in the medical sense of the word, and it is does not lead to heroine, cocaine, or morphine addiction. It also states that a consensus among marijuana smokers is that the use of the drug creates a definite feeling of adequacy.
Now I would like to also add, when is the last time you heard about a violent pothead beating his wife?
In my opinion alcohol is far worse than marijuana. So why do we have one drug illegal whilst a worse is available at the supermarket?
It seems to me that marijuana smokers were a convenient victim to get rid of competition and to somehow make it seem that the government was putting an end to crime. Should Americans end the criminalization of marijuana we would see a significant reduction in the US prison population. Should Americans decriminalize all drugs, we would free up a significant amount of better used taxpayer money, even if we had to spend millions on health clinics for the recovery of addicts, it would be a fraction of the money we spend now on this so called "War on Drugs" at 40+ billion dollars, and greatly reduce the spread of such horrendous diseases as HIV. So I ask is the money we spend to tear apart families, keep people locked up, and spread disease worth it?
Legal history of cannabis in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
La Guardia Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economic Consequences of the War on Drugs
Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Angel May's Blog: The History Behind Marijuana Prohibition
Also I recommend taking at a look at Marijuana Law Reform - NORML
I think people should know why marijuana was made illegal before they make any judgments on it. Regulated in every state by laws instituted through The Uniform State Narcotic Act by the mid 1930's, in 1937 federal legislation was finally passed thanks to DuPont and William Randolph Hearst, requiring that you had a special tax stamp in order to poses or transfer it, to obtain this permission you had to pay and excise tax, a tax that was later deemed unconstitutional in 1969.
But why would DuPont and Mr. Hearst care about marijuana being illegal?
Probably because in 1938 DuPont patented the process to make plastics from coal and oil and paper from wood pulp, DuPont's chief financial backer at the time was Mellon Bank owned by Andrew Mellon who also happened to be the Secretary of Treasury under the Hoover administration. William Hearst was the owner of several major newspapers at the time and had heavy financial interests in the timber industry. Up until this time hemp was the primary source for paper, and the oil from the seeds could also be made into plastics as well, much like corn is used today. (Interesting note: In the same amount of space you could create 4 times the amount of paper and 1/4 or less the pollution using hemp for paper compared to timber in a 20 year period according to the USDA.)
However Marijuana was also made illegal under the pretense that it made you go clinically insane to point that it could cause you to go into a murderous blood lust and kill all of your loved ones. This bit of information started getting spread around the same time jazz became popular in Chicago and Harlem, marijuana was a big part of the jazz culture at the time and so where jazz went so did marijuana. This misinformation began to conceptualize first in 1927 when in the Butte Montana Standard reported a legislator's comment: "When some beet field peon takes a few traces of this stuff (marijuana)... he thinks he has just been elected president of Mexico, so he starts out to execute all his political enemies". In Texas, a senator said on the floor of the Senate: "All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff (marijuana) is what makes them crazy". In the 1931 New Orleans Medical and Surgical Journal: "Under the influence of hashish those fanatics would madly rush at their enemies, and ruthlessly massacre every one within their grasp.", this was in reference to stories Marco Polo told about how a ruler who would give assassins hashish and showed them his gardens giving them a glimpse of paradise and what awaited them upon the completion of a successful mission, however it wasn't until after the hashish had worn off they would dispense to carry out their mission. In 1934 newspapers began to editorialize "Marihuana influences Negroes to look at white people in the eye, step on white men's shadows and look at a white woman twice". Around the same time a young boy of about 15 killed his whole family, looking to get off on a lighter sentence by claiming he was insane at the time he claimed that he did it under the influence of marijuana, and this was the final nail in the coffin in which people like DuPont, William Hearst and Harry J. Anslinger head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics used in their crusade against marijuana.
However despite all this propaganda, in 1939 The LaGuardia Report was commissioned by New York's mayor Fiorello LaGuardia. This medical report was carried out by the New York Academy of Medicine, this infuriated Harry Anslinger, as it completely undermined his whole crusade, and contradicted claims made by the U.S. Treasury Department. In short this report states that marijuana is not the determining factor in the commission of major crimes. The practice of smoking marijuana does not lead to addiction in the medical sense of the word, and it is does not lead to heroine, cocaine, or morphine addiction. It also states that a consensus among marijuana smokers is that the use of the drug creates a definite feeling of adequacy.
Now I would like to also add, when is the last time you heard about a violent pothead beating his wife?
In my opinion alcohol is far worse than marijuana. So why do we have one drug illegal whilst a worse is available at the supermarket?
It seems to me that marijuana smokers were a convenient victim to get rid of competition and to somehow make it seem that the government was putting an end to crime. Should Americans end the criminalization of marijuana we would see a significant reduction in the US prison population. Should Americans decriminalize all drugs, we would free up a significant amount of better used taxpayer money, even if we had to spend millions on health clinics for the recovery of addicts, it would be a fraction of the money we spend now on this so called "War on Drugs" at 40+ billion dollars, and greatly reduce the spread of such horrendous diseases as HIV. So I ask is the money we spend to tear apart families, keep people locked up, and spread disease worth it?
Legal history of cannabis in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
La Guardia Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economic Consequences of the War on Drugs
Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Angel May's Blog: The History Behind Marijuana Prohibition
Also I recommend taking at a look at Marijuana Law Reform - NORML
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methylatedghosts
Can't brain. Has dumb.
I think you're right, lamplighter.
If marijuana was to be made legal and the fibres were to be used for all these things you list, many people would lose alot of money. There's a huge amount of money to be lost, nothing anyone really likes doing if they like their incomes
If marijuana was to be made legal and the fibres were to be used for all these things you list, many people would lose alot of money. There's a huge amount of money to be lost, nothing anyone really likes doing if they like their incomes
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
I think you're right, lamplighter.
If marijuana was to be made legal and the fibres were to be used for all these things you list, many people would lose alot of money. There's a huge amount of money to be lost, nothing anyone really likes doing if they like their incomes
It still need to be legalized. Denver Colorado has legalized marijuana.
methylatedghosts
Can't brain. Has dumb.
No, I agree with you. I would like it legalised, or minimally, decriminalised.
There are much better things that police hours can be spent on.
Many people will try this drug at least once. Last statistic I recall was more than 50% of people over 18 have tried it at least once I think.
The difficulty with getting it legalised is the huge opposition from the money
There are much better things that police hours can be spent on.
Many people will try this drug at least once. Last statistic I recall was more than 50% of people over 18 have tried it at least once I think.
The difficulty with getting it legalised is the huge opposition from the money
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The forum rules are based in America, I'm still assuming Texas (or Louisiana, I don't remember) since that is were the forum founder lives.
In Massachusetts though, marijuana is now a civil offense, carrying a fine of up to $100 for possession.
Voters approve marijuana law change - The Boston Globe
The day marijuana will be fully legalized is nearing. Unfortunately though, federal agents and the DEA can still arrest for possession, as it is still against federal law.
lamplighter
Almighty Tallest
I think you're right, lamplighter.
If marijuana was to be made legal and the fibres were to be used for all these things you list, many people would lose alot of money. There's a huge amount of money to be lost, nothing anyone really likes doing if they like their incomes
I don't understand what you're getting at. At what point did I say anyone would lose money if it was legalized now? DuPont made it illegal because they stood to make money at the time, but that was almost a century ago. Now if it was legalized, people might have a chance to MAKE money since according to the United States Department of Agriculture's study hemp would produce more paper in the same amount of area than growing timber, it was just that back then when DuPont registered their patent, the US had hundreds of miles of virgin forest to plunder, but not so much anymore. And don't you think DuPont would've been working on making timber into paper before their crusade to make marijuana illegal, not to mention patents just don't happen over night and take time to get processed?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I would like to add to this, on History Channel's (?) show Hooked: Illegal Drugs and How they got that Way, it mentioned this, and then said some doctor said there was less than a 1% chance the marijuana did cause the attack.
Refer Madness is a hilarious movie everyone should watch at least once. And the sad thing is, "Tell Your Children" is what the government wanted people to believe about marijuana. I have yet to see one pothead tweak out harder than the most addicted of meth or crack heads though.
LOL i have seen Reefer Madness,it is funny
lamplighter
Almighty Tallest
Is that what the cops were watching at the convention in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?
Stellify
StarChild
Really? I hadn't heard about that. For purely medical/therapeutical uses, or recreational as well?
...An argument a friend of mine brought up was that legalization of marijuana could make the area in which it is legalized a bit...well, trashy is basically what they were getting at. They brought up Amsterdam's current atmosphere, but I've never been, so I really have no idea if that part of the argument was valid. However:
Has anyone noticed similar patterns? Such as in areas that allow the sale of alcohol (wet counties) vs. areas that don't (dry counties)? Higher crime rates, poorer demographic, etc?
Personally, I'm all for legalization. Although, of course, with some kind of restrictions on sales to minors, taxes, etc.
Really? I hadn't heard about that. For purely medical/therapeutical uses, or recreational as well?
...An argument a friend of mine brought up was that legalization of marijuana could make the area in which it is legalized a bit...well, trashy is basically what they were getting at. They brought up Amsterdam's current atmosphere, but I've never been, so I really have no idea if that part of the argument was valid. However:
Has anyone noticed similar patterns? Such as in areas that allow the sale of alcohol (wet counties) vs. areas that don't (dry counties)? Higher crime rates, poorer demographic, etc?
Personally, I'm all for legalization. Although, of course, with some kind of restrictions on sales to minors, taxes, etc.
I've been to Amsterdam,a bit of an eyeopener,the red light district and porn shops and Mushroom shops,i would rather have their Cafe's than the red light district on my doorstep ,they did have some problems with crime and such so they expelled quite a lot of immigrants.
leahrachelle
Active Member
yes because it doesnt hurt anyone but themself. unlike cigarettes and alcohol.
i guess i can see how it could possibly but it doesnt pollute and it doesnt make you have destructive behavior.
i guess i can see how it could possibly but it doesnt pollute and it doesnt make you have destructive behavior.
gnomon
Well-Known Member
I have to say that marijuana is not legalized in Denver, Colorado. Are there street shops selling marijuan in Denver? Are there growers in Denver?
Eating potato chips is a legal action. So far.
What areas such as Denver, Colorado and more recently in Massachussetts do is decriminalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana for personal consumption. This does not prohibit eventual legal action taken against someone possessing small amounts of marijuana from the state. All Denver did was add legislation stating that it would be illegal for any person under the age of 21 to possess one ounce or less of marijuana.
I still see no legal protection to those who grow and distribute the drug in the laws of these municipalities. Even Sarah Palin backed the continuation of decriminalized personal possession of small amounts of marijuana when she ran for Governor.
Not to dismiss the efforts made in Denver but just to point out that technically speaking, and in the Drug War tehcnicalities are huge, I know of no government in the United States that has legalized marijuana. In other words, allowed for the manufacture, distribution, possession and use of marijuana.
The best step that can be taken, other than the state laws allowing for the medical use of marijuana which is a huge positive gain in this nation for individual medical treatment, is for the DEA to reschedule marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule III or better yet Schedule IV. Hell, there are Schedule IV drugs with more deleterious effects on the human body than marijuana. Anybody can request a resceduling of a controlled substance. A request from the POTUS would probably be a gauranteed success as long as it wasn't to extreme, which rescheduling marijuana wouldn't, and the DEA relies upon the Executive branch for their jobs.
Marijuana Research: Rescheduling Petition, Introduction to Scientific Reviews, Legal Context
Here's some information on the ongoing petition to reschedule marijuana. However, simply rescheduling the drug does nothing to alter the federal criminal code as far as I know. What rescheduling may do is remove the federal emphasis on enforcing marijuana laws. With a shift in emphasis would come a halt to further draconian federal legislation that both major parties, and I hate to say it, even the incoming adminsistration seem to favor.
At a time when the drug war is about to explode on our Southern border and a worsening situation in Mexico regarding drug cartels a new solution must be found to the wider issues around drug policy.
Considering that we had one of the longest presidential campaigns in history with massive mantras of change from both sides the fact that drug policy failed to surface with its strong attendant implications regarding civil rights shows the outright failure of the last elections of the American public to understand basic civics.
Should we legalize marijuana? There are good arguments for it but if we keep electing the same garbage that got back in this last time around do not expect anything to happen soon. There are many issues around the concept of legalizing drugs. Until the time comes our elected officials actually do start taking this issue on a more rational note rather than using drug policy to buy emotional votes expect more of this,
Botched Paramilitary Police Raids
Eating potato chips is a legal action. So far.
What areas such as Denver, Colorado and more recently in Massachussetts do is decriminalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana for personal consumption. This does not prohibit eventual legal action taken against someone possessing small amounts of marijuana from the state. All Denver did was add legislation stating that it would be illegal for any person under the age of 21 to possess one ounce or less of marijuana.
I still see no legal protection to those who grow and distribute the drug in the laws of these municipalities. Even Sarah Palin backed the continuation of decriminalized personal possession of small amounts of marijuana when she ran for Governor.
Not to dismiss the efforts made in Denver but just to point out that technically speaking, and in the Drug War tehcnicalities are huge, I know of no government in the United States that has legalized marijuana. In other words, allowed for the manufacture, distribution, possession and use of marijuana.
The best step that can be taken, other than the state laws allowing for the medical use of marijuana which is a huge positive gain in this nation for individual medical treatment, is for the DEA to reschedule marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule III or better yet Schedule IV. Hell, there are Schedule IV drugs with more deleterious effects on the human body than marijuana. Anybody can request a resceduling of a controlled substance. A request from the POTUS would probably be a gauranteed success as long as it wasn't to extreme, which rescheduling marijuana wouldn't, and the DEA relies upon the Executive branch for their jobs.
Marijuana Research: Rescheduling Petition, Introduction to Scientific Reviews, Legal Context
Here's some information on the ongoing petition to reschedule marijuana. However, simply rescheduling the drug does nothing to alter the federal criminal code as far as I know. What rescheduling may do is remove the federal emphasis on enforcing marijuana laws. With a shift in emphasis would come a halt to further draconian federal legislation that both major parties, and I hate to say it, even the incoming adminsistration seem to favor.
At a time when the drug war is about to explode on our Southern border and a worsening situation in Mexico regarding drug cartels a new solution must be found to the wider issues around drug policy.
Considering that we had one of the longest presidential campaigns in history with massive mantras of change from both sides the fact that drug policy failed to surface with its strong attendant implications regarding civil rights shows the outright failure of the last elections of the American public to understand basic civics.
Should we legalize marijuana? There are good arguments for it but if we keep electing the same garbage that got back in this last time around do not expect anything to happen soon. There are many issues around the concept of legalizing drugs. Until the time comes our elected officials actually do start taking this issue on a more rational note rather than using drug policy to buy emotional votes expect more of this,
Botched Paramilitary Police Raids