Loving God = Eternal Torture?

[sojourner]

Love is Jesus died as "tribute" so that those destined for Hell need not be. Did you see the Hunger Games movie?

What District do you suppose Jesus represented?



Or is Jesus the Mockingjay?

 

[truthofscripture]

I'm honestly surprised that when you quote an official source, particularly a canonical one, you get comments like that. Are you sure you're not just paraphrasing and maybe doing so inaccurately?

Okay, the Mormon belief in Hell...

We believe that when a person dies, his spirit leaves his body but does not itself die or cease to exist. Rather, it continues to live as a cognizant entity, entirely able to reason, understand and make choices. We do not believe that anyone's spirit goes directly to Heaven immediately upon death. Instead we believe that it resides in an intermediate realm where it can continue to learn and grow until the time that Jesus Christ returns to begin His Millennial Reign and we are called to stand before God in the Last Judgment. For those who have lived righteously and who have accepted Christ and His gospel, this period of time can be likened to Paradise -- the place Christ told the repentant thief who hung next to him on the cross He would see him later that day. It will be a state of rest and joy. For the unrepentant wicked and for those who lived their entire lives never having heard of Jesus Christ, this will not be the case. They will find themselves in "Prison" -- the same place Jesus visited in spirit form during the time His body lay in the tomb. They will be tortured by the memory of their sins and by the knowledge that they must ultimately be held accountable for them. This is one use of the word "Hell" in Mormon thought. It will be an agonizing wait for these spirits.

We believe, however, that God, in His mercy, has provided a means by which those who did not have the opportunity to hear the Savior's gospel during their lives and therefore could not have been expected to accept it can hear it during the period of time in between their death and their resurrection. Believers in the state of Paradise will be proclaiming the gospel to those who are suffering in Prison/Hell. Some will reject their message, but many, having a real desire to know the truth, will hear the gospel, feel genuine remorse for their sins, and accept Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice on their part. When they do this, they will be released from Prison/Hell and will be allowed to join those in Paradise to await with gratitude and joy the resurrection of their bodies.

There is one other use of the word "Hell" in Mormonism. Generally, though, we do not use the word Hell in this case, but the phrase, "Outer Darkness." There are a very few souls whom we believe will conscientiously deny Christ, even though the Holy Ghost testifies clearly to them who He is and what He has done for them. These individuals want no part of God or of Heaven and instead would actually prefer to be with the devil forever. These will not go to Heaven, but will be denied God's presence entirely. After they are judged, they will live eternally apart from God in "Outer Darkness." Certainly, Outer Darkness will be Hell, but we don't believe in a literal Lake of Fire.

It's a shame those beliefs aren't scriptural. They say we do not have an immortal soul, and they say sects are works of the flesh.

 

[sojourner]

It's a shame those beliefs aren't scriptural. They say we do not have an immortal soul, and they say sects are works of the flesh.

It's a shame for you that they are, in fact, part of LDS canon scripture.

 

[Katzpur]

It's a shame those beliefs aren't scriptural. They say we do not have an immortal soul, and they say sects are works of the flesh.

They're entirely scriptural. We just have more scriptures than you do.

 

[truthofscripture]

They're entirely scriptural. We just have more scriptures than you do.

Now that's an absurd post.

 

[sojourner]

Now that's an absurd post.

Why is it "absurd?" Did you know that you have more scriptures than the first Anointed-believers?

 

[Katzpur]

Now that's an absurd post.

I'm sure you think it is, but it's the truth. There are four books in the LDS canon (three in addition to the Bible) and, as far as we're concerned, they're all scripture.

 

[truthofscripture]

I'm sure you think it is, but it's the truth.

Are you saying you've added scriptures to the inspired word of God? Revelation 22:18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll.

 

[sojourner]

Are you saying you've added scriptures to the inspired word of God? Revelation 22:18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll.

They haven't added anything to Revelation. But what have you added that the original believers didn't have?

 

[Katzpur]

Are you saying you've added scriptures to the inspired word of God? Revelation 22:18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll.

Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you're using Revelation 22:18 as your argument. Your logic is so full of holes it's not even funny.

Which "book" do you believe God was talking about? The Bible? Sorry, there was no Bible when God gave this revelation to John. He was clearly saying that no one should make any additions or changes to John's revelation. Furthermore, this verse does not even remotely imply that God had decided to stop talking to mankind. It says that man should not add to Revelation; God was hardly commanding Himself to shut up.

Look, I don't care one bit what you think of the LDS scriptures, but don't try to back me in a corner with nonsense like this. You'll be the laughing stock of this forum if that's the best you can do.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I'm honestly surprised that when you quote an official source, particularly a canonical one, you get comments like that. Are you sure you're not just paraphrasing and maybe doing so inaccurately?

Okay, the Mormon belief in Hell...

We believe that when a person dies, his spirit leaves his body but does not itself die or cease to exist. Rather, it continues to live as a cognizant entity, entirely able to reason, understand and make choices. We do not believe that anyone's spirit goes directly to Heaven immediately upon death. Instead we believe that it resides in an intermediate realm where it can continue to learn and grow until the time that Jesus Christ returns to begin His Millennial Reign and we are called to stand before God in the Last Judgment. For those who have lived righteously and who have accepted Christ and His gospel, this period of time can be likened to Paradise -- the place Christ told the repentant thief who hung next to him on the cross He would see him later that day. It will be a state of rest and joy. For the unrepentant wicked and for those who lived their entire lives never having heard of Jesus Christ, this will not be the case. They will find themselves in "Prison" -- the same place Jesus visited in spirit form during the time His body lay in the tomb. They will be tortured by the memory of their sins and by the knowledge that they must ultimately be held accountable for them. This is one use of the word "Hell" in Mormon thought. It will be an agonizing wait for these spirits.

We believe, however, that God, in His mercy, has provided a means by which those who did not have the opportunity to hear the Savior's gospel during their lives and therefore could not have been expected to accept it can hear it during the period of time in between their death and their resurrection. Believers in the state of Paradise will be proclaiming the gospel to those who are suffering in Prison/Hell. Some will reject their message, but many, having a real desire to know the truth, will hear the gospel, feel genuine remorse for their sins, and accept Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice on their part. When they do this, they will be released from Prison/Hell and will be allowed to join those in Paradise to await with gratitude and joy the resurrection of their bodies.

There is one other use of the word "Hell" in Mormonism. Generally, though, we do not use the word Hell in this case, but the phrase, "Outer Darkness." There are a very few souls whom we believe will conscientiously deny Christ, even though the Holy Ghost testifies clearly to them who He is and what He has done for them. These individuals want no part of God or of Heaven and instead would actually prefer to be with the devil forever. These will not go to Heaven, but will be denied God's presence entirely. After they are judged, they will live eternally apart from God in "Outer Darkness." Certainly, Outer Darkness will be Hell, but we don't believe in a literal Lake of Fire.

Than Mormonism does believe in Hell as envisioned by many Protestants. Which is why I asked. But also, not believing in Revelation as literal or both literal and symbolic (which means examples that are prophetic) but rather as symbolic only... that means there isn't good hermeneutics in place. I believe in a Lake of Fire, a literal Antichrist, etc.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Is God 100% just?



The Crucifixion was an act of tribute?



One fictional item at a time please.

No, God is not 100% just. He is 100% a spiritual being. Thanks for asking, and see the Hunger Games series soon.

 

[truthofscripture]

Than Mormonism does believe in Hell as envisioned by many Protestants. Which is why I asked. But also, not believing in Revelation as literal or both literal and symbolic (which means examples that are prophetic) but rather as symbolic only... that means there isn't good hermeneutics in place. I believe in a Lake of Fire, a literal Antichrist, etc.

If I may, I suggest a much more thorough study of the entirety of the scriptures, comparing each one that seems to teach something that seems amiss, with all other scriptures, so that an accurate discernment may be achieved. Getting the correct sense of EACH scripture is pretty important.

 

[sojourner]

Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you're using Revelation 22:18 as your argument. Your logic is so full of holes it's not even funny.

Which "book" do you believe God was talking about? The Bible? Sorry, there was no Bible when God gave this revelation to John. He was clearly saying that no one should make any additions or changes to John's revelation. Furthermore, this verse does not even remotely imply that God had decided to stop talking to mankind. It says that man should not add to Revelation; God was hardly commanding Himself to shut up.

Look, I don't care one bit what you think of the LDS scriptures, but don't try to back me in a corner with nonsense like this. You'll be the laughing stock of this forum if that's the best you can do.

I don't think he cares if he's a laughing stock, because we're all just indoctrinated by the "false church" and only listening to "concepts of man" anyway. Our opinions of him don't matter, because our opinions are false.

 

[sojourner]

If I may, I suggest a much more thorough study of the entirety of the scriptures, comparing each one that seems to teach something that seems amiss, with all other scriptures, so that an accurate discernment may be achieved. Getting the correct sense of EACH scripture is pretty important.

But then you have to take that a step further and realize that each text creates its own theological construction that can't be mushed with those of others in the way you're doing. 'Having everything mesh" is highly problematic, because they don't always mesh like you want them to. Then you begin to twist meaning to make them do something they were not intended to do. And then the only way to reconcile the twisting is to delude oneself that "God gave me this information," and "all other interpretations are not of God and are wrong." And then one ends up wallowing in one's own delusion.

 

[Katzpur]

It applies to ALL the scriptures,not just to the ones John put his revelation onto.

Prove that one. And prove that God promised at some point that He had nothing more to say.

You're a pretty sad case.

Actually, I'm very happy.

you haven't any sense of what the scriptures say, and profess to know. You then try to teach your misperceptions to others making you God's enemy.

No, I think what you're trying to say is that you disagree with me. It is beyond judgmental of you to declare me God's enemy. You have absolutely no knowledge of what my relationship with God is.

Then you exhibit the opposite of humility and attack God's named people, those who do His work on Earth. Those who work to fulfill Matthew 24:14. You'd rather have the blood of many on your hands rather than do God's will. No scriptures other than the inspired word of God are valid. Any LDS added text makes one God's enemy. There were no prophets after the last of the Apostles died, namely John, while on Patmos. The scriptures to say that. It is the word of God to which we must adhere, and to no man made religions. The scriptures tell us that as well. It seems that you are ignoring many scriptures. They're either ALL true or none are true. There's no in between.

Seriously, it's a waste of my time talking to you. Feel free to have the last word, though, as I'm sure it's very important to you to do so.

 

[Katzpur]

Than Mormonism does believe in Hell as envisioned by many Protestants.

I'm assuming you meant to say "Then" instead of "Than." I know of no Protestants who believe that a person can be released from Prison/Hell after death and remain in Paradise until the Resurrection by making a choice after death. Of course it's possible that I'm wrong. Which Protestants believe that? And which ones believe in "Outer Darkness" as the final destination of a very small number of people after the Final Judgment? I've always thought that "Outer Darkness" was a concept unique to Mormonism.

 

[truthofscripture]

Prove that one. And prove that God promised at some point that He had nothing more to say.

Actually, I'm very happy.

No, I think what you're trying to say is that you disagree with me. It is beyond judgmental of you to declare me God's enemy. You have absolutely no knowledge of what my relationship with God is.

Seriously, it's a waste of my time talking to you. Feel free to have the last word, though, as I'm sure it's very important to you to do so.

What I am saying is that your case is sad to me, as you think you know what God had to say to us, but you don't. It's not that I disagree with you, it's that what you say disagrees with the scriptures. I am not going to prove anything to you, but you should investigate it for yourself, so you know the truth. The scriptures are where you can find the truth about these things, not from other people.

 

[Mukkled]

also , if non believers are going to hill forever then why does believers torture them in life ? why god order to kill non believers and gail them ?! isn't he the one who gave them choice to deny and live their lives ? god torture them in this life and in the afterlife as will ..so god avenge from people for not believing .

 

[truthofscripture]

also , if non believers are going to hill forever then why does believers torture them in life ? why god order to kill non believers and gail them ?! isn't he the one who gave them choice to deny and live their lives ? god torture them in this life and in the afterlife as will ..so god avenge from people for not believing .

All of those answers are in the Bible on your bookshelf, but He doesn't torture anyone, and there is no afterlife.