and why do you think you should use diplomatic pressure or any pressure at all to make me apply your own standards ? what gives you the right to impose them by any means at all ?
This isn't about you, maro. You're not the victim. This is about Mr. Sibat, his guilt or innocence, and his life. I think diplomatic pressure should be used, not to "apply my own standards", but to appeal or advocate on behalf of Mr. Sibat, because I think it's wrong to execute a foreign national for pretending to be Gandalf from Lord of the Rings.
maro said:
what do you think of an islamic country using diplomatic pressure on other non islamic countries to ban alcohol and sodomy ? is this acceptable ?
Acceptable, as in, do they have the right to do this? I think so. I wouldn't like it, and I would use counter-diplomacy and I don't think this would go anywhere.
maro said:
Actually ,the "arrogance " lies in the word "pressure" itself
Normally I guess I should try to be more sensitive to the abuses of "pressure" and the balance of power in the world. However, I don't think it's inappropriate in this case. I wish American voters and the world would apply more political pressure on the U.S. to close Guantanamo, by the way.
maro said:
of course i myself need evidence to believe in the revealation on the first place....but once i believe in the revealtion ,i don't need evidence for every single word in it
So ,if you want evidence that the quran in the divine revealtion to humanity...it's out there....but if you want evidence for every single word in it....i can't promise you ,honestly
That's reasonable, maro. For practical reasons, I can say I believe what's in my physics textbook based on evidence, but I personally can't provide evidence for every word. OTOH if there was no evidence for a particular idea in my book, I would have to admit that part must be unfounded or erroneous.
sure..and it has been proved....them man was caught with the money he took for doing magic...and with the tools usually used by magicians....and also ,he confessed
First of all, what tools? Secondly, this does not prove he violated the laws of physics, or that he harmed anyone, or had the potential to harm anyone with real magical powers. He could merely *believe* he has magical powers, but actually he doesn't, he is just superstitious or a little insane, but as harmless as a child who threatens to unleash their imaginary friend on us. Or, he could have done this as a scam to get money, but at no point did he actually have the power to harm anyone with magic, or had any intention of doing so. His confession could be false because he thought that's what his interrogators wanted to hear and they would send him back to Lebanon. Or, it could be false because he merely *believes* he cast magic spells on people, but he's delusional.
if we found a dead body on the floor...and someone next to it , with a bloody knife in his hand ..what are we supposed to think ? that he did it ,right ? and you probably will accept that because you believe "murder" exists....we don't have to prove "murder" for you first....we only need to prove that the man did it..which is much easier
Right. Murder doesn't violate the laws of physics and there are no cases of people stabbing each other, and nothing happens, it's all imaginary. There are plenty of cases of people trying to cast spells on each other, and nothing happens, and there are NO documented cases where something magical happened.
considering that we believe magic exists ,and this is a fact for us , i see the evidence that the man was practicing it very satisfying.....and considering that you don't believe magic exists , no amount of proof will be satisfactory for you....and this is not really our problem ,it's yours
It's Mr. Sibat's problem, first and foremost, and the problem of his executioners. I see what you're saying. But you're wrong to say no amount of proof will be satisfactory to me. Zero proof is definitely unsatisfactory to me.
I believe you also know muslims who believe extramarital sex is okay...and dating non muslims is also fine...right ?
The type of muslims you know are very interesting really...probably "enlightened" or "liberal " or " progressive "
if you are looking forward for all muslims to be as *progressive* and *enlightened * as your friends...you will be extremely disappointed ,i am afraid...live with it
I am trying to talk about Mr. Sibat and the evidence against him ... it seems like you keep bringing the discussion back to yourself and me personally. Why?
