Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

[dust1n]

Cool. Such as?

Political Prisoners in the US - alphabetical listing

Or if you would prefer something not related to politics, I would suggest reading up on the West Memphis Three.

EDIT: Not to mention the few hundred thousand people in jail for marijuana possession with not one violent crime under their belt.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

If the Arabian religious police have the authority to arrest and execute foreign citizens, for the crime of peacefully practicing their own religion where it is legal in their own country, isn't that at least a violation of foreign sovereignty? Out of respect for the sovereignty of other nations, isn't it customary to *deport* such people? It sounds like protecting "the Muslim people's creed and morals" trumps protecting the independence and laws of the Muslim, Christian, and secular citizensof Lebanon.

I expect, but I don't know, that the Arabian religious police would never try to do this to an American citizen, at most they would deport him/her. But Lebanon, I suppose, it powerless to defend its citizens abroad. I wonder, if the Arabian religious police had the power to infiltrate Lebanon and kidnap this man, and bring him back to Arabia for trial, would it be justified in order to protect "the Muslim people's creed and morals"? Is the only thing discouraging them from doing this the over-awing power of the West?

 

[.lava]

And Freedom of Speech is recognized as an inherent right in most Nations.

Over here, if we see something we don't like, we turn the channel.

but that does not make hypocritical stand of Saudi authority disappear, does it?

.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I hope you won't go on pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia, .lava until they change these practices. I'm not sure how they would react to your brand of Sufi Islam, even though it is perfectly legal and harmless in Turkey.

 

[Azakel]

Sorcery is a grave sin and can take the person out of Islam. Owners of such corrupting channels are the ones who deserve punishment. I seriously wonder why such channels broadcast on our Satellites!! Serious measures against such channels should be taken, like banning them? Where are the responsible authorities?
Perhaps the Suadi courts should punish the Saudi princes who own the Satellite channels that spreads indecency and immorality among our societies, instead? :sarcastic

Oh so now Sorcery is a crime? I'm sorry but you are putting down some people beliefs here. If you don't like people doing to your belief then don't do it to others. And don't even say it's just your opinion, because the same can be said for other people calling out your beliefs.
Think about it.

 

[AxisMundi]

but that does not make hypocritical stand of Saudi authority disappear, does it?

.

Who said I was trying to defend Saudi?

 

[.lava]

Ok, so I ask this respectfully to any Muslims reading this. What is your definition of sorcery? How do you prove one is practicing it? Is a death sentence justifiable for it according to the various fiq. What if someone doesn't know they are practicing sorcery?

sorcery is witchcraft and magic basicly.
how do i prove? personally? i don't feel comfortable answering that question, excuse for that please. IMO death sentence should be the last thing to consider. i dislike Saudi judgement, because many people gets killed legally very easily. the only death penalthy in Qur'an is for people who attempt to kill messengers of God. there are verses about magic and stuff but no punishment was provided. it is more like a test matter because two angels brought the knowledge of sorcery on Earth in the first place. well, what if someone had nothing to do with sorcery? could he prove it? i think not

.

 

[Azakel]

Can the words sorcery and magic be used interchangeably?

Yes, the can for the most point. But what's your point, if don't know anything about the subject?

 

[Azakel]

sorcery is witchcraft and magic basicly.

I'm sorry .lava but Sorcery and Witchcraft are to different things. The are both Magic(k) based, base the forms and so on are to different animals.

 

[SugaCubez352]

Meh... I see nothing wrong with the Mutaween and what they do. It's nothing new really. Didn't Europe go thru 500 years of this stuff a la the Inquisition? Look how they turned out.

Why should a Muslim be afraid to go on a Hajj and visit Mecca if he or she truly follows his/her religion as the religion dictates?

I think every religion has the right and power to enforce its religious laws on its own religious followers. If you choose to be a member of a religion, then it is your religious responsibility to uphold and follow the religion's laws or be dealt with according to what the religion dictates on how apostates and heathens are to be dealt with. Otherwise, why join an organized religion if you aren't going to do and believe everything that religion teaches?

This would teach people a lesson so that they think twice before joining a religion in the first place. Can you imagine how many Christians in America would be executed and stoned to death if Christianity had a religious police? A lot, judging by the divorce rate (divorce according to the bible is adultery).

It looks like it took Europeans about 1000 years to get smart enough to free themselves from the tyranny of their old world religion. Lets see how long it takes the billions of Muslims to learn the same. You think they'll free themselves in less then a 1000 years?

 

[Father Heathen]

Political Prisoners in the US - alphabetical listing

Or if you would prefer something not related to politics, I would suggest reading up on the West Memphis Three.

EDIT: Not to mention the few hundred thousand people in jail for marijuana possession with not one violent crime under their belt.

They execute people for marijuana possession in the U.S.?

 

[.lava]

Who said I was trying to defend Saudi?

and who said that i said you're defending Saudi?

.

 

[Andal]

sorcery is witchcraft and magic basicly.
how do i prove? personally? i don't feel comfortable answering that question, excuse for that please. IMO death sentence should be the last thing to consider. i dislike Saudi judgement, because many people gets killed legally very easily. the only death penalthy in Qur'an is for people who attempt to kill messengers of God. there are verses about magic and stuff but no punishment was provided. it is more like a test matter because two angels brought the knowledge of sorcery on Earth in the first place. well, what if someone had nothing to do with sorcery? could he prove it? i think not

.

Thanks for the reply .lava,

So if I understand right, sorcery in Islam would be the use of incantations and rituals to influence nature and experience? For example, using an incantation to bring monsoons or maybe to get the job one is interviewing for?

If sorcery comes from angels then that would lead me to believe that it does have a valid application? If so why would Islam make illegal something that was brought by angels?

Thanks for answering these questions

 

[.lava]

I hope you won't go on pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia, .lava until they change these practices. I'm not sure how they would react to your brand of Sufi Islam, even though it is perfectly legal and harmless in Turkey.

actually most of people of my commune is there now

.

 

[AxisMundi]

and who said that i said you're defending Saudi?

.

And Freedom of Speech is recognized as an inherent right in most Nations.

Over here, if we see something we don't like, we turn the channel.

but that does not make hypocritical stand of Saudi authority disappear, does it?

.

.....

 

[.lava]

Thanks for the reply .lava,

So if I understand right, sorcery in Islam would be the use of incantations and rituals to influence nature and experience? For example, using an incantation to bring monsoons or maybe to get the job one is interviewing for?

If sorcery comes from angels then that would lead me to believe that it does have a valid application? If so why would Islam make illegal something that was brought by angels?

Thanks for answering these questions

no problem all the knowledge is from God. magic was brought as a test matter. if it is forbidden today, that's because human failed it. i can't recall the place at the moment but i think it is somewhere in Asia where these human-looking angels met people and told them about this power. they also explained, it is a great responsibility, a serious test matter and they warned people about its weight. people took it knowing that it would be dangerous and used it on couples first. for example when husband and wife had fight and broke up, they used this power to bring them back together, for good purposes, i mean, just to make peace between people. though the same knowledge could be used negatively, to break up couples for instance. so people failed the test by using this power negatively. once they figured out how to control mind of people from distance, they started controling leaders, people who write history. according to our teachings it still goes on. there are world leaders who make desicions under spells. anyways. it is an interesting subject. long story short, people have started to use sorcery for selfish reasons without caring goodness of others, therefor God banned usage of that knowledge. until then it became a grave sin as not4me has said earlier

.

 

[.lava]

.....

OK, over there you change the channel and even if you don't the speaker you see on TV would not get killed by doing his job. so there's balance. this is not about free speech. no doubt there is censorship in your nation too since there is almost in every nation. so Saudi authority can ban any channel they want in the name of protecting their social norms. it is their business to know. they don't do it but they punish the guy. so there is no balance and this is not about free speech again.

so...the problem here is not about free speech itself. freedom has always have limits. governments and their laws decide according to their culture and tradition. so, problem here is more like giving freedom and then punishing people for it. that was my point. i hope i made myself clear this time. i am definetely not saying you're defending Saudi and so far i see noone really is

.

 

[Sahar]

not4me, it's because I respect you that I say: I think you are too smart and curious to believe in this nonsense. I thought you wanted to see the Arab world embrace science? The belief that anyone is a sorcerer or has magical powers is unscientific superstition, and it is even more unscientific to convict a man for using powers which have not been proven to exist.

If he's guilty of sorcery, then the prosecution must produce convincing scientific evidence the man actually has such powers. After they do that, they will win the Nobel Prize in every scientific field, because this will be more momentous than the discovery of subatomic particles or the expansion of the universe.

If he can predict the future why did he go to Arabia to be arrested? Why didn't he make billions on the stock market or warn the tsunami victims of India? Why doesn't he become the world's most sought-after weather forecaster? Every business, government, and military would be after his services. Instead, a man with the ability to predict the future has some obscure TV call in show in Lebanon and walked right into a trap in Saudi Arabia.

Hundreds of years ago, countries like Britain and France got this right: they adopted the practice of having scientific societies which would test extraordinary claims on behalf of the king. You might be interested to read about the superstition of "mesmerism" which became widespread in France around 1800, and how scientific tests disproved it.

It's pathetic that the horror and irrationality of witch-hunting continues to be practiced by the enlightened courts of any 21st century country.

First of all, if I as a Muslim ever believed that anyone knows the future besides Allah, it means I committed the major sin of shirk. That's why this kind of people corrupts Muslims' creed. If someone ever claimed he knows the future then he is a liar and if people sought such person to ask him about the future, they are committing sin and if they believed that he actually can know the future, this is SHIRK.

On the other hand, I believe that magic exists.

 

[gnomon]

Somebody warn Daniel Radcliffe!

 

[Sahar]

Oh so now Sorcery is a crime? I'm sorry but you are putting down some people beliefs here. If you don't like people doing to your belief then don't do it to others. And don't even say it's just your opinion, because the same can be said for other people calling out your beliefs.
Think about it.

What beliefs here? You are talking about MUSLIM societies and as I said before, every Muslim society has every right to protect itself against moral corruption according to the Islamic definitions and you can't take this right, if you liked or not.

Back to the Saudi sentence, as I said I didn't comment on it because there are certain problems arise which are confusing to me. They are the same problematic things that people mentioned here. What he did was on TV; on a Lebanese station, what's the court's definition of sorcery here? Is the show based on prediction of the future? If so, it means he is a fraud and if so, then the death penalty is based on what? The guy is visiting the ka'ba, what if he wanted to repent? What if someone wanted to visit the Ka'ba and he committed crimes? Can't the Saudi authority ban the entrance of such person to its lands instead? Can the Saudi authority allow and ban who she wants from performing hajj or 'Umrah? But how come, it's the holy land for Muslims?
I don't know how things work...