EDIT: In general means in general, not with every single man every single time.
The above edit is a good addition to clarify your OP, I think. It seems to me that the original wording without clarification is prone to being misunderstood.
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EDIT: In general means in general, not with every single man every single time.
Oh! Don't get me started! The guy I live with....Jeebers! His insufferable views on porn, prostitution, and especially, erotic dance, alone and by themselves are enough to make a seasoned sailor on shore leave cringe in disgust and embarrassment. And the hours -- the days! -- he spends perving on beautiful womensfolk! Well, just don't get me started.
Yeah, we always have to worry about whether or not today's going to be the day we finally rape ourselves. Because, you know, that's what men do... rape things.
As sexy as I am, it's sometimes tough to keep my hands off myself.
Something I have just been thinking about - what is man hating? It almost always comes up when having any feminist discussion which is why we wanted this forum in the first place.
But I was wondering exactly what man hating is within feminism and is there any legitimacy to it being asked to be addressed within feminist discussions? Personally I just see it as a distraction from the real issues, but I've never quite known what it meant.
I for one have a mistrust for men that is different from my mistrust for people in general. I trust women more in my personal private space in general than I ever would with men in general, because of sexual harassment. Would this count as "hating men?"
EDIT: In general means in general, not with every single man every single time.
I disagree with the idea that generalization is always wrong, especially in cases where no harm is done. I've never really associated myself with deontological ethics like that.But that doesn't make it right. If your scenario was one path was someone of your race and the other path was someone of another race, it would be racist to choose the path with your own race if that decision was simple based on race alone. Similarly, it would be sexist to choose a path based on gender alone.
The edit makes all the difference, I think.Something I have just been thinking about - what is man hating? It almost always comes up when having any feminist discussion which is why we wanted this forum in the first place.
But I was wondering exactly what man hating is within feminism and is there any legitimacy to it being asked to be addressed within feminist discussions? Personally I just see it as a distraction from the real issues, but I've never quite known what it meant.
I for one have a mistrust for men that is different from my mistrust for people in general. I trust women more in my personal private space in general than I ever would with men in general, because of sexual harassment. Would this count as "hating men?"
EDIT: In general means in general, not with every single man every single time.
To some extent I would generally view man-hating as basically a tribal mentality of "us vs them", which can include the clearer examples above, but can also include simply blaming only men for the existence of patriarchy. At least in my experience, women are just as guilty as men of sexism towards women, and upholding of patriarchal norms. So I don't usually feel it's right for feminism to be sort of aligned against "men" or male interests in general, and instead think it should be aligned against "patriarchy" or "sexism" or "inequality", regardless of the source.
The edit makes all the difference, I think.
Man hating, in my view, consists of things like political lesbianism, lesbian separatism, and just misandry in general. It also includes unwarranted generalizing, like saying "men are always [...]" or statements like that.
To some extent I would generally view man-hating as basically a tribal mentality of "us vs them", which can include the clearer examples above, but can also include simply blaming only men for the existence of patriarchy. At least in my experience, women are just as guilty as men of sexism towards women, and upholding of patriarchal norms. So I don't usually feel it's right for feminism to be sort of aligned against "men" or male interests in general, and instead think it should be aligned against "patriarchy" or "sexism" or "inequality", regardless of the source.
Not sure if you worded it correctly or if I'm reading it wrongly, but do you mean to say that we created the Feminist Only DIR in order to discuss misandry? I assume you simply meant that we created this DIR for feminist discussion in general whatever the topic?Something I have just been thinking about - what is man hating? It almost always comes up when having any feminist discussion which is why we wanted this forum in the first place.
I don't see any reason why misandry shouldn't be discussed as long as it is not promoted.But I was wondering exactly what man hating is within feminism and is there any legitimacy to it being asked to be addressed within feminist discussions? Personally I just see it as a distraction from the real issues, but I've never quite known what it meant.
No, it might mean that men in your environment are untrustworthy and exploitive. Or it might mean that you have had bad experience with men. Or maybe some of both. It is more common than it should be for men to exploit circumstances in order to get something out of women, naturally women who are effected by it must have good reasons for developing mistrust. It doesn't mean that if you meet a decent man you aren't going to recognize his qualities and feel the same negative feelings you have towards abusive men.I for one have a mistrust for men that is different from my mistrust for people in general. I trust women more in my personal private space in general than I ever would with men in general, because of sexual harassment. Would this count as "hating men?"
Hating is of course wrong... However, the way some men treat women - from two-timing to gang rape and beating - it doesn't surprise me that some women have an aversion to men.
Maybe I'm from another age, but I still believe that a man should be a gentleman and behave honourably and treat women respectfully. If they did, there wouldn't need to be a feminist movement.
Hating is of course wrong... However, the way some men treat women - from two-timing to gang rape and beating - it doesn't surprise me that some women have an aversion to men.
Maybe I'm from another age, but I still believe that a man should be a gentleman and behave honourably and treat women respectfully. If they did, there wouldn't need to be a feminist movement.
Treating women honorably, gently, and with respect is something many of the most patriarchal men in history have aspired to. In itself, that would not necessarily bring about an end to patriarchy.
Thanks for putting it into context, that makes much more sense.Caladan I mean feminists hating men kept being brought up in feminist discussions and derailed the threads which is why we wanted a feminist DIR, so only people who identified as feminists could post here.
Why can't men and women simply talk to each other and treat each other without excessive drama from the Age of Feudal Story-telling? Without the good or the bad. There is nothing wrong with holding the door for someone who's holding something, or showing any other type of common courtesy, but even excessive chivalry becomes overbearing and exhausting.Hating is of course wrong... However, the way some men treat women - from two-timing to gang rape and beating - it doesn't surprise me that some women have an aversion to men.
Maybe I'm from another age, but I still believe that a man should be a gentleman and behave honourably and treat women respectfully. If they did, there wouldn't need to be a feminist movement.
Looking at this thread makes me think of the many times I was called a man hater and dismissed because being labeled as such makes me an easily disregarded and ignored participant in a given discourse. I have been a feminist since I went to grade school and learned that a girl is less than a boy; less important, less intelligent, less capable, less rational , less everything. I knew for a fact that none of this was true since I was not less than any of the boys I knew, and in many instances actually better than they were.
In other instances I could not compete, usually because I did not want to. Then again, that distance ******* contest would have been something I wanted to win but that was a male only event from what I was told; plumbing issue. I learned that intelligence, ability and skill are not gender linked, especially not in the way it was present to children my age.
The most important thing though that I did learn pretty quickly was that women are their own worst enemy!!!!
Every time I or another one of the girls bucked the stereotype and did or said something intelligent, outperformed the boys in sports or building skills, acted autonomous in any way, the other girls would come down on us like a ton of bricks and made our lives miserable.
We had transgressed against the code of the good girl. That meant we were not girly girls who simpered and whined and asked boys for help so that they could show of their superiority in whatever. Then our mothers would get on us and tell us that we would never find a man who would want to marry us because we were not normal.
Some of us caved in and tried to fake conformity. Needless to say, my talents did not reach that far, and I never did then nor do I do so now. I do not think that I need to belabor the fact that it cost me dearly over the years.
But why do non-feminists so often assume that in order to want equal access to resources, equal pay, and equal opportunity translates into hatred of men? I married one, had two sons and have actually never met a man I hated. I do dislike a few, but hate? No, never have I hated anyone. As feminist I simply want the same human rights a man expects to have. Mostly I want the right to be autonomous. I want the rights men take for granted, I dont want to pay higher insurance premiums because I need birth controlmen apparently cannot be made to pay for that (yeah, for virgin birth)while I finance Viagra for men with my premiums.
Health Care Costs Are Greater For Women In Most States
I do not want to be told that I am hysterical or hormonal if I disagree with men about issues they know nothing about. Case in point, I am treaded like the proverbial dumb blond when I involve myself in a discussion on issues concerning science, philosophy, religion, history, and a few other subject dear to my heart. I am often dismissed by those honorably behaving men as an uninformed female until I look up to them (Im short, what can I say) and tell them that I am well qualified to have opinions about such topics since I spent a lifetime studying them and have the various post-bac degrees to prove it. Yet, I men, younger and less educated or knowledgeable than I make inane comments they never get that treatment.
So where is honorable and chivalrous treatment getting us here? I find it patronizing when men treat me as if I were to weak and stupid to take care of myself. And no, I am not talking about opening the car door for me or some such thing. I am talking about men who tell me not to worry my pretty little head about something I cannot possibly understand or know.
No, as a feminist I dont hate men, I get along with them just fine. I also want to make sure that we understand each other here.
Feminism is not a monolith. It is a generalized term that covers the needs of women on a global scale. My needs are not the same as those of a woman in the southern hemisphere, or even a different western country. Never mind about what Indian, Chinese, Ukrainian, South African, or . need and want. Feminism is a local phenomenon. Even if all men could be taught to be honorable, it would not solve the problem of women being treated as lesser humans.
And I stand by my initial comment as well, women are their own worst enemy, they are the ones who teach their children that being female is less than being male. Why else would they buy the slutty clothes and make-up available for 3 to 5 year olds in the first place?
Looking at this thread makes me think of the many times I was called a man hater and dismissed because being labeled as such makes me an easily disregarded and ignored participant in a given discourse. I have been a feminist since I went to grade school and learned that a girl is less than a boy; less important, less intelligent, less capable, less rational , less everything. I knew for a fact that none of this was true since I was not less than any of the boys I knew, and in many instances actually better than they were.
In other instances I could not compete, usually because I did not want to. Then again, that distance ******* contest would have been something I wanted to win but that was a male only event from what I was told; plumbing issue. I learned that intelligence, ability and skill are not gender linked, especially not in the way it was present to children my age.
The most important thing though that I did learn pretty quickly was that women are their own worst enemy!!!!
Every time I or another one of the girls bucked the stereotype and did or said something intelligent, outperformed the boys in sports or building skills, acted autonomous in any way, the other girls would come down on us like a ton of bricks and made our lives miserable.
We had transgressed against the code of the good girl. That meant we were not girly girls who simpered and whined and asked boys for help so that they could show of their superiority in whatever. Then our mothers would get on us and tell us that we would never find a man who would want to marry us because we were not normal.
Some of us caved in and tried to fake conformity. Needless to say, my talents did not reach that far, and I never did then nor do I do so now. I do not think that I need to belabor the fact that it cost me dearly over the years.
But why do non-feminists so often assume that in order to want equal access to resources, equal pay, and equal opportunity translates into hatred of men? I married one, had two sons and have actually never met a man I hated. I do dislike a few, but hate? No, never have I hated anyone. As feminist I simply want the same human rights a man expects to have. Mostly I want the right to be autonomous. I want the rights men take for granted, I dont want to pay higher insurance premiums because I need birth controlmen apparently cannot be made to pay for that (yeah, for virgin birth)while I finance Viagra for men with my premiums.
Health Care Costs Are Greater For Women In Most States
I do not want to be told that I am hysterical or hormonal if I disagree with men about issues they know nothing about. Case in point, I am treaded like the proverbial dumb blond when I involve myself in a discussion on issues concerning science, philosophy, religion, history, and a few other subject dear to my heart. I am often dismissed by those honorably behaving men as an uninformed female until I look up to them (Im short, what can I say) and tell them that I am well qualified to have opinions about such topics since I spent a lifetime studying them and have the various post-bac degrees to prove it. Yet, I men, younger and less educated or knowledgeable than I make inane comments they never get that treatment.
So where is honorable and chivalrous treatment getting us here? I find it patronizing when men treat me as if I were to weak and stupid to take care of myself. And no, I am not talking about opening the car door for me or some such thing. I am talking about men who tell me not to worry my pretty little head about something I cannot possibly understand or know.
No, as a feminist I dont hate men, I get along with them just fine. I also want to make sure that we understand each other here.
Feminism is not a monolith. It is a generalized term that covers the needs of women on a global scale. My needs are not the same as those of a woman in the southern hemisphere, or even a different western country. Never mind about what Indian, Chinese, Ukrainian, South African, or . need and want. Feminism is a local phenomenon. Even if all men could be taught to be honorable, it would not solve the problem of women being treated as lesser humans.
And I stand by my initial comment as well, women are their own worst enemy, they are the ones who teach their children that being female is less than being male. Why else would they buy the slutty clothes and make-up available for 3 to 5 year olds in the first place?