• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Loving God = Eternal Torture?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
There is no such thing as a definable difference between "Christianity" and "Christendom." They are The. Same. Thing.

Gospel writer Luke wrote forewarning that there would be a falling away from the 1st-century teachings of Christ - Acts 20 vs 29,30
All one has to do is compare the 1st-century teachings of Christ as recorded in Scripture with the teachings of Christendom's traditions or customs which are Not found in Scripture but taught as Scripture. That does Not make the teachings of Christ as wrong, but makes the teachings outside of Scripture but being taught as Scripture as being wrong.

What would be the point of Jesus' illustration or parable of the separating of the genuine ' wheat' Christians from the fake ' weed/tares ' Christians ? What would be the point of Jesus' teaching that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false in Matthew chapter 7 ?
 

truthofscripture

Active Member
I call bullspit. Yes, the Trinity is pagan, but there is some sense in the early communities of Anointed-believers that Jesus is Divine. But, then, the idea of the eternal soul is also Pagan in origin. The Judaic idea is that dead is dead.

There is no such thing as a definable difference between "Christianity" and "Christendom." They are The. Same. Thing.
Christendom includes ALL religions claiming to be Christian that have teachings different from what the scriptures say, such as cross, immortal soul, hell fire, immortal soul, and many other things. Christianity is not an organized religion with a church and their own teachings differing from the scriptures. Christianity is EXACTLY what Jesus taught. No church, no clergy, no collection basket, no idols, nothing pagan and so on. Christendom's religions have clergy, churches, idols, pagan elements, celebrate Christmas and Easter and such. Christianity doesn't celebrate those because they are pagan. Christendom's religions stem from what Constantine created in the early fourth century. Christianity is what Jesus taught. Nothing more, nothing less. So, yes, there IS a discernable difference between the two. Christianity is a way of life, Christendom is not.
 

dchezik

Member
This demonstrates one of the great failings of Christianity, its lack of internal logic. Although of little concern to the believer, it it's one of the huge hurdles to those on the outside looking to establish its worth.
It has always been curious to me how the Christianity can teach eternal torment is the punishment for not believing. Furthermore, belief is not something that you can freely choose. Myself, I find it impossible to believe something that I am highly confident is false. Christianity is one of those things. I grew up as a fundamental Christian so I have been a believer once. Now I look back and try to analyse why I believed such improbable things and how I came to reject them (after much soul-searching.) For those of you who feel you choose what you believe, try this: Try to believe that a clever malevolent spirit would be so misguided as to war with an omnipotent foe. If you can believe that, try this: Try to believe that because one alleged couple disobeyed a commandment of a deity, all successive generations would be treated by God as they they all had sinned. Now, if you've made it to here, try to believe that the punishment for something as minor as disobeying a single arbitrary command justifies being tormented in a lake of fire forever. Ok, your last challenge: If your soul continues on in an afterlife, try to believe that without any nerve endings, flesh, or sensory organs, fire could make you squirm in pain. It's like Brer Rabbit being thrown in the briar patch. Anyway, were you able to choose to believe any of this arrant nonsense? By the way, I am offering at a special price some prime beach front property in the Mojave Desert, if anyone is interested.
 

truthofscripture

Active Member
It has always been curious to me how the Christianity can teach eternal torment is the punishment for not believing. Furthermore, belief is not something that you can freely choose. Myself, I find it impossible to believe something that I am highly confident is false. Christianity is one of those things. I grew up as a fundamental Christian so I have been a believer once. Now I look back and try to analyse why I believed such improbable things and how I came to reject them (after much soul-searching.) For those of you who feel you choose what you believe, try this: Try to believe that a clever malevolent spirit would be so misguided as to war with an omnipotent foe. If you can believe that, try this: Try to believe that because one alleged couple disobeyed a commandment of a deity, all successive generations would be treated by God as they they all had sinned. Now, if you've made it to here, try to believe that the punishment for something as minor as disobeying a single arbitrary command justifies being tormented in a lake of fire forever. Ok, your last challenge: If your soul continues on in an afterlife, try to believe that without any nerve endings, flesh, or sensory organs, fire could make you squirm in pain. It's like Brer Rabbit being thrown in the briar patch. Anyway, were you able to choose to believe any of this arrant nonsense? By the way, I am offering at a special price some prime beach front property in the Mojave Desert, if anyone is interested.
It is not Christianity that teaches eternal torment, it is Christendom. That is all religions claiming to be Christian. Christianity is what Jesus taught. NO religion claiming to be Christian teaches that. All of Christendom has teachings different from the scriptures, and all of them incorporate pagan things into their religion. It is for that reason that Jesus, and his Father said sects are works of the flesh. It is for that reason that Revelation to John says they will all be destroyed. Do not confuse Christianity with Christendom. There are HUGE differences. The members of Christendom are mostly not aware of the difference. They are so hoodwinked by their false religions, that they swallow what they teach hook line and sinker.
 

dchezik

Member
It is not Christianity that teaches eternal torment, it is Christendom. That is all religions claiming to be Christian. Christianity is what Jesus taught. NO religion claiming to be Christian teaches that. All of Christendom has teachings different from the scriptures, and all of them incorporate pagan things into their religion. It is for that reason that Jesus, and his Father said sects are works of the flesh. It is for that reason that Revelation to John says they will all be destroyed. Do not confuse Christianity with Christendom. There are HUGE differences. The members of Christendom are mostly not aware of the difference. They are so hoodwinked by their false religions, that they swallow what they teach hook line and sinker.
 

dchezik

Member
"So I asked the chaplain: “Do you remember Suzanne? Do you remember what a loving heart she had? Do you think God would put her in hell forever with no chance of escape, just because she was not a Christian?”

And the chaplain said Yes, if she was not a Christian, that is what God would do.

And I know that Suzanne never became a Christian, because I knew her up until her dying moment, when I was with her. Her family surrounded her, and they did Buddhist rites and chants. That was her tradition, it was what gave her life meaning until the moment she died."

You have to understand that hell is used as a negative incentive to persuade people to become Christians. What greater threat could there be than "If you don't believe this you be tormented forever and ever in the fires of hell"? Wow!

The only problem is believing something you think is absurd. If I said there were people living in the center of the sun, and asked you to believe it or I'd beat the crap out of you and set your clothes on fire, would you believe it? You might say you did, but in your heart you'd know it was a bunch of crap!
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
It has always been curious to me how the Christianity can teach eternal torment is the punishment for not believing. Furthermore, belief is not something that you can freely choose. Myself, I find it impossible to believe something that I am highly confident is false. Christianity is one of those things. I grew up as a fundamental Christian so I have been a believer once. Now I look back and try to analyse why I believed such improbable things and how I came to reject them (after much soul-searching.) For those of you who feel you choose what you believe, try this: Try to believe that a clever malevolent spirit would be so misguided as to war with an omnipotent foe. If you can believe that, try this: Try to believe that because one alleged couple disobeyed a commandment of a deity, all successive generations would be treated by God as they they all had sinned. Now, if you've made it to here, try to believe that the punishment for something as minor as disobeying a single arbitrary command justifies being tormented in a lake of fire forever. Ok, your last challenge: If your soul continues on in an afterlife, try to believe that without any nerve endings, flesh, or sensory organs, fire could make you squirm in pain. It's like Brer Rabbit being thrown in the briar patch. Anyway, were you able to choose to believe any of this arrant nonsense? By the way, I am offering at a special price some prime beach front property in the Mojave Desert, if anyone is interested.
You're right on the button.
 

truthofscripture

Active Member
"So I asked the chaplain: “Do you remember Suzanne? Do you remember what a loving heart she had? Do you think God would put her in hell forever with no chance of escape, just because she was not a Christian?”

And the chaplain said Yes, if she was not a Christian, that is what God would do.

And I know that Suzanne never became a Christian, because I knew her up until her dying moment, when I was with her. Her family surrounded her, and they did Buddhist rites and chants. That was her tradition, it was what gave her life meaning until the moment she died."

You have to understand that hell is used as a negative incentive to persuade people to become Christians. What greater threat could there be than "If you don't believe this you be tormented forever and ever in the fires of hell"? Wow!

The only problem is believing something you think is absurd. If I said there were people living in the center of the sun, and asked you to believe it or I'd beat the crap out of you and set your clothes on fire, would you believe it? You might say you did, but in your heart you'd know it was a bunch of crap!
Yes, this is all true, but remember that hell, in the times of Jesus, meant "the common grave of mankind", not some place of eternal torment. The scriptures teach this. It is RELIGIONS that teach the lie that it is a place of torment. RELIGIONS teach that we have an immortal soul, NOT THE SCRIPTURES. They teach that soul and life are synonyms. They do NOT TEACH THAT WE HAVE AN IMMORTAL SOUL. They say that the soul that sins, will DIE. They teach that when we are alive and breathing, we are a soul. They do not teach that we have a soul, but that we ARE a soul. But believing is something THAT WE CHOOSE.
 

truthofscripture

Active Member
"So I asked the chaplain: “Do you remember Suzanne? Do you remember what a loving heart she had? Do you think God would put her in hell forever with no chance of escape, just because she was not a Christian?”

And the chaplain said Yes, if she was not a Christian, that is what God would do.

And I know that Suzanne never became a Christian, because I knew her up until her dying moment, when I was with her. Her family surrounded her, and they did Buddhist rites and chants. That was her tradition, it was what gave her life meaning until the moment she died."

You have to understand that hell is used as a negative incentive to persuade people to become Christians. What greater threat could there be than "If you don't believe this you be tormented forever and ever in the fires of hell"? Wow!

The only problem is believing something you think is absurd. If I said there were people living in the center of the sun, and asked you to believe it or I'd beat the crap out of you and set your clothes on fire, would you believe it? You might say you did, but in your heart you'd know it was a bunch of crap!
HELL
A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheʼohlʹ and the Greek haiʹdes. In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from sheʼohlʹ 31 times and from haiʹdes 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheʼohlʹ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version sheʼohlʹ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once.
In 1885, with the publication of the complete English Revised Version, the original word sheʼohlʹ was in many places transliterated into the English text of the Hebrew Scriptures, though, in most occurrences, “grave” and “pit” were used, and “hell” is found some 14 times. This was a point on which the American committee disagreed with the British revisers, and so, when producing the American Standard Version (1901) they transliterated sheʼohlʹ in all 65 of its appearances. Both versions transliterated haiʹdes in the Christian Greek Scriptures in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Geʹen·na (English, “Gehenna”) is rendered “hell” throughout, as is true of many other modern translations.
Concerning this use of “hell” to translate these original words from the Hebrew and Greek, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: “HADES . . . It corresponds to ‘Sheol’ in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T. [New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered ‘Hell.’”
Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.”
It is, in fact, because of the way that the word “hell” is understood today that it is such an unsatisfactory translation of these original Bible words. Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under “Hell” says: “fr[om] . . . helan to conceal.” The word “hell” thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar.
The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.
“Hellfire” has been a basic teaching in Christendom for many centuries. It is understandable why The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XIV, p. 81) said: “Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.” Nevertheless, such transliteration and consistent rendering does enable the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance.
 

Forever_Catholic

Active Member
Souls in hell (or Gehenna, as Jesus called it) are in the state of spiritual death, which means they are forever separated from God. It does not mean that they no longer exist or will cease to exist. Souls are eternal, and those in hell feel pain just as if the physical senses were intact, because that is one of the properties of the soul. But God is not looking for reasons to send anyone to hell. He creates every soul in his image and likeness with the desire that he or she will choose to love Him and will be one with Him in heaven. He looks for reasons to save sinners.

The sinful woman in the Gospel of Saint Luke did not ask for forgiveness, but Jesus forgave her many sins because she loved Him. He knew this when she washed His feet with her tears and dried them with her hair; when she kissed them and anointed them with perfume. He saved the penitent thief on the cross (also in St. Luke), who had only admitted his guilt and asked that Jesus remember him when He entered into His Kingdom.

No person can know that any other person has been condemned to hell, Christian or not, because no person can know with certainly what is in the mind and heart of another. A person is not condemned to hell simply because he or she has not been taught the Christian Faith and has not been baptized, because people are not held responsible for things beyond their knowledge or control. Jesus wants to save every soul, and no person, despite his or her sins, has lost the opportunity for salvation until after the soul has left the body. Even in the final moment of earthly life, it would require only the asking, either verbally or interiorly, with contrition and trust.

And even lacking that, a dying sinner can be saved through the intercessory prayer of another person, especially if that prayer is the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, which Jesus taught to Saint Faustina to share with the world.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
"At the Council of Maçon in the 6th century the bishops had to vote to decide whether women had souls. The motion was carried by one vote there have clearly been a lot of Christians who have believed (as do scientists) that all the faculties of sentience can be mimicked purely by the body - hence how they could believe that perhaps only men had souls and women didn't, despite the complete similarity in emotional and moral coherence. Do all people have souls? Should Christians believe in souls? Let's return to the Bible and see.

When it comes to quoting verse and chapter, some snippets are unclear. Examine John 11:23-24 andMatthew 10:28. But there are many statements in the Bible that do clearly teach that there is no eternal soul, and that people do not possess any immortal component, and that such immortality, if it is given by God at all, comes after the physical body is resurrected and is granted to the physical body:

  • John 5:28-29: "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out - those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned." (NIV)

  • John 6:40 quotes Jesus saying that on the day of judgement, only believers will be resurrected: "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day".

  • 1 John 3:15: "You know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him".

  • Paul taught that immortality must be sought (Romans 2:5-7) and to gain it, they must first be changed (1 Corinthians 15:51-55) and it is a gift from God Romans 6:23.

  • Paul also describes death as sleep in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

  • 1 Timothy 6:12-16: Only Jesus possesses immortality.
The dead remain dead, in their graves, until the day of judgement. Then, those believers whom are chosen are given eternal life, and thusly their bodies, and brains, continue to live forever. In this scheme, there are no eternal souls. Just bodies, dead or alive. In other words, the New Testament teaches the same thing as the Old Testament in this respect and the Greek concept of an immortal soul was not accepted or employed even though such ideas became increasingly common amongst Pagans and common people.

Gary Petty:

“In the New Testament the Greek word translated "soul" is psuche, which is also translated "life." In Psalm 16:10 David uses nephesh ("soul") to claim that the "Holy One," or Messiah, wouldn't be left in sheol, the grave. Peter quotes this verse in Acts 2:27, using the Greekpsuche for the Hebrew nephesh (notice verses 25-31).

Like nephesh, psuche refers to human "souls" (Acts 2:41) and for animals (it is translated "life" in the King James Version of Revelation 8:9 and 16:3). Jesus declared that God can destroy man's psuche, or "soul" (Matthew 10:28). [...]

Many people are surprised to find that the term immortal soul appears nowhere in the Bible.”

Souls do not Exist: Evidence from Science & Philosophy Against Mind-Body Dualism
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
A Zoroastrian is an adherent to Zoroastrianism, the first monotheistic religion, that is based on the teachings and philosophies of Zoroaster.

Zoroastrianism is a religion and philosophy based on the teachings of prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra - Persian). The term Zoroastrianism is, in general usage, essentially synonymous with Mazdaism, i.e. the worship of Ahura Mazda, exalted by Zoroaster (Zarathustra) as the supreme divine authority. Along with Hinduism, Zoroastrianism is considered to be among the oldest religions in the world.

Zoroastrianism is the ancient, pre-Islamic religion of Persia (modern Iran). It survives there in isolated areas but more prosperously in India, where the descendants of Zoroastrian Persian immigrants are known as Parsis, or Parsees. In India the religion is called Parsiism.

Founded by the Iranian prophet and reformer Zoroaster in the 6th century BC, Zoroastrianism contains both monotheistic and dualistic features. Its concepts of one God, judgment, heaven and hell likely influenced the major Western religons of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.


Date founded: c.6th cent. BC Place founded:Ancient Persia Founder: Zarathustra (Zoroaster)


Zarathustra (in Greek, Zoroaster) was a Persian prophet who at the age of 30 believed he had seen visions of God, whom he called Ahura Mazda, the creator of all that is good and who alone is worthy of worship. This was a departure from previous Indo-Persian polytheism, and Zarathustra has been termed the first non-biblical monotheist. There is disagreement among scholars as to exactly when and where Zarathustra lived, but most agree that he lived in eastern Iran around the sixth century BC.

Beliefs

The Zoroastrian concept of God incorporates both monotheism and dualism. In his visions, Zarathustra was taken up to heaven, where Ahura Mazda revealed that he had an opponent, Aura Mainyu, the spirit and promoter of evil. Ahura Mazda charged Zarathustra with the task of inviting all human beings to choose between him (good) and Aura Mainyu (evil).

Though Zoroastrianism was never as aggressively monotheistic as Judaism or Islam, it does represent an original attempt at unifying under the worship of one supreme god a polytheistic religion comparable to those of the ancient Greeks, Latins, Indians, and other early peoples.

Its other salient feature, namely dualism, was never understood in an absolute, rigorous fashion. Good and Evil fight an unequal battle in which the former is assured of triumph. God's omnipotence is thus only temporarily limited.

Zoroaster taught that man must enlist in this cosmic struggle because of his capacity of free choice. Thus Zoroastrianism is a highly ethical religion in which the choice of good over evil has almost cosmic importance. Zarathustra taught that humans are free to choose between right and wrong, truth and lie, and light and dark, and that their choices would affect their eternity destiny.

The Zoroastrian afterlife is determined by the balance of the good and evil deeds, words, and thoughts of the whole life. For those whose good deeds outweight the bad, heaven awaits. Those who did more evil than good go to hell (which has several levels corresponding to degrees of wickedness). There is an intermediate stage for those whose deeds weight out equally.

Zoroaster invoked saviors who, like the dawns of new days, would come to the world. He hoped himself to be one of them. After his death, the belief in coming saviors developed. He also incorporated belief in angels and demons.

Zoroaster's ideas of ethical monotheism, heaven, hell, angelology, the resurrection of the body, and the messiah figure were influential on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, though to what extent is not known for certain.

Zoroastrianism - ReligionFacts
 

Doug Shaver

Member
So, I've been an ex-Christian for about 4 years now, and one thing still irks me even to this day. In evangelical Christianity (in which I was raised...and I suppose most denominations of Christianity in general,) . . . .
I was an evangelical for a few years (not raised, but a convert), but after I stopped believing in biblical inerrancy, I bounced around some more liberal denominations for a while. I got the impression that belief in an actual hell is really a minority view. If it seems otherwise, it's just because those Christians who do believe in it are more aggressive in promoting their faith than ones who have a more sensible view of God.
 

truthofscripture

Active Member
Souls in hell (or Gehenna, as Jesus called it) are in the state of spiritual death, which means they are forever separated from God. It does not mean that they no longer exist or will cease to exist. Souls are eternal, and those in hell feel pain just as if the physical senses were intact, because that is one of the properties of the soul. But God is not looking for reasons to send anyone to hell. He creates every soul in his image and likeness with the desire that he or she will choose to love Him and will be one with Him in heaven. He looks for reasons to save sinners.

The sinful woman in the Gospel of Saint Luke did not ask for forgiveness, but Jesus forgave her many sins because she loved Him. He knew this when she washed His feet with her tears and dried them with her hair; when she kissed them and anointed them with perfume. He saved the penitent thief on the cross (also in St. Luke), who had only admitted his guilt and asked that Jesus remember him when He entered into His Kingdom.

No person can know that any other person has been condemned to hell, Christian or not, because no person can know with certainly what is in the mind and heart of another. A person is not condemned to hell simply because he or she has not been taught the Christian Faith and has not been baptized, because people are not held responsible for things beyond their knowledge or control. Jesus wants to save every soul, and no person, despite his or her sins, has lost the opportunity for salvation until after the soul has left the body. Even in the final moment of earthly life, it would require only the asking, either verbally or interiorly, with contrition and trust.

And even lacking that, a dying sinner can be saved through the intercessory prayer of another person, especially if that prayer is the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, which Jesus taught to Saint Faustina to share with the world.
Gehenna represents TOTAL DESTRUCTION, not hell (the common grave of mankind). The scriptures clearly teach that we do not have a separate soul that survives death. that is a teaching of false religion, and the teaching is false. Hell, hades, and sheol ALL mean the "common grave of mankind" and the scriptures are very clear on this also. God said that he never even thought of tormenting anyone, ever. He is a God of love, not torture. There is no three headed triune or trinity. The scriptures also teach clearly that God is without beginning or end, but Jesus was CREATED by God. In fact it says that Jesus, God's son, is the "first born of all creation", not God. God cannot be His own son, His own father, didn't create Himself, didn't send Himself, didn't pray to Himself, isn't greater than Himself, or any of the other teachings of false religion. Galations 5:19-21 lists works of the flesh, and included in that list is sects. Catholicism is a sect, a denomination, it is not the original Christianity that Jesus taught. He created no church or religion, but the one true faith as he called it. Once again, no soul leaves any body. Soul means life, not a separate part of us. You've been deceived by Satan, as he is "deceiving the entire inhabited Earth. Remember that Constantine, a PAGAN emperor created the Roman Church (and 70 years later it became the Roman Catholic Church). It is half pagan and half Christian. Anything with even the teeny tiniest pagan aspect to it is an abomination to God. It is unclean, and it is false. Revelation says to "flee from her". It is to the scriptures alone we must adhere and study, not the teachings of ANY religion created by man.
 
Last edited:

truthofscripture

Active Member
I was an evangelical for a few years (not raised, but a convert), but after I stopped believing in biblical inerrancy, I bounced around some more liberal denominations for a while. I got the impression that belief in an actual hell is really a minority view. If it seems otherwise, it's just because those Christians who do believe in it are more aggressive in promoting their faith than ones who have a more sensible view of God.
As the scriptures clearly teach us, hell means "common grave of mankind", and is the same as sheol and hades. Hell most certainly does not mean what Christendom (false religions created by man claiming falsely to be Christian). Hell does most certainly not indicate a place of eternal torture. That is a pagan teaching adopted by Christendom, and promoted by Constantine in 325 a.d. He was the premier pagan emperor who created a state religion for Rome, called the Roman Church. From it stems the Roman Catholic Church, and all other so called Christian religions. Christianity and religions are opposite ends of the spectrum. Christianity is what Jesus taught, and he did not create a religion, he created "the one true faith". He created the Christian Congregation which still exists today, and it has no church, clergy, dogma, or teachings that differ in any way from the scriptures. The Bible Constantine created is half pagan half Christian. From that came almost all English translations, such as King James, Douhay Rheims (Catholic Bible), NIV, ASV, and three dozen other false translations. Satan is misleading "the entire inhabited Earth", and he uses those false religions (Christendom) and false translations. His success is plainly seen in those who adamantly defend these false translations and these false religions. If you read Galations 5:19-21 you will see the "works of the flesh" listed. Therein is included "sects", which are also known as denominations of the original. They are a section, or a breaking away from the original one true faith. There exist 41,000 of them today. They ALL teach things that differ from the scriptures, and they ALL teach something different from all other sects. It would be impossible for them all to be correct. It would only be possible for one of them to be correct, except that none agree with the scriptures. These are a few of the reasons that Jesus taught that they are false religion. It is also why Revelation to John says they are "Babylon the Great", and are known as the world empire of false religion. All of those religions have relations (fornicate) with the world's governments. Since Jesus taught his followers to be "no part of the world", then they are all guilty of being part of the world, and are in opposition to the scriptures. Revelation to John says they will ALL, along with their participants, be destroyed in the very soon to come final battle. The Great Day of God the Almighty. Armageddon. The scriptures indicate that all who are destroyed in the final battle will not receive either of the two resurrections, of the righteous and the unrighteous. They will be destroyed completely with no resurrection hope. Gone forever. This will happen since they oppose God and they oppose Jesus. That makes them antichrist, and antiGod. Revelation says to "flee from her" (Babylon). Religions of man teach that Babylon is something else and not what the scriptures teach. That is so that people won't leave religions. They want them to be destroyed. That is their ultimate goal, to support Satan's opposition to God the Almighty. If you are careful in studying the scriptures, and if God sees in you an "honest heart", then God will reveal, using holy spirit, the true meaning of the scriptures, and you will not be destroyed, but will be protected in the final battle. Any other course means total, permanent destruction.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Sorry you feel my allusion was weak--it was stated by Jesus Christ to the Pharisees, ending instantly their 120-year debate with the Saducees that the Torah lacked proof of afterlife. In this, the very heart of Judaism, where Moses learns the Name and is commissioned unto the Law, God's very name, I AM, indicates the resurrection of the patriarchs including Abraham, the first Jew. Like I said, "I can hardly do better" and I'll take the living Word of Jesus Christ over Bernard Scott's trouble with his own imminent resurrection unto the judgment of the righteous and the wicked.
First of all, Abraham wasn't a Jew. Second, Scott has forgotten more about the bible than you'll ever be capable of learning. It's men like Scott who make the texts available for you to read in the first place (unless you have access to the oldest manuscripts and can read the original languages fluently).
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God's very name is represented by the Tetragrammaton YHWH

Of the two (2) LORD/Lord's of KJV Psalm 110:1 the LORD in all upper-case letters is where the Tetragrammaton YHWH name appears.
The other Lord (Not in all capital letters ) stands for (Not the Tetragrammaton ) but for the Lord Jesus.
No it doesn't. Jesus makes 0, zip, nada appearances in the OT.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Contradiction or reading comprehension ?

Where was Jesus located at Mark 1:9 but -> Jordan
Where was Jesus located at Luke 4:1 but -> Jordan
Where were John and Jesus located at Matthew 3: 5 but the country round about ->Jordan
Where were John and Jesus located at John 1 vs 28 to 33 but also around ->Jordan

Whereas John and Jesus are located according to John 3:23 but -> Enon near Salim ( Not Jordan )
Please notice there is nothing mentioned about Jesus being baptized at John chapter 3
It's a contradiction of historical elements.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Gospel writer Luke wrote forewarning that there would be a falling away from the 1st-century teachings of Christ - Acts 20 vs 29,30
All one has to do is compare the 1st-century teachings of Christ as recorded in Scripture with the teachings of Christendom's traditions or customs which are Not found in Scripture but taught as Scripture. That does Not make the teachings of Christ as wrong, but makes the teachings outside of Scripture but being taught as Scripture as being wrong.

What would be the point of Jesus' illustration or parable of the separating of the genuine ' wheat' Christians from the fake ' weed/tares ' Christians ? What would be the point of Jesus' teaching that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false in Matthew chapter 7 ?
This is not in any way cogent to my point. Christianity and Christendom are the same thing. Regardless of what the writer of Matthew has Jesus say about wheat and weeds.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Christendom includes ALL religions claiming to be Christian that have teachings different from what the scriptures say, such as cross, immortal soul, hell fire, immortal soul, and many other things.
Christendom includes all who claim to be Christian -- even you!
Christianity is not an organized religion with a church and their own teachings differing from the scriptures.
Yes. It is. The teachings don't "differ from the scriptures."
Christianity is EXACTLY what Jesus taught. No church, no clergy, no collection basket, no idols, nothing pagan and so on.
We don't know for sure what Jesus taught, but it certainly has little to do with what you describe here.
Christendom's religions have clergy, churches, idols, pagan elements, celebrate Christmas and Easter and such.
Gee! What a cowinkydink! Christianity has those exact same things! (Minus, of course, the idols.)
Christianity doesn't celebrate those because they are pagan.
yes it does.
So, yes, there IS a discernable difference between the two.
No. There's not. You're creating a false division.
Christianity is a way of life, Christendom is not.
Nope. Sorry.
 
Top