Man to Man... or Woman

[Rival]

The idea that someone is born the wrong gender has no scientific basis.

That is an ideological opinion disguised as scientific fact.

You are acting no different than a religious zealot.

I posted this, which I guess you never read:

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to findings to be presented in Barcelona, at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting, ECE 2018. These findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

[..]
Dr Bakker says, "Although more research is needed, we now have evidence that sexual differentiation of the brain differs in young people with GD, as they show functional brain characteristics that are typical of their desired gender."

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So only you can make jokes. And share opinions. And ride on buses.

I'd be a terrible bully considering that I only talk to you when you talk to me.

No one is forcing you to talk to me - you know?

You've been mentioning me in almost every post of yours for the last two pages or so, when I'm not talking to you. Quit it. You look creepy as hell. And that dick talk wasn't a joke. You're obviously just trying to invalidate who I am.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I know that "gender" is a phony word that gained popularity in the 50's to create a false distinction between one's identity and biological sex.

It took me awhile to get used to the word too since I'm not transgender. We (people in general) do have environmental, religious, and cultural biases with people who are the minority. Best we can do is learn from the differences so we wont see people in a negative light no matter how much we-and I mean we-try to justify it as "but I'm not being mean to 'the person'" type of thing.

If (play along since I'm making a point) I extracted all of the external parts that make you visibly a male or female, what about "you" can you determine that you're still who you are despite how you look and have?

Who are you as a male or female that your "identity" is not defined by whether you have a penis or vagina?

Also - where did I say that anyone had "magically and physically turned into someone of the opposite gender"?

What I am saying is that Saint Frankenstein does not have a penis.

I said that not you.

I'm sure Saint and other transgender know they still have their biological organs and chromosomes that make them male or female by their "biological sex."

The issue is about the gender not what's between their legs. You'd have to understand (or be willing to take interest) what gender is first to get it.

You said the exact same thing when you said, "They still have the organs etc of their biological gender."

...biological sex I meant not gender. Sex is the external. Gender is internal/identity. I wish I could find it. Saint did a great explanation on what gender is in relation to chromosomes etc. Years ago though.

It was Saint Frankenstein that tried to claim - falsely - that having a beard was evidence of being male.

I can't speak for saint, but think of it this way. In general men grow beards as they age and into puberty, and women do not. It's a male trait due to biology of the human body. Later in life women grow hair on their chin and over their lips but its not part of their genetic make up. So, one can say beard is evidence for male.

I simply offered a more accurate comparison.

I do not believe that Saint Frankenstein is a man.

I don't care how people want to live their lives - just don't try to make me swallow your personal beliefs.

@Saint Frankenstein is biologically a female (sex, organs, chromosomes etc) and by gender-His Identity is male. We are defined by our identities not by our sex. So, he Is a male.

....but if you want to understand it to form a sound opinion, you have to take some interest in it rather than judge it outright as wrong. It's better to have a difference of opinion on things you know than what you don't.

Start with gender (your identity as male or female) and branch from there.

I mean, it confuses me too but I know as a woman I'm not defined by my sex. I'm sure you're not defined by your genitals either?

 

[Left Coast]

The idea that someone is born the wrong gender has no scientific basis.

That is an ideological opinion disguised as scientific fact.

You are acting no different than a religious zealot.

You appear uninformed on the science here.

See, for example:

Transgender Brains More Like Their Desired Gender From Early Age

What has sex got to do with it? The role of hormones in the transgender brain | Neuropsychopharmacology

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is no need to ask anyone anything.

Saint Frankenstein offered a physical comparison as evidence of biological sex - I just offered a better one.

So, through cancer, accident or whatever and a man loses his penis, then by this standard because he cannot demonstrate he has one he is no longer a man.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@Saint Frankenstein is biologically a female (sex, organs, chromosomes etc) and by gender-His Identity is male. We are defined by our identities not by our sex. So, he Is a male.

I'm not totally biologically female since I've been on testosterone for over 6 years and that effects every system of the body. I consider myself a male.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So, through cancer, accident or whatever and a man loses his penis, then by this standard because he cannot demonstrate he has one he is no longer a man.

Which is why defining sex by genitals alone is stupid.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not totally biologically female since I've been on testosterone for over 6 years and that effects every system of the body. I consider myself a male.

Myself, I basically can't perform as a male anymore. My face has rounded out a good deal, my body hair is very thin, my muscles shrank and my shoulders are much smaller, I have breasts, and even in very masculine situations--such as working on ny car--many people see me as female. Anymore, "being male" is because I'm still getting rid of my beard (though 2 or 3 more sessions and the electrolysist is optimistic my hair will be thinned out and removed enough to have no more shaving irritation and no more shadow, then a shift to mostly full time, and then probably working out how to do full time while finishing the beard off).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Myself, I basically can't perform as a male anymore. My face has rounded out a good deal, my body hair is very thin, my muscles shrank and my shoulders are much smaller, I have breasts, and even in very masculine situations--such as working on ny car--many people see me as female. Anymore, "being male" is because I'm still getting rid of my beard (though 2 or 3 more sessions and the electrolysist is optimistic my hair will be thinned out and removed enough to have no more shaving irritation and no more shadow, then a shift to mostly full time, and then probably working out how to do full time while finishing the beard off).

Same, but on the flip side. Lol. My face became more angular, I sweat a ton and have a strong male odor, I have a full beard, hairy back, chest, stomach and thighs, my hairline receded a lot (which is fine because I had been shaving my hair for years before hormone therapy), voice dropped (I'm probably a baritone now), much greater endurance, lots of genital changes, etc.

I never could perform as a female, though. I couldn't even pretend at that. Lol.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I know that "gender" is a phony word that gained popularity in the 50's to create a false distinction between one's identity and biological sex.

Also - where did I say that anyone had "magically and physically turned into someone of the opposite gender"?

What I am saying is that Saint Frankenstein does not have a penis.

You said the exact same thing when you said, "They still have the organs etc of their biological gender."

It was Saint Frankenstein that tried to claim - falsely - that having a beard was evidence of being male.

I simply offered a more accurate comparison.

I do not believe that Saint Frankenstein is a man.

I don't care how people want to live their lives - just don't try to make me swallow your personal beliefs.

Can we break this down a bit.

If you are married, did your husband or wife marry you because of your genitals or was there an inner connection that he or she knew who you were without taking off your clothes?

(Trying to make it a bit more personal so you get my point. Trying to prove others wrong would mean you'd have to know them in order to make a sound disagreement. Since you know yourself more, what defines you as male or female?)

It's not an easy question but I know many nontrangender can probably answer it if they think about it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Same, but on the flip side. Lol. My face became more angular, I sweat a ton and have a strong male odor, I have a full beard, hairy back, chest, stomach and thighs, my hairline receded a lot (which is fine because I had been shaving my hair for years before hormone therapy), voice dropped (I'm probably a baritone now), much greater endurance, lots of genital changes, etc.

I never could perform as a female, though. I couldn't even pretend at that. Lol.

I forgot when I noticed my own scents changing. And my hairline is has been regrowing. As awesome as that is, I'm starying to have "mini Cobain mob hair" in the front with my hair starting to dangle into my eyes. And for about half my life now Ive avoided cutting my hair in anyway that would have me goi g through that again, lmao.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, and I never had an Adam's apple (a couple doctors here made the comment I had a very good surgery done and a couple more asked if I did), amd my hands and feet are small for a someone my size and born male. Ive also been told my hips are kind of wide for a male (every now and then I'm reminded to uncross my legs when my blood pressure is taken).

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

I posted this, which I guess you never read:

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to findings to be presented in Barcelona, at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting, ECE 2018. These findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

[..]
Dr Bakker says, "Although more research is needed, we now have evidence that sexual differentiation of the brain differs in young people with GD, as they show functional brain characteristics that are typical of their desired gender."

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

Even if this were legitimate - what do you believe it proves?

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

You've been mentioning me in almost every post of yours for the last two pages or so, when I'm not talking to you. Quit it. You look creepy as hell. And that dick talk wasn't a joke. You're obviously just trying to invalidate who I am.

I have wanted to be done talking to and about you since Post #512.

But you kept talking - so after I made my hilarious joke I tried again to end the discussion in Post #543 - but Shadow Wolf kept responding to me and talking about your junk.

I mean - you can follow the threads yourself and find the culprit - but I know you'd never turn against your comrade.

I didn't joke about offering to "whip them out" to "invalidate" you - but instead to validate my own claims.

It's too bad that you believe that who and what you are conflict with my core beliefs about our identity as God's spirit children - but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I think you're just mad that my joke was better and more relevant than yours.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

You appear uninformed on the science here.

See, for example:

Transgender Brains More Like Their Desired Gender From Early Age

What has sex got to do with it? The role of hormones in the transgender brain | Neuropsychopharmacology

Yeah - you're going to have to quote from these sources.

I'm not about to dig through them and do your job for you.

Would you like it if I claimed "The Book of John" as evidence in support of my argument?

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

So, through cancer, accident or whatever and a man loses his penis, then by this standard because he cannot demonstrate he has one he is no longer a man.

I never said that.

However - Saint Frankenstein was trying to pass off a beard as evidence of being a male.

Does that mean if we were to shave it off Saint Frankenstein would have no claim to being a male?

Saint Frankenstein was the one arguing that a singular physical feature could determine gender or sex.

I basically used the beard joke against Saint Frankenstein and offered a better joke to boot.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Which is why defining sex by genitals alone is stupid.

No one did that.

You - however - did offer up a beard as evidence of your sex.

And many others on this site have been trying to argue that certain "brain activity" - alone - defines a person's gender.

We should look at the totality of the person.

**mod edit**

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I never said that.

However - Saint Frankenstein was trying to pass off a beard as evidence of being a male.

Does that mean if we were to shave it off Saint Frankenstein would have no claim to being a male?

Saint Frankenstein was the one arguing that a singular physical feature could determine gender or sex.

I basically used the beard joke against Saint Frankenstein and offered a better joke to boot.

You said he doesn't have a penis thus he's not a man.
Thus it follows a man who had to have a full penectomy for cancer, by that standard, is not a kan because he doesn't have a penis. This person too can show you a beard, but not a penis. By your standard that you applied to Frank this hypothetical man is not a man according to you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Even if this were legitimate - what do you believe it proves?

By that standard I'll just denounce everything you post as illegitimate. Seem fair? Does that arrangement seem equitable enough we can just assume youll be acquiescent and just move on when I upfront reject the Bible and anti-trans sources as invalid?

 

[night912]

No - I am not saying that attempting to transition is sinful or evil.

It is possible to offend God without committing sin or being evil.

Your ignorance has led you to a false conclusion and a misrepresentation of what I said.

So, you just clarified that you are saying that it's sinful or evil. Apparently, I'm not as ignorant as you, but my ignorance is irrelevant anyway. My conclusion is based on what you said.

Not only do I believe that any such attempt would be offensive to God - but it would also cause undue suffering to the individual who makes the attempt.

If you believe that I have misrepresented what you said, then it is due to your ignorance of what "sin" is, that have made you to not see and/or understand what you said about the act and not believe it to be sinful.