Let's talk about Hell

[outhouse]

being as well read as you say you are, it surprises me that you are not able to discern the difference between doctrine and the bible

they are completely different, yet you are basing your view of the bible on the doctrines of man

you seem capable of separating the two, yet you dont...why is that?

I base my view of the bible on its accurate historocity.

You can see the fiction added freely at will. You can see the dogma take shape into its present form.

You can see how ancient man came up with these ridiculous quotes through there imganination of what they did not know.

You can clearly see how the hebrew god was created and put in place and then laughingly watch as god tranforms magically in the NT to a kinder god that is more pleasant to the masses. in my opinion

Much the same way you can see grave turn into the fiery hell added 725 years after jesus was dead to enrich the dogma.

 

[outhouse]

and this is what we teach hell to be... the grave. The post you are replying to says exactly that. So whats the problem exactly???

pegg if you think grave is hell then we have no problem and we see eye to eye :bow:

and you are one of the few that really understands how to read the bible.

many people dont. The current dogma is that of fire and eternal damnation and torture and suffering forever with a red devil with horns lol.

 

[Pegg]

pegg if you think grave is hell then we have no problem and we see eye to eye :bow:

and you are one of the few that really understands how to read the bible.

many people dont. The current dogma is that of fire and eternal damnation and torture and suffering forever with a red devil with horns lol.

there are many christian denominations...the church is greatly divided

many christians realise that any church that teaches things which are not in the bible (such as hell as being a firery place of torment) are not true christian churches...they are deviating from what Christ and the Apostles taught and therefore they do not represent the bible.

and the other problem is that there are many more christians who dont study the bible at all so they never realise that what they are being taught is a lie. But i dont blame God or the bible for that...we have to take responsibility for what we believe and learn and are taught. No one should sit back and be spoonfed.

 

[outhouse]

True

excellent view Pegg

 

[horiturk]

hell is made up by men to control other men,period.if you think it is logically possible to go through this hobbesian life only to end up in eternal torment in an undying spiritual body for not believing something for which there is no evidence..... then you need to get your head checked.

 

[Beta]

many christians realise that any church that teaches things which are not in the bible (such as hell as being a firery place of torment) are not true christian churches...they are deviating from what Christ and the Apostles taught and therefore they do not represent the bible.

On this I am in total agreement with you. There is no eternal firery torment for man being mortal will burn up Mal.4v3. Hell as ref in the Bible is simply the grave with Jesus himself having been there for 3 days and 3 nights Acts 2v31.
A lot of disagreements arise when people conclude all Christians to be of the 'eternal torment or immortal soul' belief. Some of us are not and have a different understanding of the Bible.

 

[David69]

peg and beta... whats the propper bible iyo?

thanks
David

 

[Pegg]

On this I am in total agreement with you. There is no eternal firery torment for man being mortal will burn up Mal.4v3. Hell as ref in the Bible is simply the grave with Jesus himself having been there for 3 days and 3 nights Acts 2v31.
A lot of disagreements arise when people conclude all Christians to be of the 'eternal torment or immortal soul' belief. Some of us are not and have a different understanding of the Bible.

thats right. I wonder how many christians recognize that Jesus parable of the 'wheat and the weeds' is actually talking about christians themselves??

 

[Beta]

thats right. I wonder how many christians recognize that Jesus parable of the 'wheat and the weeds' is actually talking about christians themselves??

There is bound to be a mixture of beliefs since there are true and false Christians predicted by Jesus Himself Mat.24v4,5.
This alone presents a difficult situation without unbelievers presenting their opinions. Is it any wonder this world is deceived and confused Rev.12v9 ?

 

[Pegg]

peg and beta... whats the proper bible iyo?

thanks
David

obviously, the best bible is the one you read in the hebrew or greek text.

But for english translations the modern translations are the best ones because they are easy to read and understand but most of them will have some issue you'll need to contend with.
The best are those translated directly from the original language manuscripts. But not all modern translations are consistent with how they render different words. It makes it difficult sometimes so you get yourself a 'reference' bible you'll be able to see footnotes for words and their original meanings. Unless of course you trust the translators enough to take their renderings as they give them.

You should also compare what you read with an interlinear...this is a word for word literal translation from hebrew to english or greek to english.
studying the bible is not as simple as picking up a translation and reading it...you have to also look at the original words and find out what they mean.


I use a number of translations but obviously prefer the New World Translation. The American Standard version is also a good one to use as its fairly consistent with its words.

 

[David69]

obviously, the best bible is the one you read in the hebrew or greek text.

But for english translations the modern translations are the best ones because they are easy to read and understand but most of them will have some issue you'll need to contend with.
The best are those translated directly from the original language manuscripts. But not all modern translations are consistent with how they render different words. It makes it difficult sometimes so you get yourself a 'reference' bible you'll be able to see footnotes for words and their original meanings. Unless of course you trust the translators enough to take their renderings as they give them.

You should also compare what you read with an interlinear...this is a word for word literal translation from hebrew to english or greek to english.
studying the bible is not as simple as picking up a translation and reading it...you have to also look at the original words and find out what they mean.


I use a number of translations but obviously prefer the New World Translation. The American Standard version is also a good one to use as its fairly consistent with its words.

Thanks for the link

 

[Beta]

peg and beta... whats the propper bible iyo?

thanks
David

Not sure there is a 'proper' Bible. I started out with the KJV some years ago (late in life) and have stayed with it , occasionally ref the NIV. I rely mostly on GOD helping my understanding rather than relying overly on various translations. It seems to have worked so far !

 

[David69]

Not sure there is a 'proper' Bible. I started out with the KJV some years ago (late in life) and have stayed with it , occasionally ref the NIV. I rely mostly on GOD helping my understanding rather than relying overly on various translations. It seems to have worked so far !

Thanks

I am of no religion and I find all the different versions confusing and conflicting.

I have a problem with some christian group beleifs and I relise that many religions are taken from one and are changed for reasons that probably best suit them for some kinda gain! thats why I want to get to the religion before the book was changed! not to good at wording things so please excuse me

 

[Beta]

Thanks

I am of no religion and I find all the different versions confusing and conflicting.

I have a problem with some christian group beleifs and I relise that many religions are taken from one and are changed for reasons that probably best suit them for some kinda gain! thats why I want to get to the religion before the book was changed! not to good at wording things so please excuse me

I'm just a Bible-Christian if that means anything to you. Not really familiar with all the translations, least of Hebrew or Greek to which so many ascribe their knowledge. God tells us not to rely on our own understanding but trust in the Lord. That's good enough for me being a simple peasant from far-away mountains.

 

[David69]

I'm just a Bible-Christian if that means anything to you. Not really familiar with all the translations, least of Hebrew or Greek to which so many ascribe their knowledge. God tells us not to rely on our own understanding but trust in the Lord. That's good enough for me being a simple peasant from far-away mountains.

Thanks.

Christians will see me as the jewish devil but its a shame because although I dont beleive Jesus to be the messiah, I do recognise him as part of the messiah and a part of myself!
And hell is a place within our subconscious!

 

[Beta]

Thanks.

Christians will see me as the jewish devil but its a shame because although I dont beleive Jesus to be the messiah, I do recognise him as part of the messiah and a part of myself!
And hell is a place within our subconscious!

I don't see you as anything or anyone because I don't understand what you are saying.
Must admit ..your title/description/religion is scary and off-putting ! :yes:
It's a shame since we are close neighbours.

 

[David69]

I don't see you as anything or anyone because I don't understand what you are saying.
Must admit ..your title/description/religion is scary and off-putting ! :yes:
It's a shame since we are close neighbours.

What title, angel of the north? scary and offputting!
your reaction is normal lol, I am normally missunderstood... tis a shame.

 

[NickTateBate]

A violated conscience is the preview of hell. It is not literally burning someone like a barbecue. When the veil is lifted, what is very painful to those who will get there (say for example me) is the constant reminder of what I've lost because of evil choices in this life. The conscience therefore is the only enemy we have that is actually working on our side.

There are things we cannot nullify by our unbelief (hell, life after death, resurrection). They will apply whether we believe in them or not...

 

[Beta]

What title, angel of the north? scary and offputting!
your reaction is normal lol, I am normally missunderstood... tis a shame.

Not your title really but your religion.
Why are you calling yourself lucifarian unless you want to deliberately cause confusion and misunderstanding and blame others for it ???
If you want to be known as a 'lightbringer' why not call yourself such ?

 

[David69]

Not your title really but your religion.
Why are you calling yourself lucifarian unless you want to deliberately cause confusion and misunderstanding and blame others for it ???
If you want to be known as a 'lightbringer' why not call yourself such ?

The messiah bringith the light
Lucifer is a name, luciferianism imo is not a religion.
Lucifer is an invention of christianity, I think! IMHO what christians see as the devil I can only sum up as "communication" suposedly stolen from God but this communication is given by God to the real messiah. The communication is the truth and of God the father. its a matter of turning things upside down. 666=999 each 9 is 333= communication! you wont read this stuff in the bible or anywhere else because it is reveiled to me by the father because by his will is my birthright. People see me as the devil or false messiah but I am David and am no devil, the devil is just a part of the human subconscious pushed there by the true evil manipulators. but just my opinion :yes: I will not be manipulated by any religion!:no: But I am David the angel lol, yeah complicated stuff eh!
The Messiah will never say beleive, beleive, beleive because that would be manipulation wouldnt it?