Love your neighborhood Jew as yourself

[rrobs]

You really should read a post much more carefully before you shoot off an answer like this.

Am I mistaken about that verse? I'm the first to admit I'm no expert in the Jewish sacred texts. I just did a Google search, which is not necessarily the final word on the Tanakh.

So that verse isn't really there? Please tell. I'd like to learn if I'm wrong. Thanks in advance.

Anyway, my true sentiment should have been obvious in the part of my post you deleted. I'm all for you!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I think Jesus is rolling over in his grave from some of the things that have been done in his name.

I want so much to like your post! I just don't believe He is in the Grave (which, BTW, is what hell is.)
(He was there for 3 days *Psalms 16:10*, but from seeing the fulfillment of his prophecies about the End Days, I believe he was resurrected.)

He is furious! Matthew 7:23. And 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 refers to him as 'a flaming fire, w/ vengeance'!

 

[Kenny]

But what about all the Christians murdered by Jews. You forget those? Millions of Jews have been killed by Christians over the centuries. And millions of Christians have been killed by Jews. Don't act as if there is only one side of the story.

For me that is irrelevant. (For me)

I realize that the divided nation of Israel, in times past, found Judah (two tribes) killing the Jews of Israel (10 tribes) and visa versa as well as so much more in the thousands of years. Still, two wrongs don't make a right and certainly we can't live forward by living in the past.

Asking forgiveness helps move things forward. It is a way of life and living for me.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

And millions of Christians have been killed by Jews.

Millions? If you believe Jews deliberately spread the Black Death, perhaps...

 

[74x12]

I never said to condemn all Christians. If you continue to misrepresent what I said, I will simply ignore you.

What I did say was that Christians have a 2000 year log history of persecuting and killing Jews. That's a historical fact. Do you dispute this?

It's not like that!

I would limit the statement "Christians" have a history of persecuting Jews to mean those posing as Christians have done so as well as other bad things.

For example if I went back to Europe 1400 AD and told everyone openly what I believed I'm guessing I would be burning on stake! Do you see my point?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Am I mistaken about that verse? I'm the first to admit I'm no expert in the Jewish sacred texts. I just did a Google search, which is not necessarily the final word on the Tanakh.

So that verse isn't really there? Please tell. I'd like to learn if I'm wrong. Thanks in advance.

Anyway, my true sentiment should have been obvious in the part of my post you deleted. I'm all for you!

I have no problems with the Lord saying it. I have problems with certain self righteous Christians repeating it, as if it's their job to judge israel. It's their job to love their neighbor as themselves, which means just as they wouldn't like me to characterize Christians in general as self righteous (whether or not its true), they shouldn't characterize Jews in general as stiff necked (whether or not it is true). I should really take the time to try to find the place where Paul tells Christians not to be arrogant and look down on the Jews. I just don't see why it should go that far. Rude insultiing behavior is obviously wrong.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It's not like that!

I would limit the statement "Christians" have a history of persecuting Jews to mean those posing as Christians have done so as well as other bad things.

For example if I went back to Europe 1400 AD and told everyone openly what I believed I'm guessing I would be burning on stake! Do you see my point?

No true Scotsman has ever persecuted Jews.

 

[74x12]

I have no problems with the Lord saying it. I have problems with certain self righteous Christians repeating it, as if it's their job to judge israel. It's their job to love their neighbor as themselves, which means just as they wouldn't like me to characterize Christians in general as self righteous (whether or not its true), they shouldn't characterize Jews in general as stiff necked (whether or not it is true). I should really take the time to try to find the place where Paul tells Christians not to be arrogant and look down on the Jews. I just don't see why it should go that far. Rude insultiing behavior is obviously wrong.

If it makes you feel better; for myself I'm convinced that any other nation on earth put in the Jew's place would have made the same or equal(maybe worse) mistakes. No earthly nation can live up to this Covenant of Mt. Sinai.

That's why the promise of the new Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It's not like that!

I would limit the statement "Christians" have a history of persecuting Jews to mean those posing as Christians have done so as well as other bad things.

For example if I went back to Europe 1400 AD and told everyone openly what I believed I'm guessing I would be burning on stake! Do you see my point?

I am familiar with the argument, but it is fallacious. It's known as the No True Scotsman fallacy. No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

The fallacy works like this: "I once knew a Scotsman that drank Budweiser." Reply, "No true Scotsman would ever do a thing like that!"

Basically, the people who committed these crimes against the Jews were believers in Jesus, that he was the Christ and that he died for their sins, etc. They had been baptized into the church. They had not left Christianity for some other religion--they were Muslims or Hindus or Atheists. They were Christians.

Were they sinning? Of course. Were they devout, living their lives on the high level that their religion invites? Doubtful.

But they were still Christians.

It's not a whole lot different from some of the Christians (and Jews and Hindus and other people) participating in first the splitting apart of immigrant children from their asylum seeking parents, and now the imprisonment of those children with their asylum seeking parents. It's an obvious human rights issue, but people manage to go to church on Sunday and lock up kids on Monday.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No true Scotsman has ever persecuted Jews.

Touche! Love ya!

 

[74x12]

No true Scotsman has ever persecuted Jews.

I knew that was coming. Now explain these Biblical passages:

For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[74x12]

I am familiar with the argument, but it is fallacious. It's known as the No True Scotsman fallacy. No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

The fallacy works like this: "I once knew a Scotsman that drank Budweiser." Reply, "No true Scotsman would ever do a thing like that!"

Basically, the people who committed these crimes against the Jews were believers in Jesus, that he was the Christ and that he died for their sins, etc. They had been baptized into the church. They had not left Christianity for some other religion--they were Muslims or Hindus or Atheists. They were Christians.

Were they sinning? Of course. Were they devout, living their lives on the high level that their religion invites? Doubtful.

But they were still Christians.

It's not a whole lot different from some of the Christians (and Jews and Hindus and other people) participating in first the splitting apart of immigrant children from their asylum seeking parents, and now the imprisonment of those children with their asylum seeking parents. It's an obvious human rights issue, but people manage to go to church on Sunday and lock up kids on Monday.

You're speaking of the ignorant masses as if they have an original opinion in the first place. Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

The point is who is leading who and who is deceiving whom?

You think Hitler was a real believer? Didn't he praise Islam and wish that Germany was Islamic instead of Christian?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I knew that was coming. Now explain these Biblical passages:

For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Off topic.

 

[74x12]

Off topic.

Hardly, the point is satan is real and his followers pose as Christians and yes as Jews also and many other things. Anything to get what they want.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You're speaking of the ignorant masses as if they have an original opinion in the first place. Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

The point is who is leading who and who is deceiving whom?

You think Hitler was a real believer? Didn't he praise Islam and wish that Germany was Islamic instead of Christian?

No I dont consider Hitler a Christian. He did not believe. The people who committed these atrocities against the Jews in history DID believe. They were Christians.

 

[74x12]

No I dont consider Hitler a Christian. He did not believe. The people who committed these atrocities against the Jews in history DID believe. They were Christians.

Yes they did. Interesting ... the spiritually blind with no back bone of their own. Jellyfish.

The kind of "Christian" same as the Italian Mafia. Going to confession but murdering people the next day.

I am curious. What do you think of Jewish collaborators in world war 2?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes they did. Interesting ... the spiritually blind with no back bone of their own. Jellyfish.

The kind of "Christian" same as the Italian Mafia. Going to confession but murdering people the next day.

I am curious. What do you think of Jewish collaborators in world war 2?

I am conflicted, very conflicted. They are betrayers of the worst sort. But in all honesty the kapos were just doing what they literally had to do to live another five minutes.

What excuse did the Christians have? Who would have killed them if they didn't go to the Nazi headquarters and tell that their neighbor has Jews in his basement?

 

[74x12]

I am conflicted, very conflicted. They are betrayers of the worst sort. But in all honesty the kapos were just doing what they literally had to do to live another five minutes.

What excuse did the Christians have? Who would have killed them if they didn't go to the Nazi headquarters and tell that their neighbor has Jews in his basement?

They would be killed for harboring Jews if they were caught withholding such information. In many ways everyone was being forced; like the Jewish collaborators. Although I admit the Jewish collaborators were in a tougher position.

 

[blü 2]

How is it that these days, when so many Christians are Israel's best ally, that we still have Christians openly insulting Jews? And to twist the knife, the Bible gets used as the excuse!

I keep being told that to oppose the policies of the state of Israel, particularly regarding the Palestinians, is to be anti-Semitic, and I keep replying with a rude word from the beef industry. (My wife was from a Christian family, but proud of her Jewish ancestors, and I was a beneficiary of the exercise book of their recipes she inherited from her mother.) I will happily argue with any Jew about the legitimacy of Palestinian grievances in the founding of the state of Israel ─ to which, you'll recall, the Palestinians were not party.

I'm sorry, but we don't have an intimate relationship with Christians. What we have with Christians is a 2000 year long history of persecution and pogroms, and, ultimately, the Holocaust.

You certainly have that.

As Rabbi Hillel said, What is hateful to you, don't do to others. Or, if you wish, you could take Jesus' hint and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

When the state of Israel gets that bit sorted with the Palestinians, let me know. Meanwhile, the state of Israel aside, my best wishes to followers of the Jewish faith everywhere, excepting (and by no means limited to Jews) the fundamentalists.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

They would be killed for harboring Jews if they were caught withholding such information. In many ways everyone was being forced; like the Jewish collaborators. Although I admit the Jewish collaborators were in a tougher position.

No,sir, because they ar not harboring Jews. It really wasn't anything near the same thing.