Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

[blackout]

So the "charge" really is one of blasphemy then.

No matter what the intent,
no matter what the outcome.

So why charge them of "Sorcery".
Just charge them of "Blasphemy".

It's a more accurate charge.

 

[kai]

So the "charge" really is one of blasphemy then.

No matter what the intent,
no matter what the outcome.

So why charge them of "Sorcery".
Just charge them of "Blasphemy".

It's a more accurate charge.

well its all very puzzling because according to the BBC article:

There is no legal definition of witchcraft in Saudi Arabia, but horoscopes and fortune telling are condemned as un-Islamic.

 

[blackout]

Oh i think their consistant , you must devote your heart to Allah,you should seek no other help, no other guidance, no other assistance in any form or fashion other than Allah for the organization or altering of your life for any reason.

Don't people have careers and businessees?

Aren't there differing levels of wealth between families?

Don't some have greater monetary advantage than others?

Is a Bank Loan a form of assistance?

Is the Purposful organizing and building and expansion of your business
with the assistance of money,
not the very same thing?

Without the money... how are you going to alter all of these things.
and so you alter your life,
for the sake of the money.

Money is a talisman.
Do they have no money?

Money= Blasphemy

 

[kai]

latest news;


Lebanese "sorcerer" not facing imminent execution: envoy




Lebanon's ambassador to Riyadh said Thursday that he had not been informed by the Saudi authorities of the imminent execution of a Lebanese man found guilty of sorcery, as his lawyer has warned.

Lebanese "sorcerer" not facing imminent execution: envoy

 

[kai]

Don't people have careers and businessees?

Aren't their differing levels of wealth between families?

Is a Bank Loan a form of assistance?

Is the Purposful organizing and building and expansion of your business
with the assistance of money,
not the very same thing?

Without the money... how are you going to alter all of these things.
and so you alter your life,
for the sake of the money.

Money is a talisman.
Do they have no money?

Money= Blasphemy

Maybe oil=money=gift from God

 

[blackout]

Then they should trade directly in oil.

Money is a talisman.
It is a form of magick.

 

[blackout]

latest news;


Lebanese "sorcerer" not facing imminent execution: envoy




Lebanon's ambassador to Riyadh said Thursday that he had not been informed by the Saudi authorities of the imminent execution of a Lebanese man found guilty of sorcery, as his lawyer has warned.

Lebanese "sorcerer" not facing imminent execution: envoy

Don't have time right now to read the link,
but I'm glad to hear it.

 

[kai]

Don't have time right now to read the link,
but I'm glad to hear it.

well it does have magical powers in that it can get you near enough anything you want.

 

[Gharib]

Oh i think their consistant , you must devote your heart to Allah,you should seek no other help, no other guidance, no other assistance in any form or fashion other than Allah for the organization or altering of your life for any reason.

that is incorrect. we are allowed to go to the doctor for help, but relying on Allah that the cure we take will cure us if he wills. it's like that cause and effect example. Allah will cure us, one must have no doubt, if it is not his time to die. but we take a pill and through that Allah cures us, the pill in this case is just the reason/justification for our cure.

see the following hadith:

unfortunately i can't find the hadith but this is what it says.
a man became ill (had stomach pain) so the prophet told him to go and eat the leaves of a particular grass but remembering and having no doubt that the cure comes from Allah and not the leaves themself. he obeyed and became well after eating the leaves. then he got sick again and he rushed to eat some leaves again but this time relying on the grass for the cure and not Allah so the leaves didn't work like last time. he goes to the prophet and tells him of it, so the prophet says that when it happened the first time he relied on Allah, when it happened for the second time he relied on the leaves thus the leaves do not cure anyone unless Allah will it.

(that is not the exact hadith, i may have added words and taken out words that are mentioned in the correct version that is just to explain my point)

 

[kai]

that is incorrect. we are allowed to go to the doctor for help, but relying on Allah that the cure we take will cure us if he wills. it's like that cause and effect example. Allah will cure us, one must have no doubt, if it is not his time to die. but we take a pill and through that Allah cures us, the pill in this case is just the reason/justification for our cure.

see the following hadith:

unfortunately i can't find the hadith but this is what it says.
a man became ill (had stomach pain) so the prophet told him to go and eat the leaves of a particular grass but remembering and having no doubt that the cure comes from Allah and not the leaves themself. he obeyed and became well after eating the leaves. then he got sick again and he rushed to eat some leaves again but this time relying on the grass for the cure and not Allah so the leaves didn't work like last time. he goes to the prophet and tells him of it, so the prophet says that when it happened the first time he relied on Allah, when it happened for the second time he relied on the leaves thus the leaves do not cure anyone unless Allah will it.

(that is not the exact hadith, i may have added words and taken out words that are mentioned in the correct version that is just to explain my point)

#

Just so, although i was speaking in relationship to sorcery

 

[Gharib]

#

Just so, although i was speaking in relationship to sorcery

my bad, i didn't read through the whole discussin you had with ultraviolet.

you can go here to read some more about what you were talking then.

Ruling on seeking the help of the jinn

 

[England my lionheart]

my bad, i didn't read through the whole discussin you had with ultraviolet.

you can go here to read some more about what you were talking then.

Ruling on seeking the help of the jinn

Thats interesting Esalam,the thing is there is no evidence of Jinn ,so someone seeking help from them is a no go because they don't exist.

 

[Gharib]

Amazing, so basically this is a crime which by definition cannot be proved or disproved by evidence.
How do you know someone is guilty if the only connection between the actual crime, and the accused perpetrator, are unprovable, invisible, supernatural influences?
The accused could be at home, fast asleep, miles away, at the time of the crime and still be convicted -- how? What if he's innocent, how would you know?

have you heard the phrase "fight fire with fire"?

i didn't know the islamic ruling on only communicating with the jinn earlier but now i found out

Islam Question and Answer - Is it possible to talk to the jinn and use them?

the link says: "It is possible to talk to the jinn, but finding about unseen matters and what is in people’s hearts is haraam."
............
"It is OK to speak with the jinn if this happens without you seeking it, and in fact it is mustahabb to call them to the religion of Allaah and to adhere to His sharee’ah, just as you call people."

having said that, i do not know if using one jinn to get information from another jinn of someone else about the person they are watching over is permissible or not.

but the point is, if permissible, scholars or people who have contact with the jinn are able to find out if a particular person can communicate with jinn and tell them to do things that are not permissible in islam. does that sort of make sense?

you don't accept the existence of jinn anyway but i'm just giving explanations to you about how it could work if it does work that way.

read this link too if you want to:
http://islam.worldofislam.info/inde...king-the-help-of-the-jinn&catid=130&Itemid=44

 

[Gharib]

Thats interesting Esalam,the thing is there is no evidence of Jinn ,so someone seeking help from them is a no go because they don't exist.

if there is no evidence of their existence how did you come to this conclusion? you can't find them therefore they don't exist?

 

[England my lionheart]

if there is no evidence of their existence how did you come to this conclusion? you can't find them therefore they don't exist?

OK what evidence of Jinn is there,as far as i've looked there is no credible evidence of Jinn or Spirits or the supernatural.

 

[Gharib]

OK what evidence of Jinn is there,as far as i've looked there is no credible evidence of Jinn or Spirits or the supernatural.

where have you looked, at atheisitc writtings, under a rock maybe?

it is not about looking, i have never seen a devil i believe they exist. you don't need to see me in order to believe i exist, my work/powers of writing here suggest i exist, don't you agree?

i could give you islamic writtings too, but the fact is you are a disbeliever. hint hint .

read:
2:1 Alif. Lam. Mim.
2:2 THIS DIVINE WRIT - let there be no doubt about it is [meant to be] a guidance for all the God-conscious.
2:3 Who believe in [the existence of] that which is beyond the reach of human perception, and are constant in prayer, and spend on others out of what We provide for them as sustenance;
2:4 And who believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon thee, [O Prophet,] as well as in that which was bestowed before thy time: for it is they who in their innermost are certain of the life to come!

make sense?

 

[kai]

my bad, i didn't read through the whole discussin you had with ultraviolet.

you can go here to read some more about what you were talking then.

Ruling on seeking the help of the jinn

thanks for the link very interesting

 

[England my lionheart]

where have you looked, at atheisitc writtings, under a rock maybe?

it is not about looking, i have never seen a devil i believe they exist. you don't need to see me in order to believe i exist, my work/powers of writing here suggest i exist, don't you agree?

i could give you islamic writtings too, but the fact is you are a disbeliever. hint hint .

read:
2:1 Alif. Lam. Mim.
2:2 THIS DIVINE WRIT - let there be no doubt about it is [meant to be] a guidance for all the God-conscious.
2:3 Who believe in [the existence of] that which is beyond the reach of human perception, and are constant in prayer, and spend on others out of what We provide for them as sustenance;
2:4 And who believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon thee, [O Prophet,] as well as in that which was bestowed before thy time: for it is they who in their innermost are certain of the life to come!

make sense?

Not really,if a Man is to be put to death for communicating with Jinns that there is no credible evidence of would seem rather disturbing to me especially when no solid evidence could be presented.

 

[Gharib]

Not really,if a Man is to be put to death for communicating with Jinns that there is no credible evidence of would seem rather disturbing to me especially when no solid evidence could be presented.

please read post #793

it is permissible to communicate with the jinn as the link explains, but one is not permitted to use it to do haram things.

 

[England my lionheart]

please read post #793

it is permissible to communicate with the jinn as the link explains, but one is not permitted to use it to do haram things.

OK i understand that part,so if a Man communicates with supposed Jinns and his intent was to do Haram things then at worst he could only be tried for intent as their would be no evidence of the communication,like one half of a telephone conversation.