Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

[Mr Spinkles]

You'd think that would scare some people off from taking their pilgrimage. They are feeding off of people's adherance to their faith and using it as a way to go after people they don't think live up to their standards of Islam. how disturbing is that?

Actually I don't think this is a very strong argument Draka. Consider someone who is a true criminal, like a notorious bank robber, or someone who is a ruthless arms dealer to criminals around the world, or something like that. If they are recognized by police, no matter where they are, even if they are on pilgrimage, yes I hope they will be arrested.

So it's not really so terrible that they arrested him on pilgrimage, what is so ridiculous is that this man is going to be executed for an imaginary crime, in a society where even the most sober judges believe in sorcery, jinns, and other nonsense.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

places like China, Iran and Saudi Arabia are giving way too many death penalthies

Yes good point, and the U.S. by the way with 52 executions in 2009. Death Penalty Trends

It sickens me that the U.S. is not in a good position to pressure our own ally the Saudi government, on this man's execution, given our record over the past 10 years.

That's why I think if we truly care about human rights the main focus has to be on our own countries first. Most people are not going to listen to foreign criticism especially if it is hypocritical, I can detect this tendency in myself sometimes when I hear foreign criticism of the U.S.

 

[Andal]

Saudi Arabia really is a disgusting place. The way they have manipulated religion for their own ends is truly disturbing. This case is just one in a long line of egregious human rights violations in the kingdom. To go after someone making a pilgrimage because they broke Arabian law while in another country is idiotic. It's like if the ATF went after Americans from smoking pot in Amsterdam.

The death penalty alone is barbaric and disgusting and it makes me deeply sad that my own country still engages in it. If I were a Muslim I would be furious at this situation.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes good point, and the U.S. by the way with 52 executions in 2009. Death Penalty Trends

It sickens me that the U.S. is not in a good position to pressure our own ally the Saudi government, on this man's execution, given our record over the past 10 years.

That's why I think if we truly care about human rights the main focus has to be on our own countries first. Most people are not going to listen to foreign criticism especially if it is hypocritical, I can detect this tendency in myself sometimes when I hear foreign criticism of the U.S.

Um, in the U.S. we don't execute people for imaginary crimes like "sorcery".

 

[Draka]

Um, in the U.S. we don't execute people for imaginary crimes like "sorcery".

If we did...I'd have been executed when I was still a teenager.

 

[Sahar]

Sorcery is a grave sin and can take the person out of Islam. Owners of such corrupting channels are the ones who deserve punishment. I seriously wonder why such channels broadcast on our Satellites!! Serious measures against such channels should be taken, like banning them? Where are the responsible authorities?
Perhaps the Suadi courts should punish the Saudi princes who own the Satellite channels that spreads indecency and immorality among our societies, instead? :sarcastic

 

[.lava]

Sorcery is a grave sin and can take the person out of Islam. Owners of such corrupting channels are the ones who deserve punishment. I seriously wonder why such channels broadcast on our Satellites!! Serious measures against such channels should be taken, like banning them? Where are the responsible authorities?
Perhaps the Suadi courts should punish the Saudi princes who own the Satellite channels that spreads indecency and immorality among our societies, instead? :sarcastic

never thought of it that way. it is actually weird not to ban channel, letting public watch it then punish the guy. what does it even mean? they're showing off?
interesting point, thank you for sharing and making me see it that way, not4me. and for Suud family, well, money talks and that would be all though nothing lasts forever

.

 

[dust1n]

Um, in the U.S. we don't execute people for imaginary crimes like "sorcery".

Nah, we execute people for other imaginary crimes.

 

[AxisMundi]

Sorcery is a grave sin and can take the person out of Islam. Owners of such corrupting channels are the ones who deserve punishment. I seriously wonder why such channels broadcast on our Satellites!! Serious measures against such channels should be taken, like banning them? Where are the responsible authorities?
Perhaps the Suadi courts should punish the Saudi princes who own the Satellite channels that spreads indecency and immorality among our societies, instead? :sarcastic

And the proof that sorcery exists would be...

 

[AxisMundi]

Saudi Arabia really is a disgusting place. The way they have manipulated religion for their own ends is truly disturbing. This case is just one in a long line of egregious human rights violations in the kingdom. To go after someone making a pilgrimage because they broke Arabian law while in another country is idiotic. It's like if the ATF went after Americans from smoking pot in Amsterdam.

The death penalty alone is barbaric and disgusting and it makes me deeply sad that my own country still engages in it. If I were a Muslim I would be furious at this situation.

Aum Hari Aum!

Not really much different than the way our own politicians and lobbyists manipulate religion for their own ends as well.

 

[Andal]

Not really much different than the way our own politicians and lobbyists manipulate religion for their own ends as well.

Agreed. I guess it's a trade off, we don't execute people for sorcery but we do start fake wars. At least the US does not arrest individuals and execute them solely because of a difference in religious practice.

 

[Andal]

Sorcery is a grave sin and can take the person out of Islam. Owners of such corrupting channels are the ones who deserve punishment. I seriously wonder why such channels broadcast on our Satellites!! Serious measures against such channels should be taken, like banning them? Where are the responsible authorities?
Perhaps the Suadi courts should punish the Saudi princes who own the Satellite channels that spreads indecency and immorality among our societies, instead? :sarcastic

The man was not Saudi Arabian, he was simply making pilgrimage. He did not commit said sin or crime on Saudi soil therefore, should not be prosecuted and given the death sentence. How would you feel if the US started executing Muslims because Islam takes people away from the path of Christianity?

I'm sorry there is no justification in the world to support the Saudis' decision here. The death penalty is abhorrent normally. To use it because someone thinks the other isn't practicing religion properly is wrong. And how insecure do you have to be to think some t.v. show is going to destroy the Islamic religion in the hearts of its viewers? Freedom of belief and thought should be a fundamental human right.

 

[Sahar]

Can the words sorcery and magic be used interchangeably?

 

[monta]

Agreed. I guess it's a trade off, we don't execute people for sorcery but we do start fake wars. At least the US does not arrest individuals and execute them solely because of a difference in religious practice.

No it uses a different criteria.

 

[Sahar]

The man was not Saudi Arabian, he was simply making pilgrimage. He did not commit said sin or crime on Saudi soil therefore, should not be prosecuted and given the death sentence. How would you feel if the US started executing Muslims because Islam takes people away from the path of Christianity?

Well, I basically didn't comment on the sentence. I actually don't know the death sentence is based on what ground.

And how insecure do you have to be to think some t.v. show is going to destroy the Islamic religion in the hearts of its viewers? Freedom of belief and thought should be a fundamental human right.

Freedom of belief is a thing and taking part in TV shows that corrupt the Muslim people's creed and morals is another thing.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Sorcery is a grave sin and can take the person out of Islam.

not4me, it's because I respect you that I say: I think you are too smart and curious to believe in this nonsense. I thought you wanted to see the Arab world embrace science? The belief that anyone is a sorcerer or has magical powers is unscientific superstition, and it is even more unscientific to convict a man for using powers which have not been proven to exist.

If he's guilty of sorcery, then the prosecution must produce convincing scientific evidence the man actually has such powers. After they do that, they will win the Nobel Prize in every scientific field, because this will be more momentous than the discovery of subatomic particles or the expansion of the universe.

If he can predict the future why did he go to Arabia to be arrested? Why didn't he make billions on the stock market or warn the tsunami victims of India? Why doesn't he become the world's most sought-after weather forecaster? Every business, government, and military would be after his services. Instead, a man with the ability to predict the future has some obscure TV call in show in Lebanon and walked right into a trap in Saudi Arabia.

Hundreds of years ago, countries like Britain and France got this right: they adopted the practice of having scientific societies which would test extraordinary claims on behalf of the king. You might be interested to read about the superstition of "mesmerism" which became widespread in France around 1800, and how scientific tests disproved it.

It's pathetic that the horror and irrationality of witch-hunting continues to be practiced by the enlightened courts of any 21st century country.

 

[AxisMundi]

Freedom of belief is a thing and taking part in TV shows that corrupt the Muslim people's creed and morals is another thing.

And Freedom of Speech is recognized as an inherent right in most Nations.

Over here, if we see something we don't like, we turn the channel.

 

[Father Heathen]

Nah, we execute people for other imaginary crimes.

Cool. Such as?

 

[Father Heathen]

Freedom of belief is a thing and taking part in TV shows that corrupt the Muslim people's creed and morals is another thing.

I didn't realize that Islam weakens people to the point that they can't even use their own judgment or make their own decisions? They need to be protected from something harmless and nonexistent like "sorcery"? Ha, ha. Wow.

Avert your eyes, not4me:

 

[Andal]

Ok, so I ask this respectfully to any Muslims reading this. What is your definition of sorcery? How do you prove one is practicing it? Is a death sentence justifiable for it according to the various fiq. What if someone doesn't know they are practicing sorcery?