Let's talk about Hell

[URAVIP2ME]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Biblically, Adam was created nearly 6,000 years ago -and is the first to be made in the image and likeness of God -with the potential to be made immortal. The bible states that God created the earth, and then the earth BECAME "formless and void" (probably due to the rebellion -attempted coup -of the third of the angels under Lucifer from earth -as he said he would "ascend above the heights of the clouds" when he attempted to dethrone God -and was already Satan in Eden -no longer obedient Lucifer) before being renewed in preparation for the events in Eden, but does not say that other humanoids could not have existed -and does NOT say the initial creation of the earth was 6,000 years ago. The bible does say God renewed the earth in seven days, but also says that, to God, a thousand years is as a day. The bible sates that Adam was the first man -but this is not the same as the scientific definition of "man". I'm not sure where evolutionists draw the line between apes and man, but "man" in the bible refers to those beginning with Adam and Eve.
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Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

URAVIP2ME ??? COMMENTS???

First of all, the length of the 'creative days' are not mentioned in Genesis.
Genesis [2v4] sums up all of the creative days as: 'a day'.
Because of the accuracy of microwaves [CMBR] science can date earth.
There is no close to the 7th day, and in Paul's day the 7th day was still on going.- Hebrews 4 vs4-10.


Matthew 13v34 is clear that Jesus would only speak to the people in parables or illustrations.
Luke chapter 16 is No exception. Luke 16 is an illustration and Not a literal happening.
Please notice who had just derided Jesus at Luke 16 v14. Then in verse 15 Jesus addresses, Not his followers, but Jesus addresses the Pharisees. The law was until John says verse 16. Whoever would become Christ's bride must be released from the law covenant or be adulterous as verse 17 says.
So the illustration was showing the Pharisees they were not humble persons and only fed the beggar people [spiritually starved] spiritual crumbs.....

Jesus words were 'torment' to them and Not torture as literal flames would be.
Gehenna is often translated as hellfire. What was Gehenna? Gehenna was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and not kept burning forever. So Gehenna [hellfire] is a fitting symbol for destruction or annihilation.


Yes the wicked [goats] are severed from the just [sheep] and the just sheep go off into everlasting life, or continue to live right on into Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth. Whereas the wicked goat-like ones [Matt 25v46] go away into everlasting punishment. 'Punishment' not fire, not flames is mentioned because as 2nd Thess 1v9 shows such punishment is: everlasting destruction. The wicked of Psalm [92v7] are destroyed or annihilated at the time Jesus takes action with the words from Jesus mouth.
see: Isaiah 11 v4; Rev. 19 v11,14,15.

 

[Etritonakin]

To be honest, I have been quite surprised to find that the old Christian idea of hell has changed so much. Tell me someone, or all of you. Is this idea of hell that you guys have been talking about a widespread thing in Christianity today, or are the majority still saying we burn forever? And, is it still that one must be "saved"? In other words, pray the sinners prayer and repent/make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior, or go to hell.

Your are less than 130 years old. The "old Christian idea of hell" may be older than you -but is younger than what is written in the bible. The MODERN idea of "hell" is not what is written in the bible.

It is not that the old ideas of "sheol/tartaros/hades/gehenna"... all translated/understood as "hell" ----have changed, but that the truth recorded has been changed into the modern idea of "hell".

(To URAVIP2ME...)

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

[Etritonakin]

Luke chapter 16 is No exception. Luke 16 is an illustration and Not a literal happening.

So the illustration was showing the Pharisees they were not humble persons and only fed the beggar people [spiritually starved] spiritual crumbs.....

Jesus words were 'torment' to them and Not torture as literal flames would be.
Gehenna is often translated as hellfire. What was Gehenna? Gehenna was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and not kept burning forever.

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

IS a literal happening.

Whether you believe they will then be utterly destroyed or not >>> Why would you believe that their complete destruction would be less merciful than temprary torment unto salvation?
Is it not more merciful to give those who would not otherwise be convinced another opportunity? ... Or do you not believe that God's mercy never fails?

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

To be honest, I have been quite surprised to find that the old Christian idea of hell has changed so much. Tell me someone, or all of you. Is this idea of hell that you guys have been talking about a widespread thing in Christianity today, or are the majority still saying we burn forever? And, is it still that one must be "saved"? In other words, pray the sinners prayer and repent/make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior, or go to hell.

If we trace mankind's religious family tree back to its pagan roots in ancient Babylon we can see widespread 'pagan' ideas such as hell fire did Not exist in ancient Israel or in the Mosaic law. When 1st-century Christianity ended as Acts 20vs29,30 brings out there would be oppressive wolf-like clergy dressed in sheep's clothing that would fleece the flock. Often the clergy of Christendom [not Christianity] would use the pagan hellfire concept as a scare tactic to keep the flock for their own agenda, often political, instead of teaching what the Bible really teaches.

The clergy class makes hell hot. Jesus believed [John 11vs11-14] that the dead know nothing just like an unconscious person in a deep sleep would not be aware of pain or bliss. So Jesus would have believed that while he was in hell, as Acts 2 vs27,31 says, Jesus would be in a stone-cold grave or hell.

Jesus taught us that wheat [genuine] and weed [fake] Christians would grow together until the time of the harvest, or our time frame, when Jesus as the Fine Shepherd would separate the true from the false followers.
see Matthew chapter 25.

Those that are executed by the words from Jesus mouth [Isaiah 11v4; Rev 19vs11,14,15] do 'Not go to hell' [gravedom], but they are destroyed or annihilated. Since they are depicted as having no burial but as manure then they will have no future life anywhere in heaven or on earth. - Jeremiah 25 vs31-33. Destruction or annihilation awaits those of Psalm 92v7; 37,38.

In the meantime we should all heed the words of 2nd Peter 3v9 and repent so we can be part of the great crowd or great multitude of Revelation [7vs9,10,14], and say 'salvation' because we are delivered or saved through the coming great tribulation that will rid the earth of all wickedness before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

IS a lteral happening.

Whether you believe they will then be utterly destroyed or not >>> Why would you believe that their complete destruction would be less merciful than temprary torment unto salvation?
Is it not more merciful to give those who would not otherwise be convinced another opportunity? ... Or do you not believe that God's mercy never fails?

What is 'temporary' about Matthew 12 v32 or Hebrews 6 vs4-6?_________
It wasn't God's mercy that failed them.
What does Hebrews 10 v26 say?_________



Before Matthew 13v49 comes verses 34,35 . Doesn't verses 34,35 say Jesus would Not speak without a parable or illustration?
Doesn't verse 36 call what Jesus says a parable or illustration? So the wheat and weeds [tares] is an illustration or parable just as Matthew wrote.
'Fire' then is symbolic of destruction. Psalm 92v7 shows the wicked are destroyed forever. They are annihilated forever.

If 'mercy' was for all, then why would Matthew [20v28] say Jesus ransom covers 'many' and not all? All do not accept Jesus teachings when having the opportunity to do so.

 

[Jollybear]

Danny_Heim

My view of hell goes like this:

The “fire” of hell is either the hottest physical flame there is, which means invisible, thus darkness. Or it’s a flame of emotional torment; the guilt keeps burning that soul constantly all the time with the guilt of their sin. In either case, it could be a combination of the two.

Also I believe there are LEVELS of punishment in hell, LEVELS of torment. Some peoples punishment will be less severe, some more severe. A person, who has been more ignorant of God but still had some knowledge and rejected it, will be punished with less severity, and those who have had more knowledge and rejected it, will be punished with more severity.

Also about “ETERNITY” I believe a person will be punished with eternity ONLY if they remain unrepentant in that state of torment. If they repented while in that state, I believe they would get parole and have a chance to get out of hell. You may wonder, well wouldn’t everyone repent then? The answer is no, because first off, if one goes to hell, they are there because they deserve it, there selfishness has brought them there. Now once there their it’s HARDER to repent but not impossible. It’s harder because their selfishness is magnified because of their torment, all they are doing is thinking of themselves, just what they did before they went to hell and that’s why they went to hell in the first place. But if they stopped and realized they deserve where there at in hell and accept it, THAT is when parole happens. But they must do this with all their heart, they can’t fool God.

Also God is JUST, he is a God that loves justice and he is a God of authority and order and law, therefore those that break his laws and ways, he will punish them for it and has every right to do so, and it is REASONABLE for him to do so as well. And not only that, he has provided a way for the sinner to be saved from hell, through his Son Jesus Christ. He did not have to provide this redemption, but he did. So I think God is MORE than fair with us, so if we still reject that plan of redemption, we most certainly deserve hell. First we deserve it because of breaking his laws, secondly we deserve it all the more if we reject his plan of redemption through Christ. Do you think God should let us do anything we want and get away with it? Of course not, if he did that he would not care about what he created. And since he created us, that shows he cares.

Also I have a question for you, how does someone believing in a hell STOP us from evolving?

 

[Beta]

well, sorry, couldn't help it, reading those scriptures put me back there

It's not a good idea to look back friend.
Remember what happened to Lot's wife who looked back. It should serve as an example not to do the same.
When God gives instructions we should follow them . What do you think of the 10 Commandments ?

 

[no-body]

Also I have a question for you, how does someone believing in a hell STOP us from evolving?

How does someone believing in unicorns STOP us from evolving?

It doesn't but brainwashing your friends and family to believe a fiction spreads more gullibility out into the public and that will do more harm than any supposed lack of religion.

You guys are good at quoting scripture but not at answering my philosophical questions. Your ancient philosophy is set in stone and maybe it was once useful to teach people morals, I'll grant you that, but now it is outdated and adds more barbaric behavior than it atones for. More abuse, torture and killings have been done in the name of God than you can credit Satan for no matter what you say about man doing it.

 

[Danny Heim]

This is for, Etritonakin and URAVIP2ME.
I think you guys answered the following question in many ways, but could I please get just a plain old yes or no to it just to make sure?
"And, is it still that one must be "saved"? In other words, pray the sinners prayer and repent/make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior, or go to hell. "

However, I didn't get any answer to the next following question:
"Tell me someone, or all of you. Is this idea of hell that you guys have been talking about a widespread thing in Christianity today, or are the majority still saying we burn forever? "

In other words, are their more or less people in the present Christian population that believe what you all believe, that is, that Hell is not an eternal torment of fire, but instead has all these other variations you all have stated? Also, maybe you can give me your best guess of the percentage breakdown, i.e. x% believe hell is eternal fire and y% is what you all believe. I’d really appreciate that.

Jollybear or Beta could answer this also, all 4 of you guys seem to have a closely related concept of this.

Thanks

 

[Danny Heim]

It's not a good idea to look back friend.
Remember what happened to Lot's wife who looked back. It should serve as an example not to do the same.
When God gives instructions we should follow them . What do you think of the 10 Commandments ?

The not steal not kill part makes sense, the rest I can relate to in a conditional sort of way, except those that demand Jehovah be worshipped, those are absolutely nuts.

 

[Danny Heim]

Also I have a question for you, how does someone believing in a hell STOP us from evolving?

Primarily it is because it is so stupid. Stupidity is a retardant to growth. Evolution of a species of the type I am referring to happens on scale. In other words, it is when pretty much all of the species comes into agreement on a concept then they evolve to that concept. However, note that I am using the term evolve in a loose sort of way, mostly because it seems to fit. But I am not using it scientifically as in Darwin’s theory. I could be saying "raise to a higher consciousness". But the term "evolve" just seems more fitting somehow.

So, if we have a large percentage of our population believing in something stupid like Hell, and we seem to, then the net result is a stagnated consciousness. However, from what you, Beta, Etritonakin and URAVIP2ME believe, it sounds like the concept is not as stupid as it has been, and maybe we have a chance to break the mold. that is if your belief is widespread among the Christian community, I hope to get an answer to that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is a difference between being widespread among the Christian community and being wide spread in Christendom which is Not genuine 1st-century Christianity, but 'Christian' in name only. Jesus forewarned 'many' would come 'in his name' but prove false according to Matthew chapter 7.

After the first century ended, developing Christendom adopted many pagan ideas and beliefs and blended or fused them into traditional teachings outside of Scripture teaching pagan concepts as Scripture.

There will be No wide spread returning to the beliefs of 1st-century Christianity because as Jesus mentioned 'many' would prove false and they do not have the love of the truth.
In general there is no love for the religious truth of the Bible but people want to have religious teachers in order to have their ears tickled, so to speak. -2nd Tim 4v3.

In ancient times when the people fell away and began mixing with pagan worship God allowed the nation to be overtaken by the political or military world at that time.
Such as when ancient Israel was captured by Babylon.
Since Christendom [so-called Christianity] has run amok proving itself false to God and Jesus, then God will allow backing the United Nations military 'ax' to rid the earth of her.
-[Rev. chapters 17,18]

 

[DoctorAnswerMan]

Jesus did Not have fear of the unknown.
Jesus wasn't teaching natural or un-natural instinct .
Animals go by instinct. Humans have a conscience to guide them.

Jesus knew hell was the stone-cold common grave of mankind.
Wolf-like clergy dressed in sheep's clothing use fire as scare tactics in other to fleece the flock for their own agenda, often political.

Jesus believed the dead are in a deep sleep-like state as he said at John 11vs11-14. That is why when Jesus was in hell [Acts 2vs27,31] Jesus knew he would Not be conscious again until God resurrected him. -Ecc 9v5.

The word Gehenna is often translated as hellfire. What was Gehenna?
Gehenna was a garbage dump where things were destroyed Not kept burning forever. So Gehenna [hellfire] is a Bible symbol of destruction not forever burning. Wicked are destroyed or annihilated see Psalm 92v7.

Ge-henna refers to 'the valley of the Sons of Hinnom.' Correct?

 

[Etritonakin]

Primarily it is because it is so stupid. Stupidity is a retardant to growth. Evolution of a species of the type I am referring to happens on scale. In other words, it is when pretty much all of the species comes into agreement on a concept then they evolve to that concept. However, note that I am using the term evolve in a loose sort of way, mostly because it seems to fit. But I am not using it scientifically as in Darwin’s theory. I could be saying "raise to a higher consciousness". But the term "evolve" just seems more fitting somehow.

So, if we have a large percentage of our population believing in something stupid like Hell, and we seem to, then the net result is a stagnated consciousness. However, from what you, Beta, Etritonakin and URAVIP2ME believe, it sounds like the concept is not as stupid as it has been, and maybe we have a chance to break the mold. that is if your belief is widespread among the Christian community, I hope to get an answer to that.

Hmmmmm.... Given the great number of preachers preaching different things, it is doubtful that all who profess belief in Christ would come to an agreement on the subject of hell. I previoulsy frequented a more religious forum which was supposed to allow for just that sort of exchange and possible agreement, but most there didn't seem to have any interest in examining the validity -even biblical -of their own beliefs.

Many "Christians" believe that faith is believing what they believe no matter what may challenge it -and cling to things which aren't actually supported by scripture due to the idea that all that they believe must be true for any of it to be true. They have not proven what they believe, are not willing to challenge it even in their own minds and are therefore rather insecure in their beliefs -which affects how they react to those who challenge their beliefs. A real exchange of ideas is rather impossible. This blinds them even to the truths of God.

Everything above is also very true of scientists/evolutionists who deny the possibility of the existence of God and believe their assumptions -based on evidence but not proven thereby -to be correct.... all without a shred of proof. Some things about evolution are 100 percent true -and some are scientific wild guesses inspired by the proven -are not actually proven themselves -yet are put forth by scientists as irrefutable facts. Their absolute unwillingness to believe in the possibility of God or that the natural world was initiated or affected by such a creative being is not true to scientific method.

For example:

Those who do not believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and was created with the "appearance of age" are correct in doing so -and even in pointing out proof thereof to those who do, but the entire concept of God cannot be ruled out because some make false assertions about what is contained in the bible. Doubting God exists based on perception of evidence thus far is understandable, but denial without real evidence hinders scientific discovery.

Likewise, those who believe in God are correct in pointing out that science has not disproven God by scientific method, that there is much evidence in the natural world which suggests it has been affected by -even initiated by -a creative intellect... but should accept what science has actually proven. If God does exist, and the things of God are apparent in what was made, as stated in the bible, it could only serve to help understand him more deeply.

It is actually easier -from what I have seen -for a religious person to accept scientific fact than for a scientific person to accept some spiritual truths.

Scientific fact may be hidden from discovery by location, perception, etc... but does not purposefully elude scientists. Facts concerning the positive effects of adherence to the ten commandments on a society, for example -can be known (many blame the "Christian" religion for some horrible historical events, but those who perpetrated such obvioulsy weren't obeying the commandments -and are themselves to blame -not religion), but God himself is able to elude detection -and is even quoted as saying he will do just that when necessary to accomplish his purpose.

Biblically, it is stated that none can come to God except if God first "calls" them. He initiates contact. It also says he is not calling all mankind from Adam until the return of Christ -but only "firstfruits" -and that some are not called until after death -when resurrected.

So -while it is fruitful for them to put correct information before the public for those who have an interest, it is pointless to think that they can bring one to God whom God has not yet called.
Though some are not yet called (even many "believers" have not yet truly been called!), the way information is presented could cause people to be more accepting of the religious, and even cause them to accept some beneficial aspects of religion -whereas freaking out, telling people they're "goin' ta hell", etc... benefits no one. Likewise, scientists denying believers jobs and claiming God is impossible is no way to further the "evolution" of which you speak. (not saying you would do that)

I'm probably starting to ramble here, so I'll conclude by saying....

Our collective minds will be changed by what happens in the future.

Many have been turned from religion by false claims of the date of the "end of the world (age)" or whatever -and if what is (actually) written in the bible never happens, people will slowly leave it behind. There is a specific timeline given in the bible (though only the Father knows the day or hour of Christ's return, there are markers -specific events -which are to show that the time is very near), and after so long it would be obviously untrue. However, the things written in bible prophecy ARE taking place -so don't expect this to happen. I'm not talking about verses applied after the fact, but world events declared before they happen -though some who are not interested would not look into the subject very deeply. If these things do not happen, these ideas would fade soon enough, but if they do happen.... those who deny God's existence will be too busy trying to survive in the "great tribulation", which is to decimate the earth's population, to be trying to un-convince believers -not to mention they might actually be one of the remnant alive to see Christ actually return, or, having died, being raised from the dead and looking straight at God. These things would probably make them re-examine their beliefs!

So just be good to folks and don't get caught up in all the freakiness!

 

[Beta]

This is for, Etritonakin and URAVIP2ME.
I think you guys answered the following question in many ways, but could I please get just a plain old yes or no to it just to make sure?
"And, is it still that one must be "saved"? In other words, pray the sinners prayer and repent/make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior, or go to hell. "

However, I didn't get any answer to the next following question:
"Tell me someone, or all of you. Is this idea of hell that you guys have been talking about a widespread thing in Christianity today, or are the majority still saying we burn forever? "

In other words, are their more or less people in the present Christian population that believe what you all believe, that is, that Hell is not an eternal torment of fire, but instead has all these other variations you all have stated? Also, maybe you can give me your best guess of the percentage breakdown, i.e. x% believe hell is eternal fire and y% is what you all believe. I’d really appreciate that.

Jollybear or Beta could answer this also, all 4 of you guys seem to have a closely related concept of this.

Thanks

It matters not whether a belief is widespread or not - what matters is whether it is TRUE or not.
Rev.12v9 says the whole world is deceived (obviously believing the wrong thing) this should give you a % of who is right and who is not.

 

[Noaidi]

Rev.12v9 says the whole world is deceived (obviously believing the wrong thing) this should give you a % of who is right and who is not.

That would make it 100%, right? Does that 100% include christians (you know, the ones that believe in the real truth?)

 

[Etritonakin]

Matthew 13v34 is clear that Jesus would only speak to the people in parables or illustrations.
Luke chapter 16 is No exception. Luke 16 is an illustration and Not a literal happening.

So what is Luke 16 saying?
Therein we have a rich man "being in torments" -asking that Lazarus bring him some water because he was "tormented in this flame". When his request was denied due to the guulf fixed between them, he prayed that Lazarus be made alive to go to the rich man's family -to prevent them from having the same thing happen to them. The response was that not even a man raised from the dead would prevent such -and his request was denied. HOWEVER, please note that the rich man
himself would not be kept from what happened to him by any means BUT THAT HE -ONLY BY BEING TORMENTED IN THE FLAME -FINALLY BELIEVED ENOUGH. HE BELIEVED ENOUGH TO WANT TO WARN HIS FAMILY -TO KEEP THEM FROM IT.

This parable does not say he was then completely destroyed or that he was then forgiven, but other scriptures do say both that some will be literally tormented by fire -and that some will be SAVED thereby! All verses concerning the subject must be taken together!

If he were THEN given an opportunity, would he not behave differently -not only hearing it was true, but feeling it?

It is understandable not to want to believe that God would ever do such a thing, but that is simply not the case.
Scripture is quite clear about there being a whole lot of hurt stored up for those who oppose God even while alive...
What of the seven last -literal -plagues?....

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

...and...

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Beta]

The not steal not kill part makes sense, the rest I can relate to in a conditional sort of way, except those that demand Jehovah be worshipped, those are absolutely nuts.

Ex.20v1 , GOD spoke the 10 Commandments PERSONALLY to the people - HIS Words.
Are you saying YOU / WE can pick and choose which ones we agree with and which we reject ?
By that act alone God sees our attitude and we exclude ourselves from further enlightenment . It shows our willingness to learn more - or not ! Sticking 2 fingers up at God won't help our cause :no:

 

[Etritonakin]

could I please get just a plain old yes or no to it just to make sure?
"And, is it still that one must be "saved"? In other words, pray the sinners prayer and repent/make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior, or go to hell. "

To give a yes or no answer would require clarification of the question, but... Yes. One must eventually repent or be cast into the "lake of fire" -which is not the popular concept of hell. Some may repent after being cast into the lake of fire. ....and ..... No. Some who have never heard of Christ or the ten commandments -but have nonetheless done good works while alive -will NOT be cast into the lake of fire -such would not have any problem obeying God -especially after seeing him in person. They will be resurrected and made immortal -though at the SECOND resurrection -also called the "great white throne" judgment. The FIRST resurrection -when Christ returns -is for all those whom God has called
from Adam to the return of Christ -they are the "firstfruits" who will reign as immortals with Christ on earth during the "millenium". The SECOND resurrection is for ALL others -and is after the millenium. The second resurrection is 1,000 years after the first resurrection. Those in the first resurrection will have a higher office than those in the second, but leadership then will not be as it is now. It will not be selfish tyranny, but those who lead will be as servants -ACTUALLY being concerned with everyone's happiness and well-being -and even resposible for it! They will spend eternity working FOR others -not as it is today, where people work for the comfort of leaders who often do not have their best interest at heart.

As things progress -that is, when the world begins to experience the "great tribulation", and those who believe they were to be raptured before it or protected from it and are not -and other such things -or those who don't believe in God begin to do so having heard prophecy concerning what is about to happen, etc... more and more people WILL believe this way -especially considering God will send 144,000 servants into the tribulation (not all believe this) to minister to others during that time. It is said that a great multitude will be saved out of the tribulation... to the first resurrection.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
.......Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

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To add to the above post, the commandments concerning worshipping Jehovah seem ridiculous and unnecessary to those who do not believe he exists, or that he is indeed who he claims to be. If you had personally experienced the things recorded anciently, you might feel differenty. If you saw the events of the passover in Egypt -the plagues, and death of the firstborn, the parting of the Red Sea and destruction of Pharaoh's forces, a burning bush which was not consumed and the voice of God, manna from heaven (people still grumbled against God for having to wander through the desert), Jehovah going before them in a pillar of fire by night and smoke by day -actually seeing the back part of his actual body as Moses did -seeing tablets of stone written upon by the hand of God, etc....

Seeing miraculous things can and will be deceiving, but it might at least make you think. The truth is much more important, and seeing such is not necessary to prove God exists -wanting to do so is necessary until he is standing right in front of you, but sincerely obeying him IS necessary to prove his character -as were all of the events of history.

 

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That would make it 100%, right? Does that 100% include christians (you know, the ones that believe in the real truth?)

If the whole world is deceived how can it be 100 % right ???