Man to Man... or Woman

[JesusKnowsYou]

Truth is, if he's had bottom surgery he has a penis.

Nope.

A mutilated clitoris or implant does not a penis make.

Saint Frankenstein will never know what it is like to have a penis.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Basically - Saint Frankenstein wants to criminalize certain speech.

That it is an illogical conclusion that does not follow--or even originate from--the premises of the debate.

You are just a wannabe dictator who masquerades as a victim of imagined slights.

Im deeper into Libertarian territory than the forums residential Libertarian. Try again.

If all you have had to deal with is people sharing their opinion on a religious forum website - then you have had literally zero problems.

We weren't using online forums then, and this was years before social media.
I had to deal with people who had your mentality, thoughts, and attitudes, and it was taught from the top. It ensured that one area of traditional comfort for those deeply hurting would only add to my pains. To traumatizing ends, even, to be like me and be taught god is basically as you believe. It left me in "that group of ex Christians" who now wants nothing more to do with religion as a whole because Christianity was that bad for us.

 

[Rival]

Nope.

A mutilated clitoris or implant does not a penis make.

Saint Frankenstein will never know what it is like to have a penis.

All you're attempting to do on this thread is invalidate transgender people's identities. People kill themselves because of attitudes like this.

None of the anti-trans people on this thread have given me a reasonable, non-religious answer as to why they have such a negative attitude towards trans people. I don't expect to see one either.

 

[Revoltingest]

The simplicity is too black and white. It's literally no different than a Christian dismissing another Christian as no true Christian would do x, y, or z.

No different, eh.
I'll pass on defending the straw man you're creating.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Would you believe I just had to sit, and write this over. computer giving trouble.

That's messed up.

What you are describing here are the results of breaking the law.

In other words, it's like you walking into a room, after the law has been broken, and seeing the results of it.

I don't understand...

How can random events, subject to chance happenings, produce fixed and unchanging laws that must be followed? I don't know how. Do you?

They seem fixed because human beings are wired to see patterns and build habits etc in order to survive.

How did you connect it to a giver, though?

Prayer is not to be viewed or used as a "cure-for-all". Some people have the wrong view, or understanding, when mention is made of God. When they hear "God", the first thing that comes to mind, is prayer, and when they think of prayer, they think of requests made to God to fulfill any wish they have, and expect that some magical event will occur - KAZAM Problem solved.

I have always known prayer as a conversation to god. While I don't know everyone's prayers, it would make sense if someone was dealing with a problem they'd ask god for some sort of help just as a child ask his parent for help. I'm sure it's a mixture of conversation and asking for help from one's creator.

If a parent sees their child (rather than 'its' child ) saying that she is not a female but a male inside, how would you address that without (hopefully?) telling that child he or she may be misguided about his body and mind?

While there are many things we can't understand, when we do we address our biases about things we don't understand for the wellbeing of those we care about?

Here's a video about this. Take your time.

"At an age when he was just preparing to sign up for Medicare, and was contemplating when to take Social Security, Skip Pardee and his wife Veronica were confronted with a situation that potentially could have ripped their close knit family apart. This talk is about what happened, how they handled it, and the lessons Skip and Veronica have learned from it.

"A native of Detroit, Michigan, Skip graduated from the United States Air Force Academy in 1968. For the next eight years he served as an Air Force pilot. He flew 370 combat missions in the Vietnam war. Skip is currently in his 33rd year as a chiropractor in Minden, Nevada"

This may be how prayer is viewed by many religious, or non-religious people, but this is not the correct view of prayer, or worship, as described by worshippers in the Bible, and those who follow that way.

Probably, yes. Many former christian non-religious see prayer as beseeching. Not all religions see prayer like that if not at all.

However, prayer is not used as a means of removing problems from our live, as we know problems will increase in the world, and we have to cope with them. We don't have to do so on our own, but if we choose to... God can and will, and does help us to cope with life's problems, until the new day arrives.
Will we see that day? Much depends on us, according to the Bible.

But you got to admit that if parents see their child going through something they personally believe is wrong or an illnesses, they'd have some beseeching god in the manner of help?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It was Saint Frankenstein that offered to make physical comparisons.

And I know that Saint Frankenstein does not have a penis because Saint Frankenstein was born a biological female.

I don't care how Saint Frankenstein decides to live - but don't offer shallow comparisons in a vain attempt to prove that a person can actually transition.

JesusKnows. When someone says they 100% transitioned, they don't mean they magically and physically turned into someone of the opposite gender. They still have the organs etc of their biological gender. They're saying that changing their physical body (i.e. sex) to match their gender (their identity as male or female) in which they already are.

Do you know what gender is?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No doubt - I would have most likely said something too.

However - Saint Frankenstein claimed that everyone on that bus had become "victims" and that the man should have been removed from the public transit.

Saint Frankenstein also claimed that you were a "victim" because of what I had said - so what do you think Saint Frankenstein would want to happen to me?

Considering Saint Frankenstein's views about the man on the bus - my removal from the forum - or at least my ability to share my opinion would be taken away.

Basically - Saint Frankenstein wants to criminalize certain speech.

No - it is not.

That would be like me claiming that an atheist's opinion about God impeded my ability to worship.

It doesn't. Plain and simple.

You are just a wannabe dictator who masquerades as a victim of imagined slights.
If all you have had to deal with is people sharing their opinion on a religious forum website - then you have had literally zero problems.

Because that is all that I have done.

No one is forcing you to read my posts.

No one is forcing you to participate in this forum.

If you don't like what you are reading - stop reading - and go cry.

There is no place for that here.

You sure do love to run your mouth about me. And you really don't know anything about my genitals so stop thinking about it. Also, get a sense of humor.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

All you're attempting to do on this thread is invalidate transgender people's identities. People kill themselves because of attitudes like this.

None of the anti-trans people on this thread have given me a reasonable, non-religious answer as to why they have such a negative attitude towards trans people. I don't expect to see one either.

He's also insulting cis men who have lost their penis through illness or injury, and had to have a phalloplasty to replace what was lost. That's originally why phalloplasty was created. So he's insulting combat vets in his rush to bash trans people.

 

[Revoltingest]

Im deeper into Libertarian territory than the forums residential Libertarian. Try again.

Hah!
Compared to me, you're a raging statist.

 

[SomeRandom]

I was aiming more at cause than a remedy.
As Wiki said....
"Any system in the body controlled by hormones can be derailed by hormone disruptors. Specifically, endocrine disruptors may be associated with the development of learning disabilities, severe attention deficit disorder, cognitive and brain development problems;[6][7] deformations of the body (including limbs); breast cancer, prostate cancer, thyroid and other cancers; sexual development problems such as feminizing of males or masculinizing effects on females, etc.[8]"

Reference [8] is..."Pesticide atrazine can turn male frogs into females". Berkeley News. Retrieved 2017-08-08."

Can we not see that all these outcomes mentioned are rampant in the world as never before.

These disruptors also have an economic effect...

"Human exposure may cause some health effects, such as lower IQ and adult obesity. These effects may lead to lost productivity, disability, or premature death in some people. One source estimated that, within the European Union, this economic effect might have about twice the economic impact as the effects caused by mercury and lead contamination.[200]

The socio-economic burden of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDC)-associated health effects for the European Union was estimated based on currently available literature and considering the uncertainties with respect to causality with EDCs and corresponding health-related costs to be in the range of €46 billion to €288 billion per year.[201]"



I think the studies need to be more comprehensive in order to identify all these endocrine disruptors and their effects on the population at large. We have never lived in such a chemically charged environment. Artificial chemicals and hormones are ingested, absorbed and inhaled by the ton all over the world, with little thought as to where it all ends up.....imagine how much of it is then excreted by humans and supercharged chemically polluted sewer water is then pumped into the oceans as outfall.

Pollution is deforming the marine life....so how is it not also affecting human life?

If these endocrine disruptors are everywhere and more people are exposed to them environmentally and in other ways.....isn't it possible that this is why we see a surge in gender dysphoria in our time?

Whilst I do not disagree that we are exposed to more chemicals than previous generations, I would still like to know what the actual scientific studies say about its use in medicine. I mean athletes abuse steroids and that causes all sorts of health issues. And yet we are able to utilise that chemical to successfully treat fungal infections.
You ingest too much Dihydrogen Monoxide and you die, that is blatant scientific fact. But dihydrogen monoxide is just water.
Any chemical can be the devil, it’s all about phrasing to the layman.
We are discussing its use in medicine, yes?
So please enlighten me on what the scientific consensus is regarding its use in medical treatment??

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hah!
Compared to me, you're a raging statist.

Consistently I've been a point or two lower South on the Political Compass.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No different, eh.
I'll pass on defending the straw man you're creating.

I've created no strawman.
I'll remember your conclusion here.

 

[Revoltingest]

Consistently I've been a point or two lower South on the Political Compass.

I'm skeptical of that claim.
But you're so far left on economics that you're
even banned from the libertarian lavatory.
Economic authoritarianism is not libertarian.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've created no strawman.
I'll remember your conclusion here.

Re-read my original post to which you responded.
It was about how simple my orientation made
analysis of sexual transition. You tried to make
it about something else....and without support.
Bad Shadow Wolf! Bad! Bad!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm skeptical of that claim.
But you're so far left on economics that you're
even banned from the libertarian lavatory.
Economic authoritarianism is not libertarian.

It's been shown, with photographic evidence, in the political compass thread.
Amd we've been over things a bunch of times. We're both very South, which is libertarian territory, except for in America where libertarian does have the tie directly to economic issues. That tie doesn't exist elsewhere and libertarian refers to social issues. And we've also covered the Wiki article, where you are very limited in the ability to quote it for your ends as a full reading of the page will show support for my claim.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Re-read my original post to which you responded.
It was about how simple my orientation made
analysis of sexual transition. You tried to make
it about something else....and without support.
Bad Shadow Wolf! Bad! Bad!

No, you said Libertarian atheists dont have a problem with it, implying they are a homogenous and monolithic group. They aren't.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I'll ignore your last question, as I don't see how it relate to me, or anything I said, and so don't understand why you asked such a question.
The person in the video is not the only person alive, so I am failing to see why that has become your focus.
The point is, you don't know who is hurting, or being hurt, so to say that something is okay so long as it is not hurting anyone would be meaningless.
It's like me saying, it's okay to drop the bomb, so long as it's not hurting anyone, and I don't have a clue of who may be hurt, whether in the immediate area; a distant area; the near or far future, etc.
I just need a good excuse for dropping the bomb.

I'll ignore your last question, as I don't see how it relate to me, or anything I said, and so don't understand why you asked such a question.

Then you don't understand my OP that you objected to. I simply said that in a free society anyone should be allowed to make whatever choices they want as long as they aren't harming anyone ELSE. You responded by asking me how do I know who gets hurt when such a choice is made and then YOU posted the video that became my focus as an example of someone getting hurt by such a choiceion.

I responded by saying that the ONLY person who was hurt in the example you gave was the person who made the choice... no one ELSE was hurt. And in a free society people are free to make choices that hurt THEMSELVES... just not anyone else.

Thus your bomb analogy isn't applicable. The pilot of a bomber is dropping bombs on OTHER PEOPLE to harm them. The pilot himself isn't the one getting hurt. IF the pilot chooses to bomb themselves, that's their choice in a free society... as long as they aren't harming ANYONE ELSE.

If you don't want me to focus on the video you provided as an example of people getting hurt by gender choices then give me an example of such a choice harming SOMEONE ELSE.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nope.

A mutilated clitoris or implant does not a penis make.

Saint Frankenstein will never know what it is like to have a penis.

You'll have ask him about that.
It seems odd though, to place such a high emphasis on people's genitals. I dont know about you, but Ive not even seen the genitals of over 99.999999o99% of those Ive interacted with. It's not something I define people by, because thats not something we actually get to do.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's been shown, with photographic evidence, in the political compass thread.
Amd we've been over things a bunch of times. We're both very South, which is libertarian territory, except for in America where libertarian does have the tie directly to economic issues. That tie doesn't exist elsewhere and libertarian refers to social issues. And we've also covered the Wiki article, where you are very limited in the ability to quote it for your ends as a full reading of the page will show support for my claim.

Economic authoritarianism always leads to social authoriarianism,
even if unintended, eg, USSR, PRC, Cuba, N Korea.
But your definition of "libertarian" is at odds with common usage
here, & by both the Canuckistanian Libertarian Party & the US
Libertarian Party. Those are consistent with its origins in the UK.
Caution!
Potentially offensive comment ahead....
To be socially liberal & economically leftish is "liberal".
You just happen to be one of the truly liberal ones...not those
posers...the pro-drug war, pro foreign war, & anti-gay
marriage, anti-free speech types.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You'll have ask him about that.
It seems odd though, to place such a high emphasis on people's genitals. I dont know about you, but Ive not even seen the genitals of over 99.999999o99% of those Ive interacted with. It's not something I define people by, because thats not something we actually get to do.

It is somewhat disturbing to see people just discussing my genitals, like I'm an object.