Let's talk about Hell

[rusra02]

I believe I'm in the right spot. I want to talk to Christians about Hell. That is all I wish to talk to you about, though I will not reject to your witnessing at all, besides, that is what I'm doing. Witnessing for the right to evolve. So fire away. But please, I would appreciate it if you could keep this debate to Hell only. Thank you.

It's a question really, one I must ask by making a statement first. Well, a story really. But just to get the idea, Why Hell?

Let's go to Hell for a minute.

I'm Ed and I'm dead; a human on earth who failed to get salvation from Jesus Christ. In the Christian faith one either goes to Heaven or goes to Hell sometime after death. In this case, Ed is going to Hell.

It's Ed's time and God does not see Ed in his book, so Peter throws him into the lake of fire, something like that. I think that is actually pretty much it. Oh except one thing, Ed's there for eternity.

Sot it's hot, actually, Ed is on fire. He has landed on hot rocks and they are scraping his knees and his palms and burning at the same time. In fact his is totally on fire. He is in Hell for sure and he is on literal fire. And it hurts; it is searing pain of boils and burned skin. But he sees that he is not dieing. He is as alive as he was when he was thrown in 40 minutes ago. And he wonders when they will get him, but knows they are never going to come, but he can’t believe it and screams for help.

It's been 124 years. Ed still burns, his pain has never let up for 124 years. His pleas for help still fill the hot flames and brush the flames back into his eyes that burn constantly. He is engulfed in fire. It has now been 84,213 years. Ed screams have grown weird and finally at 700 million years to the day Ed stops screaming for one split second and realizes he is just beginning.

It has now been 41 zillion years times a 1000 zillion years that Ed has burned in Hell. He has another moment and he realizes he may as well have been there for 10 minutes, because this time will repeat again at another 41 zillion times a 1000 zillion years and that will still be just the beginning. And then the beginning starts again....

Get it?
I gotta ask. How’d this idea ever get this far?

The Bible does not teach that the wicked will be tormented forever in hellfire. That false teaching comes from pagan religions. As to the penalty for sin, the Bible says "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23) God told Adam he would positively die, not be tormented forever. The figurative language of Revelation speaks of a lake of fire, but explains that "This means the second death, the lake of fire. Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.(Revelation 20:14,15) Verse 14 also says "And death and Ha′des (or hell) were hurled into the lake of fire." Adamic death and mankind's common grave or Ha'des will be destroyed forever in God's due time, as if hurled into a symbolic lake of fire. The Bible says both the righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected from Ha'des (Acts 24:15)
Any who God considers unworthy of life will be destroyed forever in the second death, a death from which there is no resurrection.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I have a question. If the only way to avoid going to Hell is through belief in Jesus as Christ, as the Christians believe. What happens to the folks scattered across the Earth that have no knowledge of Christ or of Christianity? Is their fate sealed as well just because of ignorance? If so that seems very unfair of God!

Acts [2vs27,31] shows Jesus did Not avoid hell.
Jesus was in hell until God resurrected him.
What did Jesus believe he would be doing while in hell is shown at John [11vs11-14] Jesus believed while buried in hell he would be in a deep sleep-like state because Jesus likened death to deep unconscious sleep.
[Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Ecc 9v5; Dan 12vs2,13]

The Biblical hell is the common grave of mankind.

Romans [6v7] explains the one who is dead is freed or acquitted from sins.
Sins connected to our imperfection.
Since death is the price tag paid for sins, then all those asleep in the grave [with the exception of Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6] will be resurrected.-
[Acts 24v15]. 'Death' stamps the price tag of sin as: 'Paid In Full'.
This does not mean innocent but as a governor can pardon a person so that the charges no longer stick. So Jesus ransom is applied to 'many' [Matt 20v28] which includes all sorts of peoples since Abel.

Jesus held out a heavenly hope for his apostles and other Christian followers [Rev 5vs9,10], the rest will be part of the promise to Abraham that Jesus will fulfill during his 1000-year rule over earth that all families of the earth will be blessed and all nations of the earth will be blessed. Blessed with the prospect of everlasting life on a peaceful earth under God's kingdom.
[Gen. 12v3; 22vs17,18; Rev 22v2]

 

[Danmac]

Lets look at hell in a way that we can relate to it. Hell is not just about a place. Hell is about being separated from the only life source. That life source being God. So hell is the complete absence of God.

Jesus made this statement.......

John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

This means that as long as God is trying to reconcile the world unto himself thru Jesus Christ, He is present in the world in which we live in different degrees. His presence is experienced in different degrees for a couple of reasons.

1) Light (God)and dark satan) claim territories thru invitation.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2) Human beings are vessels that are filled with either light or dark by granting permission to spiritual forces thru temptation, obedience, disobedience, violated conscience, etc.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!


Therefore, every human being is already experiencing hell in different degrees. We know this because hell is as much about mental torment as heat. Some people become so overwhelmed by this mental torment that results from an unbearable degree of separation, that they take their own life. Not knowing that in death they will be totally separated, whereas in life they were only partially separated.

 

[Beta]

Danmac ,
I believe your post could be very helpful to people - to understand the spiritual side of heaven and hell. We already experience it IN THIS LIFE when God / Jesus are either present or absent in our life.
Mankind is at a stage when both are more rejected than accepted thus going through a spiritual darkness in which evil can flourish. This is quite evident in all the grief and suffering man is subjected to. In our ignorance and disobedience we give GOD our CREATOR all the blame for not doing something about it when in truth he has already done all he can for us. He sacrificed his own beloved Son so we could be redeemed from darkness and ignorance and come into his light of a new understanding of life.
This step takes man's agreement and participation in what God prescribes and requires almost akin to a prescription from a Doctor for medication WE MUST TAKE (or surgery) in order to get well again to avoid certain death.
It's something to think about - but not too long !

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There was no spiritual side of hell while Jesus was in hell -Acts 2vs27,31

Because Jesus knew death would be like a deep sleep - John 11vs11-14
Jesus knew he would be in a deep sleep-like state not a spiritual state while in hell.

 

[Danmac]

There was no spiritual side of hell while Jesus was in hell -Acts 2vs27,31

Because Jesus knew death would be like a deep sleep - John 11vs11-14
Jesus knew he would be in a deep sleep-like state not a spiritual state while in hell.

So what was that cup that He wanted taken away?

 

[Beta]

There was no spiritual side of hell while Jesus was in hell -Acts 2vs27,31

Because Jesus knew death would be like a deep sleep - John 11vs11-14
Jesus knew he would be in a deep sleep-like state not a spiritual state while in hell.

I don't think I said there was a spiritual state in hell. There is however a spiritual side to human thinking which can either be right or wrong, good or evil, true or false.
It is this human inability to differentiate between these two states that cause all human problems. Man THINKS he knows the difference because of his acquired knowledge and human wisdom as if it could be learned . But Truth is REVEALED from GOD to his obedient servants . Always has been so and always will be so.
Man has free choice to accept the way God does things or man takes the consequences. God does not mind 'reasoning' with people Isah.1v18,19. but he will not argue or apply force to gain their love.

 

[Noaidi]

Lets look at hell in a way that we can relate to it. Hell is not just about a place. Hell is about being separated from the only life source. That life source being God. So hell is the complete absence of God.

That doesn't sound too bad, actually! Given the jealous, petty and homicidal nature of the christian god, spending an eternity having nothing to do with him suits me fine.

Honestly, do you really want to be with a god that at one point killed virtually every living thing in a flood (although to his credit, he was a bit sorry afterwards...), or who has determined that every human carries sin because someone ate one of their five-a-day?

 

[Danmac]

That doesn't sound too bad, actually! Given the jealous, petty and homicidal nature of the christian god, spending an eternity having nothing to do with him suits me fine.

Honestly, do you really want to be with a god that at one point killed virtually every living thing in a flood (although to his credit, he was a bit sorry afterwards...), or who has determined that every human carries sin because someone ate one of their five-a-day?

I guess some of your family and friends will have to blot you out of their memory for eternity, since you wont be with them in heaven.

 

[Noaidi]

I guess some of your family and friends will have to blot you out of their memory for eternity, since you wont be with them in heaven.

You're right, of course. After I (and they) die, I won't be with them in heaven or hell or nirvana or valhalla...
In fact, we'll all be gently decomposing back into the Earth. And I wouldn't have it any other way. :yes:

 

[Danmac]

You're right, of course. After I (and they) die, I won't be with them in heaven or hell or nirvana or valhalla...
In fact, we'll all be gently decomposing back into the Earth. And I wouldn't have it any other way. :yes:

Evidence for this?

 

[RomCat]

The souls in Hell are beyond all hope.
They are deprived of the vision of God
and suffer dreadful torments for all eternity.
It is not against God's mercy to punish souls
in Hell for eternity. God's justice demands
that He thus punish those who deliberately
turn themselves from God, their last end.

 

[Beta]

Even though it has been proven from scripture time and time again that there is no eternal torment for man in hell some people just won't have it any other way. They seem to get some personal satisfaction from such a horrendous concept.

 

[Noaidi]

Evidence for this?

Are you asking me for evidence of decomposition here??!!

 

[DeitySlayer]

Evidence for this?

We have evidence for decomposition. The evidence for Heaven is roughly similar to the evidence for a Flying Spaghetti Monster. I.e. near zero.

 

[Noaidi]

Even though it has been proven from scripture time and time again that there is no eternal torment for man in hell some people just won't have it any other way. They seem to get some personal satisfaction from such a horrendous concept.

Yes, and it works wonders for training the minds of children.

 

[Beta]

Yes, and it works wonders for training the minds of children.

Not only children but adults too can be scared stiff and whats more I believe the eternal torment concept serves to actually make people hate God instead of loving him.
So why does religion teach such false doctrine ? One would think that christians would do anything to portray God in a fair and just way but traditional christianity is a false church and their hidden agenda is to keep people from God or at best confuse them to cause disagreement and dislike of each others denominations. :yes:

 

[Muffled]

Imagination. The real story is there to read if you would prefer it to the fairy tale.

 

[Muffled]

Not only children but adults too can be scared stiff and whats more I believe the eternal torment concept serves to actually make people hate God instead of loving him.
So why does religion teach such false doctrine ? One would think that christians would do anything to portray God in a fair and just way but traditional christianity is a false church and their hidden agenda is to keep people from God or at best confuse them to cause disagreement and dislike of each others denominations. :yes:

That is the point excactly. If you are frightened of something then you should be amenable to being saved from it.

I find it difficult to have sympathy for someone that hates God because he loves his sin. If you don't like the punishment for sin, don't sin. I suppose you hate the police as well for putting criminals in jail.

I see that you don't feel obligated to be factual.

People teach what they believe whether it is true or not and certainly you have expressed views that are not true, so why do you do it?

 

[Noaidi]

That is the point excactly. If you are frightened of something then you should be amenable to being saved from it.

But saving yourself in this situation means buying into the system that promotes the fear in the first place!
The alternative, of course, is to save yourself by thinking for yourself, and realising that a book of Bronze Age mythology isn't the only basis for living a good life.