Let's Stop Pretending That Islam is a Religion of Peace

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This is an evidence that Muslims shouldn't beat women, actually it's shameful to use force against women,
the last sermon of the prophet shortly before his death which was witnessed and recorded by huge crowd
proves that men should be kind with women.

I'm glad you feel this way on the subject. Really, I am.

I'm curious though; how do you reconcile your belief that beating women is wrong with Surah 4:34? I appreciate that this sounds confrontational but I don't mean it like that; I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

Stop trying to blur the issue. Rival has already shown you the verse which permits violence against a woman - the verse is not designed to outline every possible infraction that may take place. However, the spirit of the scripture is clear: husbands have the authority to use violence against a woman to quell any disloyal thoughts - regardless of whether they exist or not.

The very interesting part of the story is that, i believe, Muhammad didnt beat his wives. Or atleast i am not familiar with any such reference. He didnt beat them although they were often rebelious against him. There were many instances where he clashed with his wives. The famous story where he promised to one of his wives not to eat honey (or another view is to not sleep with a slave girl) and she was basically *****ing about it but muhammad didnt beat her even though that may be an act of rebeliousness. There was also the incident where Aisha was accused of having had slept with another man (there were actually witnesses to this) but Muhammad didnt beat her for it.

 

[FearGod]

I'm glad you feel this way on the subject. Really, I am.

I'm curious though; how do you reconcile your belief that beating women is wrong with Surah 4:34? I appreciate that this sounds confrontational but I don't mean it like that; I'm genuinely curious.

I believe without doubt that the word was misinterpreted.

The word strike (in Arabic) has several meanings, one of the meanings is to abandon something as means of objection
and that what the verse was about.

That's what happening actually in the real life generation after generation, men will leave women for sometime for them
to think, if there's a chance for reconciliation then the husband will return back home, if not then the last option is to divorce.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I agree on this point. In my country (thank God) if you beat your wife you go to jail.

Believe it or not, even here in Saudi Arabia we have such a law. The penalty starts with a minimum fine of SR5,000 (~$1,333 USD). Imprisonment is somewhere there too.

 

[FearGod]

The very interesting part of the story is that, i believe, Muhammad didnt beat his wives. Or atleast i am not familiar with any such reference. He didnt beat them although they were often rebelious against him. There were many instances where he clashed with his wives. The famous story where he promised to one of his wives not to eat honey (or another view is to not sleep with a slave girl) and she was basically *****ing about it but muhammad didnt beat her even though that may be an act of rebeliousness. There was also the incident where Aisha was accused of having had slept with another man (there were actually witnesses to this) but Muhammad didnt beat her for it.

If a Muslim woman slept with another man then it'll be divorced immediately, it isn't like in the west that some men may accept and forgive
their wives if slept with other men, For Aisha it was just rumors, they have already accused Virgin Mary of having sex with a Roman soldier.

 

[FearGod]

I agree on this point. In my country (thank God) if you beat your wife you go to jail.

If she beat you ?

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

If a Muslim woman slept with another man then it'll be divorced immediately, it isn't like in the west that some men may accept and forgive
their wives if slept with other men, For Aisha it was just rumors, they have already accused Virgin Mary of having sex with a Roman soldier.

Pantera? Funny thing is he actually existed. He was even stationed near Galilee during the virgin conception of mary.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius_Iulius_Abdes_Pantera

 

[Smart_Guy]

Believe it or not, even here in Saudi Arabia we have such a law. The penalty starts with a minimum fine of SR5,000 (~$1,333 USD). Imprisonment is somewhere there too.

The funny thing is the other way around is not part of this law

 

[FearGod]

Believe it or not, even here in Saudi Arabia we have such a law. The penalty starts with a minimum fine of SR5,000 (~$1,333 USD). Imprisonment is somewhere there too.

That's why you're still a single.

 

[paarsurrey]

I am not angry at you or Muslims in general. I am frustrated by FG's avoidance of the verse and the word in question. Ignoring the sources from Islamic translation, lexicons, linguistic documentation, etc. Due to FG's religious ideology there is no ability to call it what it is since FG is emotional invested into the belief system. This is a failure of all religions as people will conform their religion to modern views, yet deny doing so, then claim their view is the only correct one while being correct since day 1. Sources and academia be damned.

I am showing a supposed text from God commanding an immoral act, physical abuse, which should no longer be acceptable by anyone nor even put forward by God. It reflects the culture of the era not any all knowing God. If mere humans can develop a better way to resolve issues with a spouse then this goes far into undermining the claims of your religion. Humans out thought God... I hope Muslims ignore this versus completely but this would require abandonment of literalism in the belief of dictation from God to Gab to Mo. It could be inspired by God but still written by a limited human thus contains errors and bad ideas.

We are trying to look into the issue, please have patience.
In the meantime please let us know as to how such issues are/were tackled by "Theological noncognitivists" that existed (1) in the time of Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha, Moses and Jesus, (2)and in the present times,(3) on what basis and (4) whether the solution is 100% accurate for the relative families.
Regards

 

[FearGod]

The funny thing is the other way around is not part of this law

 

[paarsurrey]

Respect is earned and lost as is friendship. FG was never a friend thus I do not need to treat him as one. FG lost my respect along time ago.

Then why you describe FearGod as your son.
If one doesn't take the members here as friend, does one take them as foes?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

But what do you make of Muslim scholars who say that Sharia Law should be reinterpreted to 'adapt' to new circumstances and new conditions now in a new era?

In fact Quran does not mention the term "Sharia Law", and Quran does not specify to follow any "Muslim scholars". Quran does say to adapt to circumstances and conditions as I mentioned in one of my post.
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Then why you describe FearGod as your son.

It's a colloquialism - not meant to be interpreted that FearGod is Shad's literal flesh & blood offspring. In this context 'son' is used in the same way as 'mate', 'pal', 'buddy', 'chum', or 'friend'. I'm not entirely sure why it's used in this way but that is the context.

No wonder people say English is a hard language.

 

[Smart_Guy]

That's why you're still a single.

To shay (or whatever the spelling is )

Will you believe me that I'm scared of women?

 

[FearGod]

It's a colloquialism - not meant to be interpreted that FearGod is Shad's literal flesh & blood offspring. In this context 'son' is used in the same way as 'mate', 'pal', 'buddy', 'chum', or 'friend'. I'm not entirely sure why it's used in this way but that is the context.

No wonder people say English is a hard language.

I thought that he's so old and doting.

 

[Rival]

 

[Jumi]

If a Muslim woman slept with another man then it'll be divorced immediately, it isn't like in the west that some men may accept and forgive their wives if slept with other men,

It doesn't necessarily go like this.

Will you believe me that I'm scared of women?

Nothing to be scared of SG.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Nothing to be scared of SG.

The thing is, I know. But it is not working for some reason.

 

[David1967]

Believe it or not, even here in Saudi Arabia we have such a law. The penalty starts with a minimum fine of SR5,000 (~$1,333 USD). Imprisonment is somewhere there too.

Thats good. I think we all need to evolve (for lack of a better word) beyond using violence to solve our issues, marriage and otherwise. And also realize that just because it was done that way long ago doesn't mean we should use it for an excuse do behave that way now. If God is a merciful God (which I believe that He is) should we not also strive to be merciful? I mean if your wife displeases so much get a divorce before it escalates into violence.