Let's talk about Hell

[Happy1]

Will those sent to Hell spend eternity there? yeppers... so the bible says.
How can mere mortals flesh and blood last for eternity burning....only the soul stands alone. The from dust to dust theory.
My thoughts are why do those who do not belive in hell and punishment give so much thought to it. Forgiveness and belief is very easy... why not play it safe just in case.

 

[MissAlice]

I can't help but recall how this thread reminds me of a particular song in regards to most of humanity's eternal fate.


YouTube - The Fate Awaiting Thee.mp4

[youtube]dehxX-wWPxM[/youtube]

 

[Amill]

When people complain about hell, I wonder what they expect it to be like, or what they want it to be like and for how long? People don't seem to be bothered if a killer gets life in prison which is essentially "forever" in this life.

Yea but we don't exactly inflict nonstop painful torture on people we put in jail, because THERE WOULD BE NO POINT. They are in jail for life because outcast is a consequence that one takes when they **** off or lose the trust of a social group. God has no need to send people to hell, there's no reason he simply can't let them fade away. He would have to WANT to cause pain on people, there's no other purpose for hell other than God's desire to inflict pain on people he thinks deserves it. It in no way compares to prison time. And not even all of us awful humans think it's right to punish people for the things they believe.

I also found the idea of hell extremely suspicious, especially the idea that people with the wrong beliefs deserve to go there. And why would god tell us of hell anyways? He didn't actually need to, and at least people would have acted how they honestly wanted to act and then paid the price. Hell just sounds like a man-made idea to scare people.

 

[Beta]

Does "unrepentent sinners" include a) those who have never heard the Christian message, or b) those who have heard the Christian message, but were raised in a different religion/culture, and thus less likely to accept that message than someone born in a Christian household?

That is a very good question friend !
As I understand it all are sinners to begin with and stay sinners UNTIL we hear and accept GOD's TRUTH - for the TRUTH will set us free Joh.8v32.
But it does get a bit more complicated because just knowing the truth is not enough we also have to practice it Jas.1v22-25.
Anyone who does not know it (for whatever reason) will have another opportunity in a resurrection to human life at a later time. These are NOT unrepentant sinners because they sin in ignorance and are not rejecting the truth never having heard it Rev.20v5 ?

 

[no-body]

Either burn up quickly or spend eternity suffering, either is unfair anyway you look at it. A permanent punishment for a temporary life is disgusting and does not denote a higher being.

My image of a truly just hell would be a place where souls have to relive each and everyone of their mistakes from the point of view of their victims until they can reach paradise. Most likely tough I believe there is no real afterlife, it is simply the letting go of the ego, cosmic justice is a purely human invention.

Anyways If the God of the bible is real, he is a *******. Ted Bundy can get into heaven but Gandhi is going to burn for all eternity just because he didn't mouth John 3:16 before he died.

 

[Eliot Wild]

My thoughts are why do those who do not belive in hell and punishment give so much thought to it. Forgiveness and belief is very easy... why not play it safe just in case.

Some people are just intrigued by theological questions. Others believe it is necessary to thoroughly consider all angles of a subject before pronouncing personal judgments and conclusions about them. Me, I was taught a belief system as a child that began to sound more and more absurd as I matured and became more educated. And I felt it to be a duty to myself to consider these matters. Personally, I felt if there was/is a God, He/She would want me to give these matters my utmost consideration in an effort to reach a reasonable conclusion.

As to playing it safe . . . Won't God, being omniscient, realize we are just "playing it safe", rather than being sincere?

Also, I mean no offense in this, but I personally would reject any theology that attempts to frighten me into accepting it. In other words, I personally couldn't maintain my own integrity--my own desire to know and understand TRUTH--if I accepted something as real only because I was trying to avoid some possibly horrible outcome for rejecting it. And again, I don't think God, if He/She really exists, wants us making decisions out of fear. That just doesn't seem to fit with God's perfectly Just nature. Even lawyers know that one can't enter into a contract out of duress.

 

[ChristineES]

Why does everyone assume that Hell is some furnace with roasting people? Most of us don't believe that at all.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I've always been partial to the saying that hell is O.K. just as long as it's over the first time.

 

[Beta]

Some people are just intrigued by theological questions. Others believe it is necessary to thoroughly consider all angles of a subject before pronouncing personal judgments and conclusions about them. Me, I was taught a belief system as a child that began to sound more and more absurd as I matured and became more educated. And I felt it to be a duty to myself to consider these matters. Personally, I felt if there was/is a God, He/She would want me to give these matters my utmost consideration in an effort to reach a reasonable conclusion.

As to playing it safe . . . Won't God, being omniscient, realize we are just "playing it safe", rather than being sincere?

Also, I mean no offense in this, but I personally would reject any theology that attempts to frighten me into accepting it. In other words, I personally couldn't maintain my own integrity--my own desire to know and understand TRUTH--if I accepted something as real only because I was trying to avoid some possibly horrible outcome for rejecting it. And again, I don't think God, if He/She really exists, wants us making decisions out of fear. That just doesn't seem to fit with God's perfectly Just nature. Even lawyers know that one can't enter into a contract out of duress.

This concept of eternal suffering in hell has been around for centuries and goes along with the erronious teaching of an immortal soul. Both these concepts are false but were taught to ignorant people who had no opportunity or mental ability to read scripture for themselves. This fear of an ever burning hell brought masses of converts into their churches giving them power and wealth even to this day.
When a concept or teaching is new it has enormous influence on people especially when based on fear and only diminishes as we gain more knowledge in such matters so that today we can read scripture for ourselves and detect the gross errors perpetrated in dark times.
As God's day dawns more light will shine and knowledge increased for those who believe and obey. Dan.12v4.

 

[logician]

A place of eternal torment is not well supported even biblically, it was invented more by the church to keep believers in line.

 

[dogsgod]

Hell sounds like wishful thinking.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

You might find this of interest. The later quotes are from the Baha'i scriptures:

"Bahá'u'lláh and &'Abdu'l-Bahá regard the descriptions of Heaven and Hell given in some of the older religious writings as symbolic, like the Biblical story of the Creation, and not as literally true. According to Them, Heaven is the state of perfection, and Hell that of imperfection; Heaven is harmony with God's will and with our fellows, and Hell is the want of such harmony; Heaven is the condition of spiritual life, and Hell that of spiritual death. A man may be either in Heaven or in Hell while still in the body. The joys of Heaven are spiritual joys; and the pains of Hell consist in the deprivation of these joys."
―Baha'u'llah and the New Era pp. 190-1


"When they [men] are delivered through the light of faith from the darkness of these vices, and become illuminated with the radiance of the sun of reality, and ennobled with all the virtues, they esteem this the greatest reward, and they know it to be the true paradise. In the same way they consider that the spiritual punishment ... is to be subjected to the world of nature, to be veiled from God, to be brutal and ignorant, to fall into carnal lusts, to be absorbed in animal frailties, to be characterized with dark qualities ... these are the greatest punishments and tortures....

"...The rewards of the other world are the perfections and the peace obtained in the spiritual worlds after leaving this world ... the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity. In the same way the punishments of the other world ... consist in being deprived of the special divine blessings and the absolute bounties, and falling into the lowest degrees of existence. He who is deprived of these divine favours, although he continues after death, is considered as dead by the people of truth.

"The wealth of the other world is nearness to God. Consequently it is certain that those who are near the Divine Court are allowed to intercede, and this intercession is approved by God....

"It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have the power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God.... Therefore in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness, and receive light through entreaties and supplications.

"Both before and after putting off this material form, there is progress in perfection, but not in state.... There is no other being higher than a perfect man. But man when he has reached this state can still make progress in perfections but not in state, because there is no state higher than that of a perfect man to which he can transfer himself. He only progresses in the state of humanity, for the human perfections are infinite. Thus however learned a man may be, we can imagine one more learned.

"Hence, as the perfections of humanity are endless, man can also make progress in perfections after leaving this world."
―Some Answered Questions, pp. 260-274 passim.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[logician]

Hell sounds like wishful thinking.

True, there really is no "justice" in this world, some people hope "wrongdoers" will get justice in the supposed hereafter.:seesaw:

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A place of eternal torment is not well supported even biblically, it was invented more by the church to keep believers in line.

...they will be cast into darkness where there will be gnawing and gnashing of teeth...
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torment, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire;there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire.
Where the worm dieth not, and and the fire is not quenched.

Seems Biblically supported to me. And there are over 100 more references available.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

IOnly sinful spirits shall be eternally punished because they can not die. .

Those that can not die are immortal. Is Satan immortal? No, because according to Hebrews 2v14 B Satan will be destroyed by Jesus. Genesis 3v15 Jesus proves to be the 'seed' that will deal Satan [serpent] a fatal death bruise to his head.

According to 2nd Thessalonians 1v9 isn't punishment everlasting destruction?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

True, there really is no "justice" in this world, some people hope "wrongdoers" will get justice in the supposed hereafter.

But isn't 'justice' supposed to be for the upright or righteous?_______

According to Proverbs 21v18 the wicked will be a ransom for the righteous,
and the transgressor for the upright.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hell sounds like wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking or no thinking? Since Jesus was in hell until God resurrected him [Acts 2 vs27,31] then what would Jesus think he would be doing while in hell?
Since Jesus believed the dead are in a deep sleep-like state, then Jesus would have believed the Bible hell is the grave; the common grave for mankind.
Jesus likened 'death to sleep' at John 11 vs11-14.
Isn't that in harmony with Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Daniel 12v2 and Ecclesiastes 9v5?

 

[jmvizanko]

My thoughts are why do those who do not belive in hell and punishment give so much thought to it. Forgiveness and belief is very easy... why not play it safe just in case.

We give it so much thought because we cannot fathom how anybody could stand by a belief that entails something as illogical as the existence of hell, let alone that it is just. Hell personally represents the biggest reason why I can safely say I will never be a Christian or a Muslim.

Forgiveness and belief is very easy... why not play it safe just in case.

Belief is not easy. We cannot choose what appears to us to be true or not. And if a belief requires faith, then what reasons are there for putting your faith into it, instead of into any other belief that requires faith? (of which there are many) How do you know you are "playing it safe" by believing in your god? What if the Muslims are right and both you and me are going to Muslim hell?

 

[Danny Heim]

I am traveling out of town and won't be back until next week. I will read and answer you wonderful replies when i get back. danny

 

[JustWondering2]

I have a question. If the only way to avoid going to Hell is through belief in Jesus as Christ, as the Christians believe. What happens to the folks scattered across the Earth that have no knowledge of Christ or of Christianity? Is their fate sealed as well just because of ignorance? If so that seems very unfair of God!

Pardon me if this question has already been answered!

JW2