Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

[Gharib]

How strange that they are trying to put him to death for "crimes" that weren't even perpetrated in their country. He lives in Lebanon. His show was in Lebanon. He didn't do any "sorcery" in Saudi Arabia, he was on a religious pilgrimage. Perhaps, if they would have stopped and thought for a moment, he could have been "enlightened" during his pilgrimage and "repented" and stopped on his own. But NOOO, "let's get this guy as soon as he steps foot in our country to go on his religious pilgrimage because we don't like what he does in another country". How vile. I wonder if the fact that his "crimes" were in another country was even brought up? Would it make a difference? I mean, wouldn't that be like us throwing people in jail here who sold pot in Amsterdam?

the laws of islam do not have borders. if you are a muslim and live anywhere in the world the same law applies to all. there is not pat in the shoulder if you are rich or the president.

he should not have even started sorcey in the first place. what you are suggesting is that i kill you then i repent afterwards. i should have thought about it first and then not have killed you. everyone regrets killing another person, who would want to spend his life in prison?

 

[Gharib]

No, I think you misunderstood. I meant you said they made themselves equal to your deity... but if you can make yourself equal to your deity by being able to do that, then he does not appear to be that strong to me. Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant?

well part of being a muslim is openly declaring "There is not god but Allah".
you failed to understand what is meant by "being equal to Allah".

this man might get a fluke, as you said he was lying, so people with weak faith who do not know much about islam will believe him and once they do that then the declaration becomes something like "there is no person who knows the future but Ali Hussain Sibat" this is that equality thing, he may not openly says i am equal to Allah, but his actions lead to him being considered a god or similar.

does that make sense?

 

[Azakel]

yes, lets all forget about all the americans facing capital punishment by their own government.

But none of them are being punished for the 'crimes' of Magic(k). Which is just silly(whether one believes in magic or not), and sick to.

 

[Gharib]

I'd like to say I'm shocked or surprised by this but I'm not. What was his show like anyway? Did he really claim he could predict the future with magic? Even if he did you would think the judges in Medina would realize that no one can do magic.

that is the point, don't fool people into thinking you ca make the impossible possible. muslims are dicouraged from matters that do not concern them. so if anyone wants to have a go, what does sorcery have to do with a TV presenter and a muslim most importantly?

 

[Muffled]

Especially he is not safe in an Islamic state.

The west has outgrown such "Salem type" primative witch hunts.

I have an ancester who was hanged as a witch on Gallows Hill in Salem, MA. The histroies say it was an attempted land grab by her neighbors. The only evidence was a trio of teenagers acting nuts and claiming they were bewitched.

I have two teenage grandchildren and had three teenage children at one point and they were all next to certifiable during those years, lol.

The proble for this man is that the evidence is recorded. I would think that there should be some international law about jurisdiction. It is highly doubtful that this man was practicing sorcery while on Hajj in Saudi Arabia. Evidently Lebanon's laws are quite different. This smells like entrapment to me. If they thought he was a sorcerer they could jhave denied him entrance to the country but instead let him in so they could execute him. How devious can you get?

 

[Kerr]

well part of being a muslim is openly declaring "There is not god but Allah".
you failed to understand what is meant by "being equal to Allah".

this man might get a fluke, as you said he was lying, so people with weak faith who do not know much about islam will believe him and once they do that then the declaration becomes something like "there is no person who knows the future but Ali Hussain Sibat" this is that equality thing, he may not openly says i am equal to Allah, but his actions lead to him being considered a god or similar.

does that make sense?

With your permises, maybe. But I still do not consider it a valid reason to execute someone. Then again, I am not sure I ever do...

 

[Gharib]

But none of them are being punished for the 'crimes' of Magic(k). Which is just silly(whether one believes in magic or not), and sick to.

your perspective is that magic is not a crime. do not judge other people with your perspective. did you ever consider that maybe your perspective might be wrong?

 

[Gharib]

With your permises, maybe. But I still do not consider it a valid reason to execute someone. Then again, I am not sure I ever do...

you are against killing anyone or anything right?

 

[Kerr]

your perspective is that magic is not a crime. do not judge other people with your perspective. did you ever consider that maybe your perspective might be wrong?

Magic, if it exist, can be considered a tool. It is not wrong practice in itself, morality comes into question when you use it. The question is, why is magic wrong no matter what?

 

[Kerr]

you are against killing anyone or anything right?

I am against the death penalty.

 

[Gharib]

exactly. the guy goes there for Umra, visiting Ka'ba and he is arrested by "religious police" which is another point of disgrace. maybe we Muslims should think twice before we visit Ka'ba. such a shame Arabic authority threatens and scares Muslim off..

religious police..

.

.lava i want to ask, are you being sarcastic or is this your actual view?

 

[Gharib]

I am against the death penalty.

but are you against the killing fo anything, big or small?

 

[Gharib]

Magic, if it exist, can be considered a tool. It is not wrong practice in itself, morality comes into question when you use it. The question is, why is magic wrong no matter what?

it leads people to disbelief therefore it is wrong.

 

[Muffled]

that is the point, don't fool people into thinking you ca make the impossible possible. muslims are dicouraged from matters that do not concern them. so if anyone wants to have a go, what does sorcery have to do with a TV presenter and a muslim most importantly?

I doubt that is the point. With God all things are possible. Christians have the power to do things through God and those who follow the devil have been able to do things through him. Jesus said to Peter "get behind me Satan" but didn't tell his disciples to kill him. Context means a lot and who can tell whether a person is really dealing with the devil or just playing games with the accessories?

 

[Gharib]

Actually I don't think this is a very strong argument Draka. Consider someone who is a true criminal, like a notorious bank robber, or someone who is a ruthless arms dealer to criminals around the world, or something like that. If they are recognized by police, no matter where they are, even if they are on pilgrimage, yes I hope they will be arrested.

So it's not really so terrible that they arrested him on pilgrimage, what is so ridiculous is that this man is going to be executed for an imaginary crime, in a society where even the most sober judges believe in sorcery, jinns, and other nonsense.

it is not that sorcery is or is not real, it is about people believing that what he says is real. thus people turn away from the remebrerance of Allah and focus on his future telling lies.

 

[Gharib]

I doubt that is the point. With God all things are possible. Christians have the power to do things through God and those who follow the devil have been able to do things through him. Jesus said to Peter "get behind me Satan" but didn't tell his disciples to kill him. Context means a lot and who can tell whether a person is really dealing with the devil or just playing games with the accessories?

well a person who is doing things through god would not lead people astray from god. if someone who does things out of his own delusional head or with the devil will not lead people to god.

 

[Gharib]

Saudi Arabia really is a disgusting place. The way they have manipulated religion for their own ends is truly disturbing. This case is just one in a long line of egregious human rights violations in the kingdom. To go after someone making a pilgrimage because they broke Arabian law while in another country is idiotic. It's like if the ATF went after Americans from smoking pot in Amsterdam.

The death penalty alone is barbaric and disgusting and it makes me deeply sad that my own country still engages in it. If I were a Muslim I would be furious at this situation.

Aum Hari Aum!

the saudi law about sorcery is the islamic law, with which that man must be judged for being a muslim and accepting that law. he accepted it, no one forced him. it is his problem that he broke it.

how is this case of any benefit to the saudis who have soposedly "manipulated their religion for their own ends?"

you don't seem to be furious about your present situation, why would you be furious about an imaginary sitation?

 

[Gharib]

Um, in the U.S. we don't execute people for imaginary crimes like "sorcery".

um, in islam we don't make drugs available to everyone and then punish them for using it.

 

[Azakel]

your perspective is that magic is not a crime.

That's because it's not.

do not judge other people with your perspective.

I could say the same. Yet you say this man should die anyways.

did you ever consider that maybe your perspective might be wrong?

All the time. But I have been a precautionary of 'Magic(k)' for about 7 years now and highly doubt I am wrong in this one(whether or not what this man did was magic, and whether magic is real or not doesn't matter).
What about you, do you ever consider that your perceptive might be wrong?

Magic, if it exist, can be considered a tool. It is not wrong practice in itself, morality comes into question when you use it. The question is, why is magic wrong no matter what?

What Kerr says right here.

 

[Gharib]

Sorcery is a grave sin and can take the person out of Islam. Owners of such corrupting channels are the ones who deserve punishment. I seriously wonder why such channels broadcast on our Satellites!! Serious measures against such channels should be taken, like banning them? Where are the responsible authorities?
Perhaps the Suadi courts should punish the Saudi princes who own the Satellite channels that spreads indecency and immorality among our societies, instead? :sarcastic

i agree, that needs to be done. everyone involved should be braught to justice.