Let's Stop Pretending That Islam is a Religion of Peace

[Lyndon]

Muslims don't pay jizyah. I'm not opposed to regular taxes. I'm opposed to taxes based on religion.

Muslims I believe pay higher taxes, have you ever heard of zakat?? You sound very uneducated about Islam.

 

[FearGod]

Zakat is not voluntary. It's up there with Salah and tawhid.

And that is because the West is secular and we don't impose our Religion/s on anybody.

Today it's voluntary because governments don't apply the sharia law, taxes is a must whereas Zakat
is a voluntary paid for the poor and for those who's in need directly or via charities.

 

[Kirran]

Muslims I believe pay higher taxes, have you ever heard of zakat?? You sound very uneducated about Islam.

That varies. Different states at different times have had zakat or jizya be higher, and in some cases made zakat universal and then added jizya on top of that for non-Muslims.

 

[FearGod]

wow , what a change! werent you christian just a couple of weeks ago? no problem though.


islam is a religion of "peace", but only when you are muslim. it is a religion which is peaceful, once youre part of it. but if youre an outsider it is against you.
a muslim cant kill a muslim, he commits a very horrible act if he does. but if he kills a pagan he actually does a neutral or even a good deed.

No, killing an innocent pagan is a great sin and the killer is punished for killing a human being.

 

[Lyndon]

Kirran; Well none of that is happening today, is it???

 

[Rival]

Muslims I believe pay higher taxes, have you ever heard of zakat?? You sound very uneducated about Islam.

Of course I know what zakat is. But it's hardly the same as being taxed for belonging to a different faith. Jizyah is religious discrimination. Zakat is charity. Two completely different things.

 

[Augustus]

So what about when you apostatise? Is it so full of rainbows and unicorns then?

To play devil's advocate, what was the Mazdaian punishment for apostasy?

 

[Rival]

To play devil's advocate, what was the Mazdaian punishment for apostasy?

We force you to eat cold McDonald's, silly.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

No, killing an innocent pagan is a great sin and the killer is punished for killing a human being.

There is no thing as "innocent" pagan though. All pagans commit shirk, which is a great sin according to islam.

 

[Rival]

To play devil's advocate, what was the Mazdaian punishment for apostasy?

Or

d) Apostasy - According to Vendidad (15.2) "if a person, being a member of the good religion, willingly accepts the commandments of another religion and speaks pejoratively of our religion, he becomes a tanapuhr sinner";

But I only follow the Gathas, being reform.

 

[Lyndon]

So are you asserting, in a Muslim country where Muslims are the government, Jews and Christians should be exempt from paying taxes that Muslims have to pay, that is a completely insane logic.

 

[FearGod]

There is no thing as "innocent" pagan though. All pagans commit shirk, which is a great sin according to islam.

I said the quran is explicit about the freedom of choice for religion, here it's once again

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.(2:256)

 

[Lyndon]

Or

d) Apostasy - According to Vendidad (15.2) "if a person, being a member of the good religion, willingly accepts the commandments of another religion and speaks pejoratively of our religion, he becomes a tanapuhr sinner";

But I only follow the Gathas, being reform.

That sounds just like what the Koran says.

 

[Kirran]

So are you asserting, in a Muslim country where Muslims are the government, Jews and Christians should be exempt from paying taxes that Muslims have to pay, that is a completely insane logic.

It's the imposition of sharia law upon non-Muslims which is an intrinsic issue, flying in the face of the equality upheld by secularism.

 

[Rival]

That sounds just like what the Koran says.

How? It makes no mention of fighting.

Anyway, this thread is not about Zoroastrianism.

 

[Augustus]

Or

d) Apostasy - According to Vendidad (15.2) "if a person, being a member of the good religion, willingly accepts the commandments of another religion and speaks pejoratively of our religion, he becomes a tanapuhr sinner";

But I only follow the Gathas, being reform.

"In theory, Zoroastrians are forbidden to have physical, personal or even commercial contacts with followers of other faiths (jud-dēn; agdēn; jud-kēš etc.). In earlier Zoroastrian literature, the existence of other faiths—apart from the daēva-worshippers—is scarcely mentioned. Much evidence comes from the Christian martyrologies (for instance the fact that apostasy from Zoroastrianism was a capital punishment), and from the instructions in later Pahlavi texts.” (Jason Mokhtarian (2015) The Boundaries of an Infidel in Zoroastrianism: A Middle Persian Term of Otherness for Jews, Christians, and Muslims, Iranian Studies, 48:1)

If Zoroastrians can evolve their views, why can't the Muslims?

 

[FearGod]

So are you asserting, in a Muslim country where Muslims are the government, Jews and Christians should be exempt from paying taxes that Muslims have to pay, that is a completely insane logic.

Exactly, it's one of 2, to pay Zakat and be forced to follow the Islamic law and fight with the Muslims for the sake of Islam which will be immoral,the
other option to exempt them from taxes which as you said would be an insane logic.

 

[Rival]

"In theory, Zoroastrians are forbidden to have physical, personal or even commercial contacts with followers of other faiths (jud-dēn; agdēn; jud-kēš etc.). In earlier Zoroastrian literature, the existence of other faiths—apart from the daēva-worshippers—is scarcely mentioned. Much evidence comes from the Christian martyrologies (for instance the fact that apostasy from Zoroastrianism was a capital punishment), and from the instructions in later Pahlavi texts.” (Jason Mokhtarian (2015) The Boundaries of an Infidel in Zoroastrianism: A Middle Persian Term of Otherness for Jews, Christians, and Muslims, Iranian Studies, 48:1)

If Zoroastrians can evolve their views, why can't the Muslims?

Because the Qur'an is the word of God and that cannot be reformed or changed.

Also, this thread is not about Mazdaism, so let's stay on topic.

 

[Kirran]

Exactly, it's one of 2, to pay Zakat and be forced to follow the Islamic law and fight with the Muslims for the sake of Islam which will be immoral,the
other option to exempt them from taxes which as you said would be an insane logic.

Third option: secularism.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

I said the quran is explicit about the freedom of choice for religion, here it's once again

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.(2:256)

No, having partners besides "Allah" is a sin. There is also abrogation in Islam, which means the "peaceful" verses in Islam were replaced by the more intolerant ones. In the Quran it first said that wine is a sign of wisdom. Then it said that you should not be drunk when praying. And last of all it said that wine is the work of satan. Just as the wine story the "no compulsion in religion" has been abrogated by "Islam alone". Pagans commit the worst sin, the assosiaction of allah with other gods. Even the shahadah, the core of Islam, says "there is no god besides Allah", which refutes the greatest sin.[/QUOTE]