Life From Dirt?

[Heyo]

"There are no forces" - OK Friend .. If you say so, it must be true even though every student of Physics and Chemistry is taught of the 4 main forces that govern the Universe.

then you blurt something about a mathematical theory -- when "There is no Math" don't you know ? because if I said so, it must be true right?

Then you talk about "attractors" .. but how can there be attractors without forces ??

"Just a logical result of chaotic function" - ?? ... with no forces there is no logical result of anything in the chaotic function because there is no chaotic function.

That glaring error aside -- the whole point of pointing out the anomalies in the chaotic function is because these anomalies are NOT the logical result of Chaotic function.

"You do know" - that there are at least 4 or 5 major fails in your post .. without mentioning you did not define the term you were supposed to define -- nor address the "I AM" portion of the Lecture Deer .. meet headlight !!

A terrible fail friend .. go back .. read again and try again ... Oh .. and I actually read Gleick's book some 40 years ago when it came out .. but, that was long prior taking Quantum Chemistry during the 4th year of my degree .. doing those funky wave equations .. Hisenburg uncertainty principle .. funky math skills required.

Isn't it remarkable how even a student of quantum chemistry can fail hard at reading comprehension, spelling (of important (to the subject) names) and be a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The problem with your claim …. is that you assume that only one way your way, is all that fits.

Actually, this is your claim.

You don’t even know what I believe, really. And yet you automatically assume I’m wrong. Such dogmatic assumptions usually produce erroneous conclusions.

 

[shunyadragon]

Actually, this is your claim.

You don’t even know what I believe, really. And yet you automatically assume I’m wrong. Such dogmatic assumptions usually produce erroneous conclusions.

Actually, I DO NOT claim there is only one way, I am open to change as in science if one presents objective verifiable evidence that warrants change. As far as religion goes all subjective human beliefs are subjected to skeptical questioning including my own,

It is abundantly clear you believe in a fundamentality Christianity and reject the scientific explanation for the nature of our physical existence. If this is not correct enlighten me. Are you a 'Witness for Jehovah' as you describe believing on JW?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Let us get one thing clear .. prior to your googled pretense of having some skill in math.. Any monkey can post a googled definition or paper .. pretending to have a clue. and 2) my math skills related to chaos theory are far better than yours. "Order emerges from the chaos naturally" -- please prove this mathematically

*Mod edit*

Look at your reaction here to my post. You discussed none of its content, and you took it personally and got angry despite it not being about you. You began with that aggressive, dismissive comment above. You hoped to offend me in retaliation because for whatever your reason, you were offended by my words. You'll have to have that conversation with somebody else.

I will continue to comment on your words when it appeals to me to do so, but you needn't respond to those comments. They really aren't written for you, and you have yet to offer anything of value in response to any of them. Hopefully, somebody learned something about order arising spontaneously, but I know it wasn't you, and it never will be for as long as you maintain that disposition.

 

[Sargonski]

*Mod edit*

Isn't it remarkable how even a student of quantum chemistry can fail hard at reading comprehension, spelling (of important (to the subject) names) and be a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect?

I thought we agreed that typo trolling is not an argument for anything other than .. the vast emptyness and void of rational thought ? Did you seriously think scoring100% in the spelling BEE showed aptitude or lack therof in Science ? Not that you score 100% yourself .. but how is this double doo doo clearly oblivious to you ?

 

[Heyo]

I thought we agreed that typo trolling is not an argument for anything other than .. the vast emptyness and void of rational thought ? Did you seriously think scoring100% in the spelling BEE showed aptitude or lack therof in Science ? Not that you score 100% yourself .. but how is this double doo doo clearly oblivious to you ?

I'm usually not such a spelling nazi but someone who claims to have studied anything quantum and misspells Heisenberg is deeply suspicious. If your claims were correct, you must have read, said and written that name hundreds of times. Getting it wrong is not like an accidentally missed apostrophe, it indicates unfamiliarity.
Speaking of familiarity, are you familiar with Julia sets?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm usually not such a spelling nazi but someone who claims to have studied anything quantum and misspells Heisenberg is deeply suspicious. If your claims were correct, you must have read, said and written that name hundreds of times. Getting it wrong is not like an accidentally missed apostrophe, it indicates unfamiliarity.
Speaking of familiarity, are you familiar with Julia sets?

Any relation to Julia Child?

 

[jes-us]

Maybe life sprang from dirt 3.5 billion years ago though abiogenesis but I’m beginning to seriously doubt it. The God theory is sounding more and more plausible.

God had two empty boxes and God then threw in each box a handful of different coloured smarties , ''let there be life'' God shouted towards the smarties , but the smarties disobeyed and stayed flat on the bottom of the box in no specific order of colour .

God then tipped both boxes of smarties back into Gods hands before he placed each smarty individually in each box , creating life .

 

[Sargonski]

I'm usually not such a spelling nazi but someone who claims to have studied anything quantum and misspells Heisenberg is deeply suspicious. If your claims were correct, you must have read, said and written that name hundreds of times. Getting it wrong is not like an accidentally missed apostrophe, it indicates unfamiliarity.
Speaking of familiarity, are you familiar with Julia sets?

"Spelling Nazi" -- Holy Carp Friend .. Thought we agreed that conflating a spelling Bee with aptitude in nuclear physics was as dumb as can be - in addition to being Ad Hom Fallacy ? Inability to spell does not make a claim false .. friend .. and was you who started the pud measurment contest --- professing some skill in math .. but clearly unable to deliver the goods .. nor converse in a manner recognizable to the Scientists in the room..

***STAFF EDIT*** this is second time explained to you now .. ***STAFF EDIT*** thinking spelling equates to skills in other things .. perhaps not as D&D but that is silly nonsense as well .. despite on the surface seeming sound to those not paying much attention.

Now... if you are done with the name calling and Ad Hom fallacy .. confusing these for an argument of some kind... did you have something you wished to contribute to the topic -- now that we have sorted out the "Spelling Nazi" issue -- and figured out that a spelling error does not make a claim false .. nor make the person making the error anywhere near as uneducated as the one crying out "typo" - in an internet chat space.

did you wish to say anything about life from dirt -- and Gods influence ... or your completely ridiculous comments about Chaos Theory -- something about Nature .. and no forces .. strange postulations.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I didn’t know this about you. (I thought you were an atheist.)

Glad to hear it. Er, read it, lol.

You still don't know what an atheist is after all of these years?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I’m sure you want to believe that, no doubt quite a few are.

I want to believe in as many true things as possible while not believing in as many false things as possible. That's all I want.

But everyone? No.

Yes, all humans. Human beings are prone to a lot of of different types of cognitive and psychological errors. We also tend to see patterns where none actually exist. I've studied psychology for many years and I'm all too aware of such things.

You’ve read posts from Sgt.Pepper here on RF. (Or at least, I thought you did, in another thread.)
She presents too many details in her travels, for her to have been “mistaken”!

There are others on here who may seem irrational, granted…. But not everyone; certainly not Sgt.Pepper.

I have. And I disagree as to what conclusions can be drawn from such things.

You’ll probably just ignore it. But that’s what narrow minded people do…. to protect their worldview.

Ah, I see. I'm the narrow-minded one for recognizing that people are prone to error and mistakes in thinking. Can you elaborate on that?

As for worshippers of Jehovah, like me, we try to take it all in. To use discernment & see where and how it all fits.

Within the narrow framework of a specific Bible-based view, that is.

Take care.

You too.

 

[shunyadragon]

"Spelling Nazi" -- Holy Carp Friend .. Thought we agreed that conflating a spelling Bee with aptitude in nuclear physics was as dumb as can be - in addition to being Ad Hom Fallacy ? Inability to spell does not make a claim false .. friend .. and was you who started the pud measurment contest --- professing some skill in math .. but clearly unable to deliver the goods .. nor converse in a manner recognizable to the Scientists in the room..

***STAFF EDIT*** this is second time explained to you now .. ***STAFF EDIT*** thinking spelling equates to skills in other things .. perhaps not as D&D but that is silly nonsense as well .. despite on the surface seeming sound to those not paying much attention.

Now... if you are done with the name calling and Ad Hom fallacy .. confusing these for an argument of some kind... did you have something you wished to contribute to the topic -- now that we have sorted out the "Spelling Nazi" issue -- and figured out that a spelling error does not make a claim false .. nor make the person making the error anywhere near as uneducated as the one crying out "typo" - in an internet chat space.

did you wish to say anything about life from dirt -- and Gods influence ... or your completely ridiculous comments about Chaos Theory -- something about Nature .. and no forces .. strange postulations.

Time for you to take some serious meds.

 

[SkepticThinker]

"Spelling Nazi" -- Holy Carp Friend .. Thought we agreed that conflating a spelling Bee with aptitude in nuclear physics was as dumb as can be - in addition to being Ad Hom Fallacy ? Inability to spell does not make a claim false .. friend .. and was you who started the pud measurment contest --- professing some skill in math .. but clearly unable to deliver the goods .. nor converse in a manner recognizable to the Scientists in the room..

***STAFF EDIT*** this is second time explained to you now .. ***STAFF EDIT*** thinking spelling equates to skills in other things .. perhaps not as D&D but that is silly nonsense as well .. despite on the surface seeming sound to those not paying much attention.

Now... if you are done with the name calling and Ad Hom fallacy .. confusing these for an argument of some kind... did you have something you wished to contribute to the topic -- now that we have sorted out the "Spelling Nazi" issue -- and figured out that a spelling error does not make a claim false .. nor make the person making the error anywhere near as uneducated as the one crying out "typo" - in an internet chat space.

did you wish to say anything about life from dirt -- and Gods influence ... or your completely ridiculous comments about Chaos Theory -- something about Nature .. and no forces .. strange postulations.

Sounds like a chill pill may be in order.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It's the epitome of irony to get such a head-in-sand one-liner in reply.

I’m the one with the “head-in-sand”?
That’s rich!

Now, I don’t accept everyone’s claim of metaphysical experiences.

But I do look at the rational-thinking people here who have shared their experiences & conversations with spirit entities on RF, and I accept them. (I understand where these entities fit in, and I’m aware of their deceitful motives.)

You, however, categorize all such experiences as hogwash, and ignore them.

So, my cousin, who’s the one with their head in the sand?


And for the record, I recognize why you won’t accept any supernatural account (out of the documented thousands) to be genuine…. You need all of them to be fake, to support your naturalistic worldview.
I, on the other hand, only need 1 to be real, to support mine.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’m the one with the “head-in-sand”?
That’s rich!

Now, I don’t accept everyone’s claim of metaphysical experiences.

But I do look at the rational-thinking people here who have shared their experiences & conversations with spirit entities on RF, and I accept them. (I understand where these entities fit in, and I’m aware of their deceitful motives.)

You, however, categorize all such experiences as hogwash, and ignore them.

So, my cousin, who’s the one with their head in the sand?


And for the record, I recognize why you won’t accept any supernatural account (out of the documented thousands) to be genuine…. You need all of them to be fake, to support your naturalistic worldview.
I, on the other hand, only need 1 to be real, to support mine.

Are you even thinking? How do you document a supernatural event to be genuine?

 

[jes-us]

Maybe life sprang from dirt 3.5 billion years ago though abiogenesis but I’m beginning to seriously doubt it. The God theory is sounding more and more plausible.

Show me where dirt can form complex forms and component positioning over and over again and I'm all ears .

 

[Heyo]

And for the record, I recognize why you won’t accept any supernatural account (out of the documented thousands) to be genuine…. You need all of them to be fake, to support your naturalistic worldview.
I, on the other hand, only need 1 to be real, to support mine.

"I want to believe as many true thing and and as few false things as possible." - Matt Dillahunty

Even if I dismiss all supernatural claims without regard, I come closer to that goal than believing even one supernatural claim. For every supernatural claim that hasn't thoroughly debunked, there are thousands that have. Frauds, urban legends, misperceptions, hallucinations and natural phenomena that have been attributed to the supernatural are all magnitudes more likely than a "genuine supernatural event".
It is at a level that even the demand to contemplate, let alone investigate, a supernatural story equates to sealioning. "The last 999 times I claimed a supernatural event happened I was wrong - but this time it's real, look at the evidence." Nope, I won't. I'll wait until people with more patience and resources have investigated and written a paper in a respected journal before I even look.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What would you propose the critical thinker who has no such experiences himself do with that information.

Adjust their viewpoint, after assessing the source is reliable.
What about the critical thinker who has experienced contact with intelligent invisible entities? Does he cease being a critical thinker?

I’d say he becomes an even better critical thinker.

Here's what we know. A kind, intelligent, thoughtful person with a very negative and traumatic religious past reports the kinds of experiences she does. I don't know what she actually believes, but she's referred to experiencing a spirit world.

Yes, I agree to all those adjectives describing her.

What should any of us who have no such experiences do differently with that knowledge?

You’ve just described her as intelligent & thoughtful.
So believe her when she says she’s having these contacts.

Could these contacts possibly be misleading her? Certainly, I believe they are.
But that’s not the question here… we’re discussing whether or not she’s in contact with intelligent spirits.

I have no doubt that she is sincere, but I'm not so sure about correct,…

Is every experience she relates to us, a brief encounter? No.
If they were all brief, you might have a case.
She has posted her conversations with these entities! And more.

I’ve learned one thing from her: with some of them pretending to be “dead humans “, these entities have really misled her. That’s their entire goal.
But this is a subject for another thread….

…and even if I stipulate to her being correct and these spirits existing, then what?

Then realize that natural methodologies might not be all there is!

Try to contact these spirits?

No way! Just be aware of their existence, and influence.

Accept the possibility of a god. I already do.

Well, I never knew this! To hear you talk, I thought you wouldn’t have.

Glad to know it!

@SkepticThinker , this answers your question too, that Sgt.Pepper has engaged in-depth with these beings, not just brief observations.

So saying she’s “mistaken” doesn’t fit with her detailed descriptions.

Just be willing to open your mind, I think her descriptions of their existence, is incontrovertible.

You could say Winston Churchill, claiming to see Abe Lincoln, was mistaken… his experience was short lived. And it apparently didn’t scare him. (Or so he said.) A “pattern” he wanted to see? Possibly.

But this can’t be said for Queen Wilhelmina of The Netherlands…. She didn’t want to see that apparition! It scared her, and she fainted!

Goodnight to you both.

 

[flowerpower]

Maybe life sprang from dirt 3.5 billion years ago though abiogenesis but I’m beginning to seriously doubt it. The God theory is sounding more and more plausible.

I think you need to learn what evolution actually is.

It has nothing to do with "springing from dirt".

 

[Hockeycowboy]

"I want to believe as many true thing and and as few false things as possible." - Matt Dillahunty

Even if I dismiss all supernatural claims without regard, I come closer to that goal than believing even one supernatural claim. For every supernatural claim that hasn't thoroughly debunked, there are thousands that have. Frauds, urban legends, misperceptions, hallucinations and natural phenomena that have been attributed to the supernatural are all magnitudes more likely than a "genuine supernatural event".
It is at a level that even the demand to contemplate, let alone investigate, a supernatural story equates to sealioning. "The last 999 times I claimed a supernatural event happened I was wrong - but this time it's real, look at the evidence." Nope, I won't. I'll wait until people with more patience and resources have investigated and written a paper in a respected journal before I even look.

And that’s what these entities want, for the most part. Some mediums that have posted here, say that these spirits won’t reveal themselves every time, that they’re unpredictable….that’s the way these invisible beings act.

And they’re happy with your status quo of “no God”… if they did reveal their existence to you, it might influence you to start searching for Jehovah God; and that’s the last thing they want!

So… a peer-reviewed paper? It ain’t coming.

Good night.