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Legalize Prostitution?

Should prostitution be legalized?


  • Total voters
    93

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Give me a 21 year old that has no history of childhood physical or sexual abuse..Who has a high school or equivelant under her/or his belt..That is clean and sober not under the infulence of any brain altering drugs..With no mental disorder diagnosis such as bi-poloar,schitzophrenia or any major affective disorders(unless its completely stabalized with proper medication)..That is full well informed about the risk involved and how to protect themsleves against sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies..That decides they want to use their God given natural sexuality as a business opportunity..protect them under the same laws as any other woman/man as far as rape and battery so she/he can report this if it occurs at no risk of being prosected for prostitution..get the damn national guard in if you have to in every city for however long it takes to irradicate the blanking pimps.Let her/him be considered a sole proprietership(self employed) on her taxes and pay into social security...Designate an area in a "safe" part of the city thats has efficient police support but "away" from neighborhoods and schools. Allow her/him to advertise with some restrictions as to language. In the yellow pages and via the internet..And I say go for it sweetheart its none of my business and I wish you joy and abundance and keep safe..I am not a judge or jury Im a human being that hurts when another is beign exploited and is suffering greatly and no one seems to see the carnage going on right in front of us and the tremendous human suffering.Its better to believe that they are doing what they want to do and if not so what most of us dont "like' our jobs.

Blessings

Dallas

Dallas, I share your sentiments. It might seem that prostitutes "want" to do what they're doing, but in most cases, people who were sexually abused as children end up becoming promiscuous as adults and "want" to engage in lots of sexual activity. Considering the underlying cause I wouldn't consider it healthy for such people to continue such behaviour.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
P.S I hope its clear now Im not legislating "morality" only in a sense I think we shoudlnt treat human being like pieces of sex meat because they are sitting ducks from the get go.Paid for or OTHERWISE...I feel bad for girls that had sex "not really wanting to" for FREE to...I was ONE OF them..I got "tricked" or "tricked" myself into giving guys sex and then was discarded like so much trash...The difference is though I had more choices..I was emotioanally unstable and longing to be loved it wasnt for money..But the preditors were out there ready to "help me out"...I was also molested at 5 by two older boys...My father died when I was 4..My step father wasnt "allowed' to be my dad..So I had the "father figure" syndrome and abandonment fears and had been sexually objectivfied as a kindergartner. which is EXCACTLY what drew the guys to me later who then did exactlay that..Got in my pants pretending they liked me and then said GOODBYE...Twice rape was threatened. My first time was technically rape (date rape) he wouldnt stop after I said no.. I was pregnant at 14 and had a premature baby.(the father who ironically Im married to now ran off said he had dreams and goals in life and took off for two years my parents had to sue him for paternity he denied fatherhood) I tried t kill myself ended up locked up for two months in a crazy ward ..had my 16ht birthday in there(sweet 16).Had subsequent abortions.(plural and guess who took me there and paid for it? the guys at 16,17 and thats all I'll admit to) so pregnant THREE times by age 17) Never finished high school.And even in my 20's (married with a mortgage)I was sexually harrrassed at work including my breast being groped and my rear end even when I was 7 months pregnant.(at 21 with my 4th child) And I just stood there and let it happen like an idiot... I was permiscuous so I thought I deserved it or thats just life and what my body is here for even though I hated it...I was royally messed up in the head about my sexuality for a long time.And I had a home to go to with parents all be it they were highly dysfunctional that cared about me.. And later married with two children STILL at risk and damaged and messed up in the head..I cant understand how people cant see what these people have to go through and where they come from..If just little ole me trying to grow up in middle America with messed up ideas about sex and being protected and loved got that abused and abused myself including self medicating with alcohol and eventually drugs.. I can not even phathom the pain and sufferign these young boys and girls endure and into adult hood..

I dont CARE if someone wants to make a living sellign sex ..I dotn quite understand why they would voluntarily go in to it..My point is that most of them DONT want to do it.They're messed up in the head and people use them starting at very tender ages..You couldnt give me any amount of money to make it bettter for me beign a sexual target to selfish greedy heartless men.

Again I'm not some princess on a moral high horse.I think I relate to these grils and women more than anythign else.That is what they might be suffering in a small way ..Because I was more fortunate than them..Had I not been I could be right there with them today.An old 40 year old used up whore..If I was still alive that is.

If people dont want to go through the hassle of gettign free sex or for whatever reason a woman wont oblige him they should have to pay a hefty price for it..NOT the prostitute.Because she in the end is the one that pays.

I hope I've given you enough private information to see where my mind frame is and to show Im no angel sitting at the right hand of the throne casting stones.I simply care and can feel some of whats happening to my core..

Blessings

Dallas
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I'm seeing a lot of appeal to emotion here. Arguing from the stance of prostitutes' difficult lives/upbringing/future with pity does nothing to curb the real problem we have right now.........despite the fact that is is currently illegal, people are still entirely willing to risk their jobs, their anonymity, their families to engage in the world of prostitution. We are not seeing the problem lessen by criminalizing it, and therefore we must look at the situation from an entirely different angle. It's one of the reasons why I brought up the problems that were created by the Prohibition in the first place.

Which, there are MANY a sad story that has come from alcoholism, but one would be hard pressed to find someone in this country that would suggest that we make alcohol illegal.

I still stand by my opinion that many of our problems with prostitution is because of the result of it being thrust into the underground. People do it, just like people smoke and drink, and instead of the business being in battle with the state, I think the state ought to re-think it's position with this part of the sex industry. Engaging in this never-ending battle is bringing up a lose-lose situation for all parties involved.




Peace,
Mystic
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I just don't think we can fix it by declaring that something that is wrong and harmful to people is acceptable as long as the government can control and tax it. I think that's the absolute wrong message to send, and I don't for an instant think it will lessen the amount of prostitution going on.

I agree that just arresting prostitutes and their clients is not very helpful, either, but it does have some impact on the amount of prostitution going on, and it does stigmatize it as unacceptable behavior. That's a start. Now we need to offer help and alternatives to prostitutes instead of just jail time. And we need to add some education for the clients that are caught instead of just humiliation and a fine.
 

Smoke

Done here.
I agree that just arresting prostitutes and their clients is not very helpful, either, but it does have some impact on the amount of prostitution going on, and it does stigmatize it as unacceptable behavior. That's a start. Now we need to offer help and alternatives to prostitutes instead of just jail time.
How, exactly, do you think jail time, a criminal record, and stigma help to provide them with help and alternatives?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I just don't think we can fix it by declaring that something that is wrong and harmful to people is acceptable as long as the government can control and tax it. I think that's the absolute wrong message to send, and I don't for an instant think it will lessen the amount of prostitution going on.

.

No one here has said that prostitution is acceptable. Most still agree that it's not the best profession out there. We're just saying that there's no reason for it to be illegal. Should we make boxing illegal? It's two guys (or girls) beating each other up to satisfy our base desires. Why do they do it? To make money. Maybe it's not as bad, but it's the same concept. The biggest difference is that people tend to view boxers as heroes and idolize them. It seems to me that having someone pay you to fight someone else is nearly as bad, if not as bad, as someone paying you to have sex. They are both very degrading acts, with boxing being more physically damaging in general.

The fact that so many girls with bad histories only do it because of past abuse makes no difference. It's sad, but they still make the conscious decision to do this. If they don't, if they're forced into it, then that's a problem. If they choose it willingly, despite other factors influencing that decision, there's no reason it should be illegal. Many people make bad choices due to bad childhoods, and other factors, but they are still accountable for those choices. In other words, they still made those decisions themselves, and were not forced into them.

Whether or not it's illegal, you're still going to have the same messed-up girls doing it. So, making it illegal won't solve that problem. Legalizing it will at least help. It might not lessen the number of girls doing it, but will at least give them slightly better lives in the process.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Which, there are MANY a sad story that has come from alcoholism,

If I get drunk today what other human beign is deriving physical pleasure off of my state of intoxication?.Who is exploiting me?..And who is offering me money everyday if I'll just take a shot of tequelia?(even if I dont want to )Where are the millions of men that will line up outside my bedroom door and pay to watch my alcoholism?Where is the mass trafficing of exploiting peoples drinking problems for other individuals enjoyment or thrill?

That is the difference..If your going to comapre alcoholism to prostitution show me how its one individual exploiting another individual where one is hurt and the other is satisfied by it?

People arent tempted out of desperation to become an alcoholic in order to survive economically.No one in their right mind would tell someone you should at least get paid to drink your self to death rather than do it for free ...In fact if you want to drink its at your economic expense.The differnce is Im not paying for a human beings flesh..Im paying for a non living item.

But on that note?...If suddenly underpriveldged otherwise non drinkers found out they could make money getting drunk everyday and letting someone watch it I think the rate of alcoholism and all that entails it including vehicular homicide and all related alcohol deaths and the trickle down of human suffering to family members would SOAR...Especially if the "patrons" liked um the younger the better..

Then we could just say...they really like to get drunk..and we should legalize it to "help them"..

Yes alcoholism destroys some peoples lives ..many in fact...but the plain fact is the alcoholic did not feel threatened coerced or trapped in a situation that in order to eat and have a roof over thier head they must endure it.

Again I can not compare the two.And please dont say I missed your point..I realise the point is prohibition did not stop the consumptioan of alcohol..It just was undergound and became a criminal racket and mobs were murdering each other over territories and such...

Blessings

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Im going to post a really really long article of a very upset in fact outraged ex-prostitue..She is against "legalization"....But she is for removing any criminal responsibility of the prostitue..This woman is very passioante and compassionate..(its actually two aricle back to back..written in 08)

Blessings

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
The Sex Industry in NevadaSuki Falconberg PhD—01/2008

Las Vegas is a city associated with hedonism, showbiz, gambling and glamour… but would you associate it with rape? In reality, it is the hub for trafficking prostitutes in North America.

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IN CITY. SKIN CITY. Las Vegas is flesh city. Billboards everywhere display tempting bodies. At one posh nightclub, the Tao in the Venetian, near-naked girls greet you in perfumed bathwater, roses floating on its surface. Girls shadow dance behind screens at Caesars Palace. The Palms has its Playboy Club. A Penthouse Pet Club has just opened. The city is the haunt of the Implant Babe, Pamela Anderson, and of Carmen Electra, and the cavorting Pussycat Dolls. Rows of topless showgirls in big-stage extravaganzas have been a staple for decades, and the city is famous for its strip clubs — like Crazy Horse and Cheetah's. Newer clubs are springing up all the time. Topless, and bottomless, venues abound and the city flaunts the beauty of the female body — glossy, shining, naked, or near-naked — images of women as sensually pleasing and arousing objects are everywhere. As a highly sensuous woman, I like sex and nakedness and the beauty of our lovely soft bodies. We women are lovely and sensual and soft and delectable. I do not connect sex with outmoded notions of 'lust' and 'sin' and I do not link it with morality. To do so denies an experience that at its highest can be beautiful and emotional as well as physical. And I would see nothing wrong with Las Vegas as a sexual playground if it did not involve exploitation. Unfortunately, this harsher aspect is a big part of the $6 billion dollar industry of sex in Nevada. This exploitation side makes me object to the name of the gentleman's club, newly opened, at the Luxor. It is called Cathouse.

What really happens inside Nevada's legal 'cathouses' is not glamourous. Psychologist Melissa Farley's recent book, Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connection, the result of a two-year research project sponsored by the U.S. State Department, uncovers some of the less savory side of the Nevada sex industry.
"No one really enjoys being sold," a woman in a Nevada legal brothel told Farley. "It's like you sign a contract to be raped." From interviews and first-hand observation, Farley says that "many of the women in the legal brothels are under intense emotional stress; many of them have symptoms of chronic institutionalization and trauma." Farley found mentally ill women in the brothels, ones who had been beaten, and ones who has been trafficked in by pimps, who took the majority of the money they earned. She found 'debt bondage conditions' in some brothels: girls being charged enormous amounts for food and cigarettes and even the condoms they needed — these latter items are supposed to be supplied, free, by the brothel in a legal establishment.

Prostitution is not legal in Las Vegas or Reno: the brothels are in adjacent rural counties. To get to the ones outside Las Vegas, in the area surrounding the small town of Pahrump, is quite a trip — they are way, way out in the desert — and, once there, it is very difficult to get to talk to the girls. Why, I wonder, if is legal, is there something to hide? Are these girls 'inmates' in a prison?

Legal prostitution is only a part of the picture. Farley reports that the links between illegal and legal prostitution and between trafficking and prostitution are the same as one finds every place where legalizing it has been tried. The Netherlands, Germany, Australia — in all these countries trafficking skyrocketed after prostitution was legalized. It made it much easier for the exploiters to operate, for the 'johns' to get at the enslaved, and it did nothing for the girls themselves, the victims of the exploitation. Only a tiny handful of Dutch, German, and Australian prostitutes might benefit from the health and pension systems that legalizing brings. The majority of prostituted beings in these countries are sex slaves with no access to benefits, or any rights whatsoever. Even the few 'independent' German/ Dutch/Australian prostitutes often report pimps taking their money, so I even wonder if they are 'free' to prostitute themselves or whether this 'trade' involves a universal form of coercion visited on all the women in it.

Maybe Farley's most shocking find is that "Las Vegas is the epicenter of North American trafficking and prostitution. Women are trafficked into this city from all over the world, including Korea, China, Mexico, Russia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Ukraine, Czech Republic and others."
According to the U.S. State Department, prostitution and trafficking are heavily linked. Whether you call the girl 'trafficked' or not, prostitution is inherently harmful. To quote a pamphlet from the State Department: "Few activities are as brutal and damaging to people as prostitution… victims meet the criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder in the same range as victims of state-organized torture. Shocking abuse of the body, a myriad of serious and fatal diseases, such as AIDS, higher rates of cervical cancer… Prostitution leaves women and children physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually devastated. Recovery takes years, even decades — often, the damage can never be undone."


I had to split it up..It was too long..

Blessings

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I have written two articles on the sex industry in Nevada. I think they can add to Farley's insights as to what goes on in this lucrative business. Here is the first, called "In the Las Vegas Sex Industry, the Rapists Go Free" — date May 15, 2007:

Two dozen girls were picked up in a raid on a Las Vegas brothel last month. The customers present were questioned and released. This particular raid, the result of something called Operation Doll House, came after two years of investigation, and it yielded the arrest of about half a dozen exploiters with ties to Asia who had trafficked the girls in. The first news article on this raid (in the Las Vegas Review-Journal, April 25, 2007) was entitled "Women Facing Deportation" and made it sound as if the girls were the criminals since they were in the U.S. illegally. The second article (also in the Review-Journal, May 4, 2007) did an about face and said the girls would be eligible for "T" visas (ones available for trafficking victims) and they would receive help locally from the Salvation Army and WestCare, a facility with a newly established trafficking program.

The article mentioned the conditions the girls were found under: dirty mattresses on the floor, separated by sheets strung up; the rooms reeking of cigarettes and feces and urine; gallon containers of lube and hundreds of condoms in the brothel. While the brothel was running, neighbors reported seeing customers vomiting and urinating in the street before going in and they reported huge numbers of used condoms rolling down the street on trash days.
The article also, thankfully, pointed out the campaign of terror and physical and psychological abuse, not the least of which is the daily rape of their bodies, that girls who are trafficked endure.

These articles prompted a number of questions on my part. The biggest one: why were the customers not arrested for the ongoing rape of these girls' bodies? Were the girls put in jail cells right after the raid, further traumatizing their already shocked minds and bodies? If they are indeed the victims of this terrible rape of their bodies, why would anyone even consider putting them in a cell, or 'arresting' them, for even a moment?

Who termed this Operation Doll House? It makes the pathetic situation of these poor girls sound like a dirty joke at a bachelor party — as if a brothel were a place full of live dolls to play with. Another such operation in Las Vegas a number of years ago was called Operation Jade Blade, carrying sad, 'exotic' associations with the knives brothel inmates feel between their legs everyday. Words are important. I would like to know if male police officers named these operations, unaware of the insensitivity of phrasing.
Since the Las Vegas police must see the pathetic conditions that prostitutes live under, why would they use such a sadly callous and sexist title for this operation? The Las Vegas police report that the city has as many underage street prostitutes (most trafficked in by pimps) as bigger cities like Los Angeles and New York. Given this, they must see the misery of these girls. Sold girls are not 'dolls.'

Other questions about the raid: Why did it take two years to release the girls from their sexual slavery? Is not the fact of all those used condoms rolling down the street enough of a clue that something is terribly amiss? Two years while the girls were raped thousands of times.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
A local aid worker who helps trafficked victims says she was not aware of anyone being sexually enslaved in the U.S. until she herself began helping victims in 1997. Although I have great admiration for what she does, I do know that I have been aware of sexual slavery since I was quite young. I am not sure there was ever a time that I didn't know that the sale of female bodies is one of the most lucrative businesses on the planet. It is rather hard to miss it. When and where have women and girls not been sold for sex? Why would anyone think it does not happen in this country? Is there a city, a place, a haven, anywhere, in the history of our species, where sexual slavery has not been practiced? I have always been aware that my own safety exists at the expense of those less sexually protected in some terrible equation of unfairness and pain.

How many other brothels full of trafficked girls are operating right now in Las Vegas? It is one of the major sex-for-sale venues in the world. Wherever sex is a massive industry, as it is in this entertainment capital of the world — as it styles itself — there will be exploitation. In recent years, Las Vegas has seen a massive proliferation of Asian massage parlours, and the numerous escort services advertise many girls from both Asia and Eastern Europe. The phenomenon of selling more girls from these areas parallels the rise in trafficking worldwide.

Setting up services for trafficked girls in Las Vegas is very recent — only within the last year have organizations and women's groups actually recognized the problem — this despite the fact that Las Vegas has been 'Sin City' for decades.
Operation Jade Blade took place in 2000, Operation Doll House this year. Two stings within a period of seven years in a city where sex-for-sale is a commonplace? The Las Vegas yellow pages runs 150 pages of ads under the caption "Entertainment." Girls are offered under such headings as "Barely Legal China Dolls and Asian Centerfolds and Asian Beauties." "Direct to you, petite and willing, you no happy, you no pay, wild, ready to have fun with you" — these are some of the promises. Along with that famous phrase "full service," as in "Full Service Japanese and Chinese Teens." "Exotic European Girls" are there, along with "Chinese Teens in Short Skirts" and "Sizzling Asian Teen Strippers" and "Chinese Take-Out, Asian Girls Are Better." "Affordable Asians" is yet another ad. Some present the girls as docile and submissive, in the traditional stereotype. "No attitude" is the promise. They will do what you want.

There are, of course, plenty of ads for home-grown girls, but I do note that the marketing of Asians, and Eastern Europeans, in Las Vegas has increased enormously over the last few years. It would seem obvious that a link with trafficking is the reason.
Little cards with near-nude, provocatively posed girls and brochures are other ways that the escort and massage and entertainment services of Las Vegas advertise. One girl for $35, two-girl special for $60, etc.

Yet another aspect of the Las Vegas sex scene is an increase in 'Gentleman's Clubs,' some displaying just topless but others offering full nudity. Crazy Horse and Cheetah's and others have, of course, been a part of the Las Vegas scene for a long while; but around the city there now seems to be an explosion of nude entertainment. Many girls may be quite happily making lots of money in these clubs — if so, I would be really overjoyed to know this is the case — but we do not really know much in the way of their stories. Nor do we know much about the connection between these establishments and prostitution per se in Las Vegas. In fact, how much sexual activity is voluntary, and how much 'forced,' on the part of girls engaged in the various aspects of the sex industry in this city is impossible to tell. A local investigative reporter who has interviewed Las Vegas and Nevada prostitutes on-and-off for many years says that almost every girl he talked to struck him as damaged in some way. The few who might actually benefit from selling sex were rare in his opinion.
How many of the escorts are independent operators and how many are controlled by pimps? Prostitution is illegal within Las Vegas itself, but legal in the adjacent county. Girls are sometimes trafficked into the legal establishments by pimps, who take the money. They are also trafficked between the escort services and strip clubs and brothels so as to provide fresh merchandize.

If the women and girls working in the Las Vegas and Nevada sex industries were there because they wanted to be, and were indeed making money, instead of it being siphoned off by pimps, owners, procurers, traffickers, it would be fine by me. I would like to envision a form of prostitution where the girl has control over her body and her finances. But I wonder if this is the case for many of them? Particularly with the huge increase over the past few years of Asians and Eastern Europeans being marketed. In addition to the two dozen rescued during Operation Doll House, how many more girls are being held in debt bondage and sexual slavery around the Las Vegas valley and in the adjacent county with its legal establishments? I doubt if this tiny handful of girls rescued in the raid is even the tip of the sexual misery going on out there.

Trying to get to talk to a girl in one of Nevada's legal brothels is tough. The places are way out in the desert and resemble prisons. If the activity is a prosperous and beneficial one for the girls, why are the places so hard to get into, or out of? And where would a girl go, out in the desert, if she did escape? There are only jackrabbits and coyotes out there.
Back to a question that I raised at the beginning of this article — since it is the one that troubles me most deeply: Why are the 'johns' who rape the girls not being arrested? Since I have been raped/prostituted, I know that what johns do to us is rape. They pay to rape an already thoroughly raped body. Why are these attackers going free? Please call johns what they are — rapists. And punish them for their sexual brutality.

It puzzles me why one girl raped by her boyfriend is considered so important and 'special' that she has rape crisis centers and counseling and prosecution under the law at her disposal; but if a girl is trafficked, broken, tortured, terrorized and raped over and over, on a daily basis, the many 'customers' who violate her multiple times are not even considered criminals. And — could a trafficked girl even use the local 'rape-crisis' center? Or would they throw her out because she wasn't really 'raped.' After all, the guys paid her.
If anyone reads this and knows about how the law operates, please let me know if the 'johns' are culpable under a new move in international law to regard any man as a rapist who uses a girl forced into sexual servitude. How does international law intersect with local law?

As you may know, Las Vegas has a famous slogan: "What happens here, stays here." What you may not know is that the phrase comes from the military. An uncle of mine, a WWII vet, told me it referred to the GI's buying and raping starving prostituted girls all across Europe and Asia. Obviously, they did not want their wives and girlfriends back home to know about the way they took advantage of women and girls and the way they forced conqueror sex on a destitute population, nor did they want the many babies they fathered and abandoned to come to light. So they all formed a 'pact' around that phrase, "what happens here, stays here." My uncle (who bought prostituted bodies in Japan) says he thought the phrase went back at least to WWI, when soldiers in that war behaved the same in France and elsewhere. And, of course, the same soldier/sailor mentality continues to this day, as our military stops off for the regulation sex binge in Bangkok, or our men buy girls trafficked into brothels for them near bases in Korea and Germany and other places overseas. "What happens here, stays here." An appropriate 'slogan,' no? — for Las Vegas, a major sex-for-sale city.

It seems unlikely that Las Vegas will ever tackle the exploitative aspect of its sex industry. There is too much money to be made. It is also too much a part of the 'glamourous' aspect of Sin City. My temporary solution would be to at least not treat the girls as criminals, no matter if they are 'trafficked' or not. I would set up extensive services (physical and mental health care, job training, mentoring by ex-prostitutes) for those trying to escape prostitution, including actively seeking out enslaved girls since the truly oppressed are often not in a position to escape on their own — too beaten down and terrified and broken. For those who are in the profession voluntarily, I would advocate 'protective' services for these girls that really work in their favor, including decriminalizing it totally for the women, and punishing exploiters and pimps as slavers and rapists. 'Legalizing' has been a failure. It is time to envision a completely different path for protecting girls involved in selling sex. This is matter for a whole article, or book, on its own, for a later time.
I would like to conclude by saying that I hope these poor 'doll-house' girls receive nurturing care for many years to come. They will need the kindness of the generous-hearted people at the Salvation Army, and WestCare, for a long, long time. It takes a whole lifetime to heal from being raped everyday by johns. And even then the sexual scarring is inside forever.

That's the end of the first article. When the 'Doll-House' case surfaced in the Las Vegas news again last month, I wrote the following in response to the coverage of it:
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
According to the Review-Journal's latest coverage (Dec. 11, 2007) of Operation Doll House, a brothel sting that rounded up a number of Asian girls, it appears that the rapists/exploiters are going free. One man indicted has received a suspended prison sentence and 5 years probation. That's all — for his role in the rape of these women's bodies. The article also reports that this was not a case of 'trafficking' and that the girls were not coerced. The RJ's previous coverage of the event, a number of months ago, described the rooms where the girls were found: gallons of lube, hundreds of condoms, filthy mattresses on the floor, the rooms reeking of feces and urine. It described drunk men urinating and vomiting outside before they went in to use the girls. Yet, according to the current RJ article, the FBI investigators found no evidence that the women were being 'forced.'
Now, would a woman 'choose' to have intercourse with men who have just vomited in the street? Would any woman choose to be penetrated multiple times a night by men she doesn't know on a dirty mattress on the floor-- in an apartment reeking of urine and feces? No forcing???? Who would ever choose to work under these conditions?
Which male universe do these FBI agents come from? Do they think that their own wives and daughters would ever invite sex with drunk strangers, night after night, on filthy mattresses? If not, then how can they possibly assume any other woman would want to be treated to a nightly dose of serial rape in an atmosphere of filth and misery? In what way is the situation of these girls not 'coercion' and force? And rape — of the most terrible kind.

It took the authorities two years to investigate this situation. Their attitude is well illustrated by what they labeled it: Operation Doll House — what a degradation to imply these raped girls are 'toys'! Why did it take them two years to get the girls out of the brothels? Two years while their poor bodies were being raped thousands of times. And then when they get them out — the people who put them there are let go, on 'probation,' and the customers (the real rapists) are not even punished at all? The girls have no 'probation' from the permanent hell that will be their life after years of being gang raped every day. As a rape/prostitution survivor, I can tell you that the prostitute never heals. I never healed. I never will. I am always in that rape prison.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Were the women held in debt bondage? Are any of these Asian women in brothels not being held in debt bondage? This is not just a form of coercion — it is enslavement.
The FBI agent called it a "straightforward" case. How so? What is "straightforward" about women being treated this way — except that it's rape but that word did not surface in the article. Who makes up the definition of 'force' that the FBI and the courts use? I think I must look at reality very differently from the way the courts and the FBI do. I look at reality from the perspective of a body that has been raped thousands of times — the way these women have been.
The RJ article could have covered this so differently. It could have recounted the extent of the girls' physical injuries. Serial rape, night after night, leaves tremendous damage. The article could have found out what the girls said — that is, if they were able to speak. Ordinarily, due to shame and deep trauma, prostituted women are only capable of saying what they think they have to in order to not be hurt anymore.
The article reports the girls are being sent back to their countries. What it does not mention is that there it is likely they will be re-trafficked: they will probably end up back in prostitution not just because of this but because they will be seen as unfit, as whores, to go back into their society. Also, their self-worth will be so low, due to the thousands of rapes, that they will probably not see a way out of prostitution. I know that when I was in it, I thought I would die in it. I could not picture a life after or beyond it. Who can ever be 'normal' after thousands of rapes? Who can get a job at Sears or Starbucks after thousands of rapes?
I can't see a whole lot of difference between forced prostitution/prostitution/trafficking. Is this Las Vegas case another example of the TIP (Trafficking in Person's Act) not working because the women are too terrified to speak? Their abusers are free to still hurt them if they testify. Is what is happening in this trial an example of women too frightened and damaged to testify? Too fearful of future reprisals? Why didn't the RJ cover this aspect of the case?
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I also know that speaking out for these women may be impossible. If faced with the men who hurt me, now, in my current life, there is no way I could ever testify against them. If I were in the same room with them, I would vomit and then run away as far as I could and hide in the nearest closet for safety. There is no police force that will protect me from them, and no court, not anywhere in America on any place else on this Rape Planet that I can go to. The legal system is designed to discredit the 'mass-rape' victim that we label 'prostitute.'

I really don't understand why rape/forced prostitution/trafficking are the only crimes where the victims are blamed for what happens to them.
That's the end of my second article. It indicates what we are up against in terms of tackling prostitution — in Nevada or across the planet. Attitudes and systems that keep girls enslaved and that do little to punish those who inflict extremes of torture on other human beings. 'John' = 'Rapist' and 'Pimp/Owner' = Rapist Murderer of Women's Bodies.
Farley has interviewed hundreds of prostitutes all over the world and she concludes that most are desperate to get out. That investigative reporter I mentioned earlier has interviewed about a hundred girls and come to the conclusion that almost all of them are in terrible shape. A former prostitute in Las Vegas who runs a 'john's' program — designed to educate the customers about the harm they inflict, comes to the same conclusion — that these are highly damaged women. And she should know. Being one of the damaged ones.
Farley presented a panel on prostitution shortly after her book came out, and a number of former prostitutes spoke. One said that Las Vegas is greatly lacking in services to help prostituted women, girls, and children. (The city has a thriving business based on the sale of young girls, ages 13-17.) She said that local charities would not help the prostituted. Once they discover you worked as one, they throw you out.

I know that the Salvation Army, nation-wide, is now getting involved in helping the trafficked. They are receiving federal funding to do so. Will they help the prostituted, or do they see a distinction between the two? (For me, the trafficked and the prostituted are the same tortured being.)
At the panel, one prostitute came up with a startling fact: that very few women, girls, or children actually make it out of prostitution, and, of the few who do, life expectancy is short. Most are dead two or three years later. From insanity, suicide, disease?

Her remarks made me stop breathing for a few seconds. I now realize that I was incredibly lucky to actually survive the three-year stint I spent in prostitution and that the odds of my being alive now are amazing. When I was in it, I saw no way out. Esteem so low and a body and mind and emotions so battered that I could not see past the next hour or so. I felt as if I was in a ten-foot pit and could not see the rim. I smiled all the time, as if everything was okay. But I simply assumed I would die in prostitution. I gave up. What life is there after being raped thousands of times by men you don't know?
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
There is none. I have no courage, no self-worth — all these must come from inside and there is only empty cold space inside me. I am afraid to leave the house. I am terrified of everything. I am not a rape/prostitution survivor. I didn't survive. I have no 'support network' since I have never spoken to another prostitute. I am always afraid I will see the same sadness in her eyes that I see in my own. The only way I know what other prostitutes think is through people like Melissa Farley, who has talked to so many all over the world. With surprise, I found many similarities — whether it's Bangkok or Bombay or London or Las Vegas, the raped body feels the same. Through Farley's interviews, I have also found ones who are 'true' survivors. Hope and peace and safety they have found. That's not me. No hope, no peace, and certainly no safety — since I am terrified to go outside the door. This is a big deal for me since you can't do much of anything else if you can't cross the threshold, into the outside world.

I pretty much live in spite of this. The beautiful things in the world — I know they are there — but I can't reach them for comfort. I am still ten feet down, in that pit. I love sparrows. So small and cute and sweet and fragile, yet also so cheeky and spirited. I wish I could appreciate the beauty of a sparrow again.
Hope. Sweden seems to be doing something that works! They have decriminalized it for the women and made it a felony for the men who buy the girls. Their attitude is simple: Prostitution exploits women — all women. The 'demand' side, the way men 'must' be allowed to purchase bodies, is the result of male dominance and exploitation of the female. Prostitution hurts women. Period. Sweden has reduced trafficking to almost nil and they provide many services for women who are either in prostitution, or who want out, or who have gotten out and are struggling to survive. No blame on the woman in Sweden. Finally, a paradise on earth that really includes women? I have to blink to believe it. And sit inside a warm blanket, safe, in a small space away from how cold and huge the outside world is — to believe it. I hope it's true.

When Sweden's new laws started really working, traffickers shifted more business to Norway. Norway has passed laws similar to Sweden's. Now, Denmark is currently working on going the way of the 'Swedish model.' The latest news I have is that the women of Denmark are pressuring the men who do not buy prostitutes to vote for legislation similar to that in Sweden. All Western European countries, except for Sweden, and now Norway, are major destinations for impoverished girls who are imported from third world countries and from Russia and the Ukraine for sex.

Could the United States follow the Swedish model? It would entail a sweeping change of attitude within our borders — that the prostitute is not a depraved immoral sex fiend addict and a threat to all decent pure women everywhere but that she is a terrible victim of rape and male dominance. Following the Swedish model also involves 'tracking' men who buy sex in other countries. Sweden is working on this side of the problem: it is tackling the Swedish men who go as sex tourists to Thailand and also the sexual behavior of its military abroad. During the World Cup in Germany, Sweden was the only country that 'policed' its players and tourists to make sure they did not buy any of the 40,000 enslaved bodies that Germany made available for rape 'fun and games.' I will be interested to see if Sweden can do similar policing of its own men at the Beijing Olympics where massive numbers of trafficked Chinese girls will be on sale.

The 'policing' of men will only work in the long run if we change men's hearts. They have to realize that to buy us destroys us. It harms the men as well since it reduces women to slaves.
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Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Im going to post a really really long article of a very upset in fact outraged ex-prostitue..She is against "leagalization"....But she is for removing any criminal responsibility of the prostitue..This woman is very passioante and compassionate..(its actually two aricle back to back..written in 07)

Blessings

Dallas

That would be interesting to read, but it's still not relevant. It's just more of the what you've been saying.

First, let me say I'm sorry to hear what has happened to you. I'm glad you've turned out OK.

Second, the problem is you're seeing this situation through eyes that have experienced those things. You can't look at it objectively because of your experiences.

Third, all of the analogies that have been given you have shot down because you don't want to compare the two things because you think prostitution is so much worse. Think of the analogies like an ostrich and a guinea pig. They are completely different in most ways. An ostrich is many times bigger, has wings, etc. But, when you break it down, they are both animals, and have life, among many other similarities. There are obviously differences between alcoholism and prostitution, and being a secretary and being a prostitute, but there are basic similarities that allow them to be compared in the way we are here.

I don't know what else to say, other than, whether or not prostitution is bad for one or both parties involved, they both still make the decision to do it of their own free will. You can counsel them against it, but there's no real reason to make it illegal.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Second, the problem is you're seeing this situation through eyes that have experienced those things. You can't look at it objectively because of your experiences.

I disagree..I can look at it from a glimmer of what "some" or "many" of these women have to endure..Rather than someone who has never experienced sexual degragation or exploitation at the hands of another..Im challenging that its no differnt than flipping burgers and I think Im qulaitfied to to that from the human perpective.

Dont read the aricles I printed..see only the "bright " side and rely on myths and blind eyes.Rather than people who have come from the business..Or peoples research revealing whats actually going on.

Blessings

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Oh and P.S...I knew before I posted my persoanl information that it would be used the way you did..That I see through bitter lenses of personal pain..i resent it..But Im not surprised one bit.

I can warn someone not to committ adultery based on the pain it caused me and you could say the same..You could say the same about any opinion or input anyone has if they have expereince on the subject....I could also say you can't look at it objectively because of your expereince or lack there of..

Blessings

Dallas
 
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