Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

[Sahar]

Black Magic: Rulings & Remedy - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, adds:

1- Magic has been known as a well-established fact regardless of it changing the forms of things.

2- Magic involves things that may be beneficial or harmful, as Allah says: “learned from these two, magic by which they might cause a separation between a man and his wife…”

3- Magic cannot have any effect save by the Will of Almighty Allah, as Allah says: “…and they cannot hurt with it any one except with Allah’s permission…”


4- Adhering to magic renders one a disbeliever, as Allah says: “…but the Shaitans disbelieved, they taught men sorcery…”

The views of Muslim scholars carry culminate in the following:

1-Attributing the effect of the magic to anything other than Allah renders one a disbeliever.

2-Practicing magic or sorcery for the sake of harming people is totally forbidden. Based on this, it is a form of disbelief to torture people with a magic spell or subject them to the evil of jinn.”

 

[Azakel]

What beliefs here?

There are some people on this site who belief work around magic(k) including Sorcery.

You are talking about MUSLIM societies

No I'm not, I'm talking about how you call what other people believe in a Moral crime and a sin, and have no problem with it. But as soon as someone does the something to your religion you call them out on it. That's what I was getting at and seem quite hypocritical to me. Whether it just your opinion or not.

and as I said before, every Muslim society has every right to protect itself against moral corruption according to the Islamic definitions and you can't take this right, if you liked or not.

I don't want to take there right away. If they wish it kill a man for crimes such as magic let them live in the dark ages. I at lest live in a world where I am free to practice my belief the same way my ancienter have for a long time.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

On the other hand, I believe that magic exists.

Magic, witchcraft, torturing people with a magic spell or subjecting them to the evil of a jinn ..... come on. You believe these things are real, but based on what evidence?

Here is an example of how such claims can be tested scientifically, there are quite simple methods:

Mesmerism (also known as “animal magnetism”) became wildly popular in Paris [around 1800]. According to Mesmer, sickness was caused by “obstacles” to the natural flow of a mystical fluid through the human body. He said the human body had “poles” like a magnet, and that massaging these “poles” in just the right way could clear the “obstacles” and bring people back to health.

Wealthy folks in Paris eagerly flocked to clinics run by Mesmer and his followers for treatment. Mesmerists used a wide variety of strange methods. Sometimes they sat very close to their patient and massaged the “poles” of the body (such as the fingers, nose, or abdomen). Other times, they performed group treatments by tying people together in a circle around a tub filled with iron filings. Iron rods that stuck out of the tub were placed on the areas of the body that needed to be healed. Other groups sat outdoors in a circle around a tree that had been “mesmerized” (charged with mystical energy).

Incredibly, these bizarre methods seemed to work! During treatments, patients would often scream and shake violently (what Mesmer called a “crisis”). Afterwards, many of these patients testified that they were cured. If these treatments worked— and they definitely seemed to—this was a huge breakthrough for science and medicine!
....
A well-known doctor who performed mesmerist treatments agreed to teach the Commission about mesmerism, and helped them do experiments at his clinic.

The scientists watched as the doctor brought his mesmerized patients to a state of “crisis.” Mesmerism had dramatic effects on people who already believed in it. But when the doctor attempted to “mesmerize” the investigators, nothing happened.

The investigators observed, “magnetism has seemed to be worthless for those patients who submitted to it with a measure of incredulity,” which made them very suspicious. It suggested that the dramatic effects experienced by many patients “followed from an anticipated conviction, & could have been an effect of the imagination.”

The investigators came up with a hypothesis: it was imagination that was responsible for the supposed effects of mesmerism, not the invisible liquid claimed by Mesmer and his followers.

Franklin and the other scientists needed to test their hypothesis to find out if mesmerism was a real force. The scientists came up with a number of clever—and sometimes hilarious— experiments to see if the power of mesmerism was real or imaginary.

One test idea they came up with became an important part of almost all modern medical testing. They invented tests where the subject only thought they were getting the treatment, when actually they were not.

In one experiment, they asked a woman to sit in front of a closed door, then made her think a doctor was on the other side mesmerizing her (even though no one was). Sure enough, after one minute her teeth were chattering so loudly from her “crisis” that the experimenters could hear her on the other side of the door!

In another experiment, they got a mesmerist to secretly “magnetize” one tree in a group of trees. Then they asked a boy who was considered sensitive to mesmerism to hug the various trees until he found the right one. The boy put his arms around one tree, then a second, then a third, then finally, after hugging a fourth tree, had a “crisis” and fell unconscious— even though he never went anywhere near the correct tree.

In yet another experiment, they got a mesmerist to “magnetize” different parts of the body of a woman who was supposed to be especially sensitive to mesmerist treatment. Then they asked her what was being magnetized at that moment. She had no problem saying what part of her body was being magnetized when she could see what was going on. But when they blindfolded her, all of her guesses were totally wrong!

Based on many experiments like these, the investigators concluded that their hypothesis was correct. It was people’s imagination that caused them to have such reactions to mesmerism, not manipulation of an invisible liquid or magical energy.

From Junior Skeptic Magazine, copied with permission for educational purposes, http://www.skeptic.com/junior_skeptic/downloads/JrS32-PDF-grey.pdf

 

[Sahar]

There are some people on this site who belief work around magic(k) including Sorcery.

Can you summarize their beliefs for me in 2 or 3 lines?

No I'm not, I'm talking about how you call what other people believe in a Moral crime and a sin, and have no problem with it. But as soon as someone does the something to your religion you call them out on it. That's what I was getting at and seem quite hypocritical to me. Whether it just your opinion or not.

I do think that following other paths other than Islam is a grave sin, atheism and its sisters like shirk (polytheism) are the gravest sins and greatest injustice to one's self. Why should this constitute a problem?

 

[Draka]

I do think that following other paths other than Islam is a grave sin, atheism and its sisters like shirk (polytheism) are the gravest sins and greatest injustice to one's self. Why should this constitute a problem?

Just a question here, but do you have any issue with anyone claiming that following Islam is a grave sin and that its followers do a great injustice to themselves?

 

[Metempsychosis]

Is astrology considered sorcery in Islam?

 

[gnomon]

Would it be wrong of me to buy Sylvia Browne and John Edwards a plane ticket to Saudi Arabia. Probably have to send a few videos to the Saudi moral authority as well.

Oh no!

 

[Sahar]

Magic, witchcraft, torturing people with a magic spell or subjecting them to the evil of a jinn ..... come on. You believe these things are real, but based on what evidence?

Basically, on the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Plus, It's known that some persons can do some stuff that can harm others out there mainly by contacting with the Jinn I believe (I can't believe I am defending this kind of things now). Another thing like al hasad (destructive envy); wishing that a blessing that Allah has bestowed on the envied person be taken away can be observed but is it possible to be verified scientifically? I don't know. But I do believe in hasad. I can observe it. There are phenomena that happen in our world and can't be explained in the light of the currently known laws of science, am I the only one who believe this?

Here is an example of how such claims can be tested scientifically, there are quite simple methods:
From Junior Skeptic Magazine, copied with permission for educational purposes, http://www.skeptic.com/junior_skeptic/downloads/JrS32-PDF-grey.pdf

I don't disagree with you here. There are these stories about persons who are sick and possessed by jinn. A sheikh or a fraud claims to know how to heal such person and force the jinn to leave their bodies and during the treatment session, the possessed person scream and make crazy movements...you know all these crazy things...I am wondering about the truth of such things and I don't believe in them at the same time but I do believe in the presence of Jinn, just like I do believe in the presence of angels or heaven and hell, all this is a part of my belief in the unseen based on God's revelation.

 

[Sahar]

Just a question here, but do you have any issue with anyone claiming that following Islam is a grave sin and that its followers do a great injustice to themselves?

Not at all.

 

[Andal]

Is astrology considered sorcery in Islam?

This is a good question. What exactly constitutes sorcery according to Islam. Which practices are forbidden?

 

[Sahar]

Is astrology considered sorcery in Islam?

...scholars agree that astrology is a prohibited field to deal with. Imam Ibn Taymiyah said: “Astrology that is concerned with studying the positions and aspects of celestial bodies in the belief that they have an influence on the course of natural earthly occurrences and human affairs is prohibited by Almighty Allah’s Book, the Sunnah, and the unanimous agreement of the Muslim scholars. Furthermore, astrology was considered forbidden by all Messengers of Almighty Allah.”

To conclude, celestial bodies are signs of Allah’s Omnipotence and ultimate capability. They have no influence at all on the happiness or misery of people. True is the saying that astrologists are liars even if what they have foretold proves to be true.”

Read more: Astrology: Nothing but Illusions - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar
​

 

[Sahar]

This is a good question. What exactly constitutes sorcery according to Islam. Which practices are forbidden?

All these practices are forbidden but as I understand, Islam acknowledges that magic can have effect on people but astrology is nothing but deception. Thus the position of who actually practice magic is much more serious, it constitutes disbelief.

 

[Azakel]

Can you summarize their beliefs for me in 2 or 3 lines?

I won't waste my time in this thread. If you are truly interested about it then I would say go to the DIR forums and look within the Occult and Magic sections.

[/quote]I do think that following other paths other than Islam is a grave sin, atheism and its sisters like shirk (polytheism) are the gravest sins and greatest injustice to one's self. Why should this constitute a problem?[/quote]
You have all right to feel that way. Just like I have all right to believe that you really don't know what you are talking about and should look into it more to gain a better understanding. Polytheism has been around since the dawn of time and the gods have always walk with us and always will.

 

[Sahar]

I won't waste my time in this thread. If you are truly interested about it then I would say go to the DIR forums and look within the Occult and Magic sections.

Btw Azakel, here I tried to clarify the Islamic point of view and I try to reply to other participants questions about Islam and I didn't tell them "I won't waste my time here, if you truly interested check the DIR. I'll try to check it in the near future isA, though. Thanks anyway.

You have all right to feel that way. Just like I have all right to believe that you really don't know what you are talking about and should look into it more to gain a better understanding. Polytheism has been around since the dawn of time and the gods have always walk with us and always will.

We disagree on this.

 

[gnomon]

Magic destroyed America.

Here's proof.
[youtube][youtube]CxUGR8vc8NE[/youtube]
YouTube - America - You can do magic[youtube]

They were so much better before this.

 

[Metempsychosis]

This is a good question. What exactly constitutes sorcery according to Islam. Which practices are forbidden?

Astrology is vedic.....

 

[Metempsychosis]

Read more: Astrology: Nothing but Illusions - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar
​

Thank you..

 

[Andal]

All these practices are forbidden but as I understand, Islam acknowledges that magic can has effect on people but astrology is nothing but deception. Thus the position of who actually practice magic is much more serious, it constitutes disbelief.

All what practices? Magic is a catch all term and people and religions all have different understandings. So what is Islam's definition of magic? What practices are considered magic?

 

[Andal]

Astrology is vedic.....

Thank god we don't have such strict rules

 

[Metempsychosis]

Thank god we don't have such strict rules

Reincarnation/Rebirth is inexplicably linked to astrology(both past and future)...IMHO,Astrology is banned in some abrahamic religions ,in order to prevent fatalism and cheating that goes on in the name of divination.

BTW..What is the christian take on sorcery and astrology.?