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Let's talk about Hell
- Thread starter Danny Heim
- Start date
Depends on how one wants to interpret that verse.
Here's what I see based on what I have learned in my rightful old age:
"The wages of sin" can only be paid when work is done, mainly in the flesh, thus, prior to Christ, both the flesh and the spirit were dead and in need of reviving.
"the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus" is what it is "a gift" having nothing to do with works in the flesh, for works in the flesh have an end, and ends with physical death.
But our spirits maybe revived prior to death of the flesh, but if not....then at death shall the spirit soul bow at the feet of Jesus and know Him for who He really is.
We all know that scripture can be interpreted in may ways giving rise to many different beliefs.
But if we look at scripture as a whole, seek God's works in all of it, we shall see that God's creative work, His love for His work, and the salvation of His work of which He alone can order.
Blessings, AJ
A note of interest: if Jesus was to pay the price for the soul of mankind, what suppose was His sin?
If the sin of mankind was upon His shoulders, than as a sheep to the slaughter, the sins of the world were upon Him, and we are the escaped goats, sort of speak.
Jesus must needs have been sent to hell for all those sins, in order that "the meat you know not of", He may consume with His love, and free them all up, for death and hell followed Him.
If we are to argue what hell is, then we shall miss the whole point of His coming.
Blessings, AJ
If the sin of mankind was upon His shoulders, than as a sheep to the slaughter, the sins of the world were upon Him, and we are the escaped goats, sort of speak.
Jesus must needs have been sent to hell for all those sins, in order that "the meat you know not of", He may consume with His love, and free them all up, for death and hell followed Him.
If we are to argue what hell is, then we shall miss the whole point of His coming.
Blessings, AJ
On the Day of Atonement two [2] goats were used. One goat was sacrificed as a sin offering, and the other goat was designated for 'Azazel' and was sent away... Lev 16vs1-27 - Thus the expression: Scape Goat.
Jesus had no sin according to Scripture. Jesus died faithful sinless.
All dead go to hell at death including Jesus-[Acts 2vs27,31].
It isn't hell [gravedom Ecc 9v5] that pays for our sins.
According to Romans [6v23] it is 'death' that pays the asking price for our sins.
Except for those of Matt [12v32], death frees or acquits a person from sins.
'Death' stamps the price tag of sin as 'PAID IN FULL' according to Romans 6v7.
Since that does not mean innocent we can not resurrect oneself or another.
We need a savior to do that for us. Jesus dying faithful provides the ransom for us.
Also, Jesus as Savior or Deliverer will intervene to keep alive the sheep-like ones living at the time of Jesus 'glory' or divine intervention into mankind's affairs at the time of Matthew [25vs31,32] when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill starting with the living sheep-like ones first, before the resurrection of the dead begins during Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth. -Acts 24v15.
Jesus had no sin according to Scripture. Jesus died faithful sinless.
All dead go to hell at death including Jesus-[Acts 2vs27,31].
It isn't hell [gravedom Ecc 9v5] that pays for our sins.
According to Romans [6v23] it is 'death' that pays the asking price for our sins.
Except for those of Matt [12v32], death frees or acquits a person from sins.
'Death' stamps the price tag of sin as 'PAID IN FULL' according to Romans 6v7.
Since that does not mean innocent we can not resurrect oneself or another.
We need a savior to do that for us. Jesus dying faithful provides the ransom for us.
Also, Jesus as Savior or Deliverer will intervene to keep alive the sheep-like ones living at the time of Jesus 'glory' or divine intervention into mankind's affairs at the time of Matthew [25vs31,32] when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill starting with the living sheep-like ones first, before the resurrection of the dead begins during Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth. -Acts 24v15.
David69
Angel Of The North
With GOD Hell is a place of ' destruction ' not creation.
Science (man) has got this back to front !
You beleive what you are told to beleive!!!
"Jesus had no sin according to Scripture" True
"Jesus died faithful sinless" not true.
Jesus was that sacrifice sin offering, thus Jesus had the sins of the world on Him, otherwise, He would have never gone to hell.
Abraham=God
Issac=Us
Goat sacrificed=Jesus
It was designed that way.
Your right, except Jesus goes to hell to receive His kingdom, our sins wouldn't be paid for in full.
.
In short: "The wages of sin is death".
Absolutely!
Now on your next paragraph I will give you a different perspective: not the norm.
Jesus' 1,000 year reign is as one day is a thousand years.
The day Jesus was crucified is the day as a thousand years.
Consider and reason, if the day Jesus was crucified was taken out of time, meaning infinitely, only means that that day can cover "all" time.
Thus, Jesus' sacrifice was once and for all time, that could only be accomplished by taking it out of the time slot and used for all eternity.
Our being born again, yet while in the flesh makes us new creatures of that heavenly kingdom with only the body to prevent us from getting there.
What you read in the book of Revelation is about what Jesus went through to accomplish His work in number, metaphors and in similitude's.
Read: Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ......of who?
And what followed Him? Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
In that verse you would think devouring right? Yes, Jesus devoured all sin, death and hell with the love of God, cast it into the lake (Love) of fire (God's fire) conquering all.
Death and hell: Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us
Return) for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,(The road to the cross)then ye (Jesus) shall be trodden down by it. (Crucified)
Now consider this thought: If Jesus was to come and bring peace to the earth, deliver us all from sin on earth, what suppose would there be for any of us to do any good, having all evil being done away with?
I mean, was it not all intent and purposes for the tree of knowledge of good and evil planted on the earth and the tree of life withheld?
If one has Jesus now, then there is no need to hope for His coming because He has already come within our hearts.
He is our hope now!
Blessings, AJ
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Christ did not sin.
If he had sinned, he would have died for HIS sins. Because he did not, he was able to die IN OUR STEAD.
Christ did not have to "go to hell" -except hades -the grave -the "sign of Jonah"
No man has "gone to hell" -except the grave. As written, the body returns to dust -and the spirit to God who gave it. The beast and false prophet are the first to be cast into gehenna -and Satan about a thousand years later. No others will be cast into gehenna until the judgment after the thousand years -to the second resurrection -a thousand years after the first resurrection.
Christ may be in one's heart, but we still have reason to hope for his coming.
You will either die or live until he returns in power and glory. If you are "in Christ", you will not be made immortal until he comes. This is something to hope for. It is not figurative -it is quite literal. Revelation is not simply describing what was -but what will be. The following -from the old testament -should make this very clear.... it will literally happen...
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
The following does not say there is no need to hope for his coming -quite the opposite. Notice ARE is in italics. The meaning of the verses is that the hope of those writing IS in the presence, of those addressed, in the Lord at his coming -not that he has already come. They may have been "as good as" present at the yet-future return of Christ so long as they remained obedient and faithful, but they still had reason to hope for his yet-future literal return in power and glory.
1Th 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at hiscoming?
1Th 2:20 For ye are our glory and joy.
Christ did say that HE (not another person) would come to them by the spirit of God (erroneously personified in the surrounding scriptures) -the comforter...
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
...but the same Christ told us to hope for resurrection AT THE LAST DAY.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
We definitely have reason to hope for his coming -because if he does not, we can not then be made immortal -because no man that has ever lived has yet been changed (except, technically, Christ). When will we be changed if we are IN CHRIST???
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The last trump is when Christ returns -when the kingdoms of the earth LITERALLY become HIS...
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And we certainly have hope in this day -yet future -as those in Christ will literally rule with him -as kings and priests -on earth -having been changed into immortals -for the thousand years following his literal return to earth in power and glory....
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
If he had sinned, he would have died for HIS sins. Because he did not, he was able to die IN OUR STEAD.
Christ did not have to "go to hell" -except hades -the grave -the "sign of Jonah"
No man has "gone to hell" -except the grave. As written, the body returns to dust -and the spirit to God who gave it. The beast and false prophet are the first to be cast into gehenna -and Satan about a thousand years later. No others will be cast into gehenna until the judgment after the thousand years -to the second resurrection -a thousand years after the first resurrection.
Christ may be in one's heart, but we still have reason to hope for his coming.
You will either die or live until he returns in power and glory. If you are "in Christ", you will not be made immortal until he comes. This is something to hope for. It is not figurative -it is quite literal. Revelation is not simply describing what was -but what will be. The following -from the old testament -should make this very clear.... it will literally happen...
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
The following does not say there is no need to hope for his coming -quite the opposite. Notice ARE is in italics. The meaning of the verses is that the hope of those writing IS in the presence, of those addressed, in the Lord at his coming -not that he has already come. They may have been "as good as" present at the yet-future return of Christ so long as they remained obedient and faithful, but they still had reason to hope for his yet-future literal return in power and glory.
1Th 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at hiscoming?
1Th 2:20 For ye are our glory and joy.
Christ did say that HE (not another person) would come to them by the spirit of God (erroneously personified in the surrounding scriptures) -the comforter...
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
...but the same Christ told us to hope for resurrection AT THE LAST DAY.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
We definitely have reason to hope for his coming -because if he does not, we can not then be made immortal -because no man that has ever lived has yet been changed (except, technically, Christ). When will we be changed if we are IN CHRIST???
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The last trump is when Christ returns -when the kingdoms of the earth LITERALLY become HIS...
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And we certainly have hope in this day -yet future -as those in Christ will literally rule with him -as kings and priests -on earth -having been changed into immortals -for the thousand years following his literal return to earth in power and glory....
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
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You are absolutely correct!!!!!!!!!!!!
But in order for Jesus to take away your sins, He has to take your sins as His and nail them to the cross! Thus, Jesus had to, willingly, pay the price for your sins.
Think for a moment on this one.-----------------ok?
If you were destined for hell, because of your sins, and Jesus comes along and says, I'll take your place, where do you suppose Jesus had to go in order to do that?
Yes, Jesus did come!
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
What you have here is a similarity to other stories in the bible giving a spiritual message.
In this case God is bringing the whole world to bare on Christ's (Jerusalem) shoulders, as He is the one that is going to deliver all as promised. (One can see the world against Jerusalem)
Yet a residue is left as is today as a testimony to that fact.
God includes all as in "fight against those nations" which if you think about it, was not Jesus abandoned as in the whole world left Him alone to die alone?
The sheep were scattered around the world.
Question to you? Are you born again, and do you consider yourself of the new heavenly kingdom?
If so, then you are in, and no need to wait for Jesus because He is already in your heart.
Live your remaining days of your life in that state, as a member of His family.
"Are you not even" is present tense,"in the presence" as even now?
"For ye are" again present tense and not future tense.
Christ, He is the spirit of God coming to us as the Comforter, as He-Jesus is who is in you as God and as the spirit of God.
How else could one be born again, if not in spirit of God?
"The last days" belong to Christ!
You see, if the old is to be done away with, and usher in the new, there must be a last day for old to be done with.
Read: Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
The New Jerusalem was established on top of the hill, Golgotha, exalted above all the hills, (Here hills meaning all governments or authorities) and set up as a standard by which "all nations shall flow unto it". (The cross)
Jesus also said at the Lord's supper "Joh 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
The end not yet is in reference to Jesus not yet gone to the cross, but afterwords, all those things shall happen to them.
What Jesus came to do was recreate spiritually that which was lost in the original creation, that of the flesh.
You notice that the flesh still dies? That has not changed and the end of that only God knows when.
But the end of the original "lost condition" as in the Old, that was done away with, to where the new now exists as accessible by all in Jesus, and of which there is no end to.
So your hope is, that now you have Jesus, are a member of His family, is to one day be with Him in person, face to face.
That you can live with in the here and now as a desired hope and of which to the world around you, be as a testimony, a light in a dark world, to lead others to Christ as you have.
Blessings, AJ
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying -are you saying that because some will eventually be cast into the lake of fire -that Christ was cast into the lake of fire -and tormented by flames?
This is is no way scriptural. We are destined for death because of sin. Christ was tormented by man -there is no need of him being tormented in gehenna.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
The above does not apply to you -at least not yet. It will only apply to you when the following occurs...
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
As for the rest... when it happens, you will understand that it is literal.
The most important thing is to do what is right -not so much to understand exactly what will become of you if you do so -as it's bound to be good.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Beats me, Danny. I'm a Christian and I've certainly never been taught that it works this way. I know there are Christians who believe this, though. I think that, for them, it's a necessary belief. They can't be satisfied knowing that God loves them. They're not really happy unless He hates other people.
Lets concentrate on Jesus paying for your sins first.
The bible states: Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Taste of death is defined not as the physical death, for all of us must face death one day, but spiritual death.
Spiritual death was our curse, and Jesus took it away for us by He paying the price of eternal separation, or in other words eternal death.
Jesus having paid the price for spiritual death, now includes all mankind into the lake of fire.
Let's define lake of fire in spiritual terms.
A lake is a picture of a large body of water right?
Fire, in spiritual terms is the movement of God in spirit in us that can convict us of any wrong doing, or as like a fire burning in us, or a cleansing by the spirit.
The passion one has for God can be said to be as like a fire burning within us.
The bible states: Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
So what I am looking at is that God's judgment is fire. Jesus was tried by fire, God's judgment for our sins.
So fire, lake of fire is God's judgment of all humanity, water being a symbol for people, so the lake is a body of people tried by God's fire, love.
Blessings, AJ
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo ...when Christ supposedly "went to hell" -he went to a body of people tried by love?
I'm still not understanding you, I guess.
Christ tasted of actual physical death by being beaten and tortured -to death.
The Lord IS a consuming fire -
AND some will actually -literally -be cast into an actual fire.
Christ did not die spiritually -his spirit was not destroyed -but ours MAY BE.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the [spirit]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both [spirit] and body in [gehenna].
I'm still not understanding you, I guess.
Christ tasted of actual physical death by being beaten and tortured -to death.
The Lord IS a consuming fire -
AND some will actually -literally -be cast into an actual fire.
Christ did not die spiritually -his spirit was not destroyed -but ours MAY BE.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the [spirit]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both [spirit] and body in [gehenna].
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Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Christ definitely went to "hell" -as in hades/sheol -the grave -which have nothing to do with fire -but not gehennna... which does.
We see that they are different things...
Rev 20:14 And death and hell (hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death
We see that they are different things...
Rev 20:14 And death and hell (hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death
Yes, read: speaking of Jesus: Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
If God is not silent to Jesus on the cross, than the following would not take place: Psa 28:1 <A Psalm of David.> Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
Psa 88:4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:
Psa 88:6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. Hell suppose?
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, (singular)and shall be shut up in the prison,(One place) and after many days shall they be visited.
Who will visit them in the pit, hell, the prison ? Eze 28:8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
After Jesus had gone to the cross, the end came and the new beginning began with His resurrection.
Mean time while He was in hell: Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
There you have Jesus visiting the souls in hell, and remaining there for the two days, and on the third day, raises them all up towards heaven, emptying hell as it were.
The gates/bars that kept those prisoners in are: Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
Jesus would not be kept there: Psa 9:13 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; consider my trouble which I suffer of them that hate me, thou that liftest me up from the gates of death: (Death being done away with)
Gates/bars broken both in hell and in heaven. Psa 107:16 For he hath broken the gates of brass,(Symbolic for heavens gates) and cut the bars of iron (symbolic for gates of hell)in sunder.
Isa 45:2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
That those gates be opened continually: Isa 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
Lam 2:9 Her gates are sunk into the ground; he hath destroyed and broken her bars: her king and her princes are among the Gentiles: the law is no more; her prophets also find no vision from the LORD.
And finally, knowledge of the light of God destroys the lack of knowledge (darkness) to where there no longer darkness exists. Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
In summary: The place where souls were held was but a holding place because as of Jesus, there was no saving grace for all who lived and died before Christ.
So God sent Jesus to them to liberate them, break open the bars of iron that held them prisoners, and also brake open the brass gates of heaven which were also shut.
Last verses ref: Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
To where now: Death and held are all consumed by the fire of the love of God: Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
In other words, the catch all as in the following verse:Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Meaning, that because Jesus done away with death and hell, there exists no second death, for Jesus in His love for the Fathers' will, hath consumed all of it in love.
Blessings, AJ
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Dude -no. Just plain no. Nope -nay -uh uh.
Christ went and preached to THE DEMONS -THE FALLEN ANGELS -NOT AFTER HE WAS CRUCIFIED -BUT WAY BACK IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, ETC.... AND THOSE WHO DO NOT REPENT MAY STILL BE COMPLETELY DESTROYED -BECAUSE THE THINGS WRITTEN IN 20:14 HAPPEN 1,000 YEARS AFTER CHRIST RETURNS -WHICH IS YET FUTURE.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their firstestate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
THESE ARE THE "SPIRITS IN PRISON" IN.....
but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Christ went and preached to THE DEMONS -THE FALLEN ANGELS -NOT AFTER HE WAS CRUCIFIED -BUT WAY BACK IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, ETC.... AND THOSE WHO DO NOT REPENT MAY STILL BE COMPLETELY DESTROYED -BECAUSE THE THINGS WRITTEN IN 20:14 HAPPEN 1,000 YEARS AFTER CHRIST RETURNS -WHICH IS YET FUTURE.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their firstestate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
THESE ARE THE "SPIRITS IN PRISON" IN.....
but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Now I want to shed some light in another application of the same verse above, but in as a spiritual message.
The Jewish people were chosen to adhere to the law of God in the Ten Commandments, and also usher in the Messiah. (First estate)
If chosen, to become the fallen for the furtherance of the Gospel of Christ by having them reject Christ, then they are as angels but fallen.
Now reserved in chains is meaning that they are still blinded, still not being able to see Jesus for who His is, or in other words, still in darkness about Him.
The judgment of that great day, was the judgment of Christ for the sins of the world where by you and I can go free.
Though Christ was already judged, hung on the cross and went to hell, God did not leave Him there, for God raised Jesus and all those there to a heavenly abode.
Darkness is upon the Jewish nation until God decides to open their eyes, and they will all become believers of Christ.
You may not see this application of it, but it holds water, in that Jesus came to redeem that which was lost, and give life to it.
Blessings, AJ
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
No -I don't see that application of it because that's not what it is talking about.
Most anything is analogous to something else, but spiritualizing away the actual meaning of what is written is not good. It might be similar to what you are saying, but has nothing to do with what you are saying.
Most anything is analogous to something else, but spiritualizing away the actual meaning of what is written is not good. It might be similar to what you are saying, but has nothing to do with what you are saying.
Wotan
Active Member
50 pages of much ado abut nothing.
You guys are arguing over a hateful medieval MYTH.
There is less truth in this collection of absurdities than there is in the Iliad.
You got a god? Bring it around for a chat.
Absent that you got NOTING. Just ink stains that have dried on some line. You have NO testable verifiable objective evidence of any of this crap.
Gezz, what a waste of otherwise useful bandwidth.
You guys are arguing over a hateful medieval MYTH.
There is less truth in this collection of absurdities than there is in the Iliad.
You got a god? Bring it around for a chat.
Absent that you got NOTING. Just ink stains that have dried on some line. You have NO testable verifiable objective evidence of any of this crap.
Gezz, what a waste of otherwise useful bandwidth.
indian tea
Purveyor of Rare Herbs
50 pages about New Jersey....unbelievable
one comment, lake of fire= water
uh yeah...that's logic
perhaps a lake of fire is uh...a lake of fire
one comment, lake of fire= water
uh yeah...that's logic
perhaps a lake of fire is uh...a lake of fire
Twig pentagram
High Priest
**** hell.