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Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

kai

kai

ragamuffin
TashaN said:
Excuse me? What evidence? :confused: I don't remember that i ever promised to bring any evidence. Can you please show me in which post did i say that?

He is a Sorcerer and got caught at the delivery time on a set up made by the religious police. He confessed that he came to Saudi Arabia for that purpose and that's end of the story.

You make it sound as if i was trying to deceive people or something. I gave people a link to some tools being used in this type of magic but i never claimed it belonged to Sibat. You know, i disagreed with you on many things in the past but we had good discussions because you were discussing in a respectful manner, but not recently.

We don't have police reports. So, maybe you have a better idea on how to verify your doubts? Speculations on this matter won't be useful because it's baseless.

For instance, in the US, people still have faith in the government and its decisions although the whole world know what happened in Gitmo.

Now you are coming to me saying that Saudi Arabia use torture, and that's why ALL her decisions are false and shouldnt be trusted! Yeah, we can only trust the barbarians who have thrown children in Gitmo without trial and still keeping them there even after electing Obama, not to mention the prisoners who been killed in Gitmo then claiming afterward that it was a suicide, ********.
Click to expand...


Tashan what evidence are you refering to when mentioning his activities in SA?
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
TashaN said:
Evidence again! :facepalm:
Click to expand...



yes I am sorry but Thats what we in the west base our criminal justice system on evidence,what are you referencing when talking about his activities in SA,? YOu say he knew the rules when he went there but nothing i have read have mentioned any activity in SA. Can you give me a source at all.
 
TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
kai said:
yes I am sorry but Thats what we in the west base our criminal justice system on evidence,what are you referencing when talking about his activities in SA,? YOu say he knew the rules when he went there but nothing i have read have mentioned any activity in SA. Can you give me a source at all.
Click to expand...

All the links i have which talked about Sibt case is in Arabic. You can translate it on your own way?

ÃÓÑÉ ÇáÓÇÍÑ ÇááÈäÇäí Úáì ÓÈØ ÊäÇÔÏ ÎÇÏã ÇáÍÑãíä ÇáÚÝæ Úäå æÚÏã ÅÚÏÇãå æãÝÊí áÈäÇä íÏÇÝÚ Úäå ! - ãßÊÈÉ ÇáÃÎÈÇÑ - ÕÍíÝÉ ÎÈÑ ÇáÅáßÊÑæäíÉ - powered by Infinity

I can't translate the whole thing but to make it short, they mentioned that when he got caught at that set up, they found with him some tools which is well known to be used by those who do black magic, and i gave some examples of these things in a link which had some pictures about weird written stuff in papers, bones, animal's skin, etc. These writings can instantly be identified as a work of black magic once i see it, but the specialists can confirm if it was the real deal or not. Also, it was clear that what he was doing on tv was black magic, so they didn't have a doubt about it, not to mention his confession. That's all what i know about this case for now.

You would be surprised to know that this type of magic is pretty common in the Middle East, and the tools being used to perform this work are obvious to those who live in the middle east. I really don't know how to explain these tools, because Westerners have no idea of what these things are and how it works. So, is there a way to help you understand this issue in a better way, kai? or i should just leave it at that?
 
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Gharib

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Mr Spinkles said:
Amazing, so basically this is a crime which by definition cannot be proved or disproved by evidence. This reminds me of the anthropologist's observations of witchcraft belief in African tribes, which I cited earlier:
"Witches are active at night and cannot be seen or discovered by ordinary means. Everything connected with witchcraft takes place in a fantasy realm which is, almost ex hypothesi, intangible and beyond empirical verification. This is shown most clearly in the tenet that it is only the "shadow-souls" of witches which roam about and attack victims, while their bodies remain asleep at home, thus deceiving any ordinary attempts at proving, or disproving, these mystic activities." - Nadel, 1952.
​
How do you know someone is guilty if the only connection between the actual crime, and the accused perpetrator, are unprovable, invisible, supernatural influences? The accused could be at home, fast asleep, miles away, at the time of the crime and still be convicted -- how? What if he's innocent, how would you know?
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this is a good post, good questions.

give me some time and i will answer this. i just need to find out something.
 
Mr Spinkles

Mr Spinkles

Mr
TashaN said:
Excuse me? What evidence? :confused: I don't remember that i ever promised to bring any evidence. Can you please show me in which post did i say that?

He is a Sorcerer and got caught at the delivery time on a set up made by the religious police. He confessed that he came to Saudi Arabia for that purpose and that's end of the story.

You make it sound as if i was trying to deceive people or something. I gave people a link to some tools being used in this type of magic but i never claimed it belonged to Sibat. You know, i disagreed with you on many things in the past but we had good discussions because you were discussing in a respectful manner, but not recently
Click to expand...
Whoah, no need to get so excited. I said I thought you were going to show some evidence, I was mistaken. Sorry. :eek: You said the following and I got the wrong impression: When they searched his room at the hotel they found the things he use to practice that type of sorcery. (post #458) I got the details now. (post #500) For those who want to see some of the tools those people use to damage relations, poison others, and many other things can look at the pic in this link below. (post #502).

All I'm asking is, what were the supposed magical tools in Mr. Sibat's possession? You posted a link that showed typical sorcerer's tools. They seem like ordinary objects to me, they include:

  • papers with writing and charts on them;
  • rope;
  • a belt with gold writing on it;
  • tin foil with some writing or designs on it;
  • black-and-white images of Jesus (I assume) on the cross;
  • a Marlboro baseball cap and cigarettes;
  • plastic water bottles, scotch and cologne;
  • jewelry, including crosses;
  • candles shaped like the Hebrew star of David;
  • a shirt with a heart that says "I gave mine to Jesus";
  • "Juicy" shirts like the kind some teenage girls wear;
  • one "I heart Jesus" baseball cap;
  • Valentine's Day gifts;
  • a novelty pen holder, with what appears to be the Kaba inside;
  • what appears to be an ordinary spoon;
And, my favorite:

  • Pikachu!
1243964_l.jpg


ÇáÓÍÑ æÇáÔÚæÐÉ Ýí ãäØÞÉ ÍÇÆá ãÚ ÇáÔíÎ ÚÈÏÇááå ÇáÚíÏ ÇáÑÔíÏÇä...ÊÛØíÉ ãÕæÑÉ - äÇÏí ãÍÈí ÇáÓÝøÑ Åáì ÓæÑíÇ

All I'm asking is what were the possessions found with Mr. Sibat and how does this implicate him with sorcery. It seems nobody knows.

Tashan said:
We don't have police reports. So, maybe you have a better idea on how to verify your doubts? Speculations on this matter won't be useful because it's baseless.
Click to expand...
I cannot verify my doubts. All I can say is the facts: Sibat did not do anything illegal in Lebanon. He was not caught actually harming someone, but accepting money and in possession of certain "sorcerer's tools" but no one seems to know what those tools were. Amnesty says he was convicted by secret trial without a lawyer and he was told he would be sent home if he confessed. Magic and witchcraft, from a scientific point of view, are superstitions with no basis in objective reality. I don't know when the confession was videotaped, but Sibat was arrested over 2 years ago, since that time Sibat's wife and lawyer in Lebanon say they have not been able to communicate with him, and Saudi authorities sometimes use torture to extract videotaped confessions. This has been documented by Amensty, Human Rights Watch, and journalists, for example: 'Torture' Britons lose bid to sue Saudis - Crime, UK - The Independent

I think it's fair to say those are the facts of the case, unless someone has more to add.

Tashan said:
For instance, in the US, people still have faith in the government and its decisions although the whole world know what happened in Gitmo.

Now you are coming to me saying that Saudi Arabia use torture, and that's why ALL her decisions are false and shouldnt be trusted! Yeah, we can only trust the barbarians who have thrown children in Gitmo without trial and still keeping them there even after electing Obama, not to mention the prisoners who been killed in Gitmo then claiming afterward that it was a suicide, ********.
Click to expand...
Let's not play the mutually-defeating game of "your-country-is-even-worse-than-my-country". You're better than that, Tashan. As you know, I am appalled by the legal abuses of Gitmo and you even gave me frubals for an OP I wrote, saying how deceptive and foolish U.S. leaders have been, and saying that they should stand trial for torture. (It was a damn good article, too, if I do say so myself. ;) ) This thread is about the case of Mr. Sibat in Saudi Arabia. I understand it if you feel defensive, because some people like to use cases like these as part of a pathetic attempt to assert their own superiority. I don't want any part of that game.

To be clear: I do not think all decisions of the Saudi government are false. I strongly suspect this particular decision is false, and it will cost someone's life. I'm interested if anyone has further details about any facts that can be established. That's what this is about my friend. :)
 
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TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Mr Spinkles said:
This was enlightening, a video from the Saudi government's General Presidency of the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice on the subject of sorcerers and their methods, with English subtitles:
[youtube]cNxakf8Hi-I[/youtube]
YouTube - Sorcerer's plot part 1/5 english sub
Click to expand...

Thanks for finding this one with English subtitle. I'm relieved that i won't have to explain all that now because all your questions will be answered through the 5-parts videos of this program.
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
TashaN said:
All the links i have which talked about Sibt case is in Arabic. You can translate it on your own way?

ÃÓÑÉ ÇáÓÇÍÑ ÇááÈäÇäí Úáì ÓÈØ ÊäÇÔÏ ÎÇÏã ÇáÍÑãíä ÇáÚÝæ Úäå æÚÏã ÅÚÏÇãå æãÝÊí áÈäÇä íÏÇÝÚ Úäå ! - ãßÊÈÉ ÇáÃÎÈÇÑ - ÕÍíÝÉ ÎÈÑ ÇáÅáßÊÑæäíÉ - powered by Infinity

I can't translate the whole thing but to make it short, they mentioned that when he got caught at that set up, they found with him some tools which is well known to be used by those who do black magic, and i gave some examples of these things in a link which had some pictures about weird written stuff in papers, bones, animal's skin, etc. These writings can instantly be identified as a work of black magic once i see it, but the specialists can confirm if it was the real deal or not. Also, it was clear that what he was doing on tv was black magic, so they didn't have a doubt about it, not to mention his confession. That's all what i know about this case for now.

You would be surprised to know that this type of magic is pretty common in the Middle East, and the tools being used to perform this work are obvious to those who live in the middle east. I really don't know how to explain these tools, because Westerners have no idea of what these things are and how it works. So, is there a way to help you understand this issue in a better way, kai? or i should just leave it at that?
Click to expand...

Thats OK i am really puzzled as to why no mention of the "sorcery" in Saudi is mention even in the Amesty reports. I am aware that this kind of thing goes on in the middle east. Thanks for your attempt to help me understand something that i can never understand LOL
 
blackout

blackout

Violet.
What if someone is using their Sorcery just to "get stuff" for themself?

and not to actually harm or hurt anyone?
 
blackout

blackout

Violet.
This one....

eselam said:
to control a devil and make it do things one doesn't need a witches hat, a flying broom nor a magic wand. to control a devil one just needs to remember a few things ("spells") and thats about it.

it wasn't him that was doing the magic, it is the devil obeying his commands. obvioulsy devils are unseen to the human eye, unless they want to be seen. he doesn't have any magical powers, appart from those 'spels' to control the devil.
Click to expand...

UltraViolet said:



People with money should be beheaded as well.

Money both raises, and controls many Devils.

Devils often hide behind the power of their money,
and their master's money.

And of course the "master" "Spells out"
what his little minion Devils will do.

(all without a witches hat, a broom, or a wand)
Click to expand...
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
OK! i dont want anyone beheaded though! and you may not like this but i dont even beleive in sorcery (but i dont mind people having a go)
 
blackout

blackout

Violet.
kai said:
OK! i dont want anyone beheaded though! and you may not like this but i dont even beleive in sorcery (but i dont mind people having a go)
Click to expand...

My questions have nothing at all to do with belief,
but consistancy.

I'm giving the existence of "Djinns" a "free pass"
for the sake of this thread.
(provability of the Djinn doesn't seem to count as a valid concern,
and it can't be done.)

 
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kai

kai

ragamuffin
UltraViolet said:
I just want to know if having an advantage in attaining "stuff" gets you beheaded across the board.

And why one scenario would be any different from any other in this matter.
Click to expand...


Because its a blanket ban, no magic, I think Islam considers magic to be an act of blasphemy.
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
UltraViolet said:
My questions have nothing at all to do with belief,
but consistancy.

I'm giving the existence of "Djinns" a "free pass"
for the sake of this thread.
Click to expand...

Oh i think their consistant , you must devote your heart to Allah,you should seek no other help, no other guidance, no other assistance in any form or fashion other than Allah for the organization or altering of your life for any reason.
 
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