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Man sentenced to death for sorcery.
- Thread starter Father Heathen
- Start date
Muffled
Jesus in me
This could lead to circular reasoning. If sorcery is automatically considered as leading a person away from God, there is no consideration as to whether the person is actually doing that or not.
I used to read astrology charts until my wife and cousing got together and prayed me out of it. (Jesus never said a word about it until those two prayed) Since the nonth house is the area of religion, it automatically gave me a reason to talk about a person's spirituality and an opportunity to witness to them of the saving grace of Jesus.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I thought whenever we had a discussion, it was because you were interested in having a discussion together, as I was. Now you decide to reveal to me that actually, you don't care what I think because I'm "materialistic kuffar" and the discussions I thought we were having were nothing of the sort. Nice. :clap
Aren't you concerned that this man's confession may possibly have been extracted by torture? It seems his trial was secret and he did not have legal representation. His head will never reattach to his body once it is chopped off, you know.
Sharing our opinions is well and good, I didn't say that I am not interested in having discussions. But basically, the principles of Muslims shouldn't be based on what non Muslims might think or like, especially our views on life and on the definition of the human being are very different if not two opposites. And you don't have a right to tell Muslims how to run their lives or to interfere with Muslims' internal affairs especially the legal system (that is supposed to be independent but I know it's not the case in Saudi Arabia).
I see this as effectively arguing that human rights do not cross borders. Was that your intent?
Personally, I see no problem with condemning a murder, even if the murder is being carried out by another country's government.
gnomon
Well-Known Member
Here's an update.
Human beings interact notwithstanding their religious or political views. If human beings are not to communicate different ideas or trade with each other, which is always going to involved some interference with each others internal affairs, then you....
Well you might as well start building walls.
As well, if a story breaks that a person is being put to death for a reason I disagree with, than to withhold my moral opinion is to basically deny I even have a moral opinion.
No one should do that on the notion that it might upset someone else or interfere with what they think applies to a certain group.
:yes:
All this does not suprise me. In many Islamic ruled states not only can you be executed for Sorcery, but women can be executed just for dancing. And it is all done in the name of the "merciful" Allah. It all makes me grateful that I live in a free and progressively tolerant society. I would rather die than live in a country governed by Islamic laws. Suprisingly I know of two Setians who live in Islamic countries, Kuwait is one of them. I don't know how they do it. Kuwait, however, I think has become more progressive, free and tolerant.
I Am
Member
As far as I know, Egypt is a republic and allows for freedom of oppinion.
But the Quran is not a book of science.
So he didn't actually do anything to harm anyone... but he's being punished irregardless? Because a book written a thousand years ago says so? Don't you feel that's a bit absurd?
kai
ragamuffin
His lawyer, May el-Khansa, says she has been told Mr Sabat is due to be executed this week.
BBC News - 'Sorcerer' faces imminent death in Saudi Arabia
BBC News - 'Sorcerer' faces imminent death in Saudi Arabia
I don't know why people are upset about this. The "Sorcerer" knew that his practice is not allowed in Saudi Arabia, but he went to the Saudi Embassy, applied for a visa, and agreed to abide by the Saudi law, and went there to offer his services. He started practicing because he thought he won't get caught for being a *Sorcerer* maybe?!
If i knew that smoking in public will cause me to be beheaded in a specific country, i will either happily smoke in my country, or i would i go to that country and never smoke. So simple.
Most of the Westerners who go to Saudi Arabia been good boys in understanding the laws there, that's why many of them lived there for so many years without risking their head being chopped off.
If i knew that smoking in public will cause me to be beheaded in a specific country, i will either happily smoke in my country, or i would i go to that country and never smoke. So simple.
Most of the Westerners who go to Saudi Arabia been good boys in understanding the laws there, that's why many of them lived there for so many years without risking their head being chopped off.
kai
ragamuffin
I don't know why people are upset about this. The "Sorcerer" knew that his practice is not allowed in Saudi Arabia, but he went to the Saudi Embassy, applied for a visa, and agreed to abide by the Saudi law, and went there to offer his services. He started practicing because he thought he won't get caught for being a *Sorcerer* maybe?!
If i knew that smoking in public will cause me to be beheaded in a specific country, i will either happily smoke in my country, or i would i go to that country and never smoke. So simple.
Most of the Westerners who go to Saudi Arabia been good boys in understanding the laws there, that's why many of them lived there for so many years without risking their head being chopped off.
beheading has a tendency to upset people Tashan. I find this story Bizarre, i find the whole subject of sorcery bizarre but i would i don't believe in it. I don't beleive it even exists so in my eyes he is being killed for something that doesn't even exist. Thats just my opinion of course.
And of course The Saudis have their own laws and yes you know that when you go there, but that doesn't mean i cant say "hold on a minute that's ridiculous"
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Tashan I thought you said you were going to show us the evidence. So far, we have a videotaped confession, and allegations that he possessed "tools" of magic but nothing specific about what those tools were, or what exactly he did, that put anyone in danger of harm. You posted photographs but then you said those weren't photographs of things found on Mr. Sibat and you didn't elaborate. What were the "tools"?
The videotaped confession is evidence but not convincing evidence, especially considering the fact that this guy was in custody for over two years now and Saudi authorities have a history of using torture to get confessions.
The videotaped confession is evidence but not convincing evidence, especially considering the fact that this guy was in custody for over two years now and Saudi authorities have a history of using torture to get confessions.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
to control a devil and make it do things one doesn't need a witches hat, a flying broom nor a magic wand. to control a devil one just needs to remember a few things ("spells") and thats about it.
it wasn't him that was doing the magic, it is the devil obeying his commands. obvioulsy devils are unseen to the human eye, unless they want to be seen. he doesn't have any magical powers, appart from those 'spels' to control the devil.
it wasn't him that was doing the magic, it is the devil obeying his commands. obvioulsy devils are unseen to the human eye, unless they want to be seen. he doesn't have any magical powers, appart from those 'spels' to control the devil.
blackout
Violet.
People with money should be beheaded as well.
Money both raises, and controls many Devils.
Devils often hide behind the power of their money,
and their master's money.
And of course the "master" "Spells out"
what his little minion Devils will do.
(all without a witches hat, a broom, or a wand)
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Mr Spinkles
Mr
Amazing, so basically this is a crime which by definition cannot be proved or disproved by evidence. This reminds me of the anthropologist's observations of witchcraft belief in African tribes, which I cited earlier:
"Witches are active at night and cannot be seen or discovered by ordinary means. Everything connected with witchcraft takes place in a fantasy realm which is, almost ex hypothesi, intangible and beyond empirical verification. This is shown most clearly in the tenet that it is only the "shadow-souls" of witches which roam about and attack victims, while their bodies remain asleep at home, thus deceiving any ordinary attempts at proving, or disproving, these mystic activities." - Nadel, 1952.
How do you know someone is guilty if the only connection between the actual crime, and the accused perpetrator, are unprovable, invisible, supernatural influences? The accused could be at home, fast asleep, miles away, at the time of the crime and still be convicted -- how? What if he's innocent, how would you know?
kai
ragamuffin
lol, yeah, i believe you have the right to do that as long as you are outside Saudi Arabia.
Yes indeed!!!
kai
ragamuffin
But wheres the evidence???????????? Please excuse me if i offend but in my opinion its all superstitious nonsense.
Excuse me? What evidence?
I don't remember that i ever promised to bring any evidence. Can you please show me in which post did i say that? He is a Sorcerer and got caught at the delivery time on a set up made by the religious police. He confessed that he came to Saudi Arabia for that purpose and that's end of the story.
You make it sound as if i was trying to deceive people or something. I gave people a link to some tools being used in this type of magic but i never claimed it belonged to Sibat. You know, i disagreed with you on many things in the past but we had good discussions because you were discussing in a respectful manner, but not recently.
We don't have police reports. So, maybe you have a better idea on how to verify your doubts? Speculations on this matter won't be useful because it's baseless.
For instance, in the US, people still have faith in the government and its decisions although the whole world know what happened in Gitmo.
Now you are coming to me saying that Saudi Arabia use torture, and that's why ALL her decisions are false and shouldnt be trusted! Yeah, we can only trust the barbarians who have thrown children in Gitmo without trial and still keeping them there even after electing Obama, not to mention the prisoners who been killed in Gitmo then claiming afterward that it was a suicide, ********.
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