Love, sex, and spirituality

[Trailblazer]

I disagree that there's a contradiction.

I'm a pagan, and I see the merits of sex. Doesn't mean I have a super high libido.

I would not expect people who don't adhere to the New Testament (or other scriptures that say the same things) to see a contradiction, since that's where the contradictions are pointed out. If people have their own conception of spirituality, what they believe about sex being spiritual, or not, would be according to that conception.

According to 'how I interpret' the Bible and the Baha'i Writings, I do not see the merits of sex, except to produce children.
Please note that this is only 'my personal opinion' and does not represent any official position of the Baha'i Faith.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I would not expect people who don't adhere to the New Testament (or other scriptures that say the same things) to see a contradiction, since that's where the contradictions are pointed out. If people have their own conception of spirituality, what they believe about sex being spiritual, or not, would be according to that conception.

According to 'how I interpret' the Bible and the Baha'i Writings, I do not see the merits of sex, except to produce children.
Please note that this is only 'my personal opinion' and does not represent any official position of the Baha'i Faith.

Understandable.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think sex is merely an act of gratification of the flesh. Many people express their love through physical affection, including kissing and hugging. So, too, do people like to spend time with those they love doing something they both enjoy. Sex is one way to have both of these things, and it is often a symbolic affirmation of commitment.

From what I hear from those who care about it, anyway.

I agree that sex with love can be an expression of love, in addition to gratification of the flesh, and I have no problem with that.
How people relate to sex and express themselves sexually is a personal matter.
Of course that means that how I relate to sex and express myself sexually is also a personal matter.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because not everyone holds the same opinions you do.

Well, obviously not. Why would they?

 

[Trailblazer]

Sex and sexual desire developed in our species through eons of evolution. When I have sex and experience the myriad sensations that accompany it, I am living out the legacy of survival of our species.

I am tapping into the creative force of life.

I find a lot of spiritual inspiration in this.

But I understand other folks don't. They have their own ways of tapping into the creative and inspirational forces of life. The diversity of our species is a strength.

When I spend time with my cats, or connect with animals out in nature, I am tapping into the creative force of life.

I find a lot of spiritual inspiration in this but I understand other folks don't.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is a hard question, but how can a relationship be purely spiritual? Its people, and people seem to be only partly spiritual.

Interestingly, the Baha'i Faith teaches that a marriage must be both physical and spiritual. That makes sense since we are physical beings and we live in a physical world. Whether the following excerpt from a longer passage is referring to sexual union I cannot say, although most Baha'is believe it does. But even if it does refer to sex, that does not mean the union is broken if they stop having sex.

“The true marriage of Bahá’ís is this, that husband and wife should be united both physically and spiritually, that they may ever improve the spiritual life of each other, and may enjoy everlasting unity throughout all the worlds of God. This is Bahá’í marriage.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 118

 

[Trailblazer]

There's nothing spiritual about eating potato chips, but many find it extremely important once in a while.

That's true, but nobody is claiming that eating potato chips is spiritual.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see no contradiction as sex is supposed an expression of love and affection, and facilitates bonding between the partners. It's much more than just the physical.

That is true for many people, and probably true for most people who are in love.
What makes me so angry is when people tell me I need sex to feel bonded. I do not need sex to feel bonded to a man, and if that means I have to spend the rest of my life alone so be it. I am not going to force myself to have sex just to have a man, and as I said on the other thread, I will always have God.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

That's true, but nobody is claiming that eating potato chips is spiritual.

I won't go right out and say it. But there are times in the middle of the night, where you just really need chips, and there is a bonding experience, I will say...

 

[Trailblazer]

Sex can be spiritual. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Apparently for you, sex isn't, so you probably don't value sex as much as some people. For Baha'is, sex is restricted to married couples. And I would argue that in most cases, if two married people are having sex, that is spiritual.

Just because two married people are having sex, that does not mean it is spiritual. Married people can also be lustful.

Whether two people are married or not, sex may or may not be spiritual, and that depends upon why that person is having sex. If it is an expression of love it is probably spiritual, but if it is only for physical pleasure I don't consider that spiritual.

 

[Alien826]

In the following, I'll use "marriage" to mean any exclusive committed relationship.

In marriage, what other thing are we not supposed to share with someone other than our partner other than sex?

- A married person can have friend that the other partner does not share.

- A married person can play sports that require more than one person without involving his or her partner.

- A married person can join a club that his partner does not join.

First question. What, other than sex, differentiates a marriage from a friendship?

Second question. Other than breaking religious or cultural customs, what is wrong with sex outside marriage? If nobody is harmed, how does having casual sex differ morally from say playing a round of golf with someone who is not your married partner?

Just trying to break through the knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now, why would the joining of two people in a deeply intimate moment not be spiritual?

If there was no love it would not be spiritual.

 

[Trailblazer]

We are body, mind and soul, and these things are separate and have important aspects to each. Sex is a drive, so it tends to rate pretty highly in the need department.

I would rather say that sex tends to rate pretty highly in the want department. Nobody needs sex.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jehovah's Witnesses is just one of many religions with strict limitations like this.

What's wrong with the limitations as long as it only applies to the members of that religion?

 

[Trailblazer]

I have no problem with how you feel on the topic. Your feelings are yours, and you have every right to them.

However, many people feel differently. As many have already stated, there are aspects of sex(connection with the partner, one and another's bodies, mysteries of life, etc) that many do find deeply spiritual.

Its okay that you don't get that from it. But some really do. Not all come from the same strict Abrahamic background, and are allowed to approach sexuality differently. Perhaps this isn't what's compatible for you, but it is out there, and is legitimate.

I have no problem with how you (or anyone else) feels on the topic. Their feelings are theirs, and they have every right to them. The same applies to their behaviors.

However, some people feel differently. There are aspects of sex that some people like me do not find spiritual. In fact, I find it repulsive to be connected to someone else's body. Please note that I have not always felt this way, quite the contrary. When I was first married and for years after that I was a member of Sexaholics Anonymous. Now the tide has turned.

No, it is not okay with other people that I don't like sex, especially the men on dating sites.
This thread is a backlash to that

Funny thing, I do not see people of a strict Abrahamic background approaching sexuality any differently than anyone else.

My attitude towards sex has nothing to do with my religion, as other Baha'is will testify to. Many years ago I used to get in arguments with other Baha'is on Planet Baha'i when I said that sex is not necessary. It never bothered me that they thought it is necessary, but it bothered them that I thought it wasn't.

Perhaps my attitude isn't acceptable to other people, but it is legitimate for me.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

What's wrong with the limitations as long as it only applies to the members of that religion?

Many things:
1) Children raised into that religion know nothing else. I went to school with a Jehovah's Witness and he confessed how sad he was when the school did holiday things, and how jealous he was about the idea of it. It made me feel very bad for him.

2) Even adults should be inspired to critically think these tenets rather than blindly accept them. If the religions held these tenets as "suggestions" that would be more appropriate, but to hold them as demands and in such a strict worldview, that doesn't allow any wiggle room and adults will often find themselves conflicted with their own morals vs their religion's morals causing a great depression. Having been following their religion's morals all their life, when the conflict arises they don't know what to do - because they don't realize it's okay to think for themselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not true. Sometimes in a relationship, one person takes care of the other without any physical gratification for themself. Intimacy in these cases is all about the other person, and has nothing to do with physical pleasure. The one who is providing, without physical gratification, is experiencing the spiritual dimension of sex.

It is possible that a person might forgo their own physical gratification for the other person at times, but show me a relationship where one of the partners does not experience physical gratification at any time and then we will have something to talk about.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I would rather say that sex tends to rate pretty highly in the want department. Nobody needs sex.

Well, it's not like people die without sex, although guys might try to use the excuse, but it's an instinct and an important one. I do feel that it's often misused and focused on too much, however.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's a diverse topic, and there's a wide range of views and experiences. Discussions like this often tend to end up as debate between folks who feel they are right with their uncompromising view, and those of us who recognise and celebrate diversity.

I already have my own opinion, but I always learn something from discussions like this, since I am not mired in my opinion.
I celebrate diversity, I only wish others would accept me for how I am, but they usually don't since I am in the minority.
People talk about accepting minorities but when it is something they don't agree with often all hell breaks loose.

 

[Trailblazer]

I won't go right out and say it. But there are times in the middle of the night, where you just really need chips, and there is a bonding experience, I will say...

Usually when that happens to me I grab a cat, but we are all different.