Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Nah. Just like Libertarian atheist are never anti-lgbt.
We can go over the Wiki article again, but heres not the place.
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Man to Man... or Woman
- Thread starter nPeace
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Somewhat isn't the word I think of.
I actually haven't thought of a word for it. More of an image in my head, because I don't know of a word to adequately describe the anger and disgust over their feeling entitled to so deeply intrude into our private affairs.
That's not what I said in the orig post you responded to.
Post #268....
"Some things are made so simple by being a libertarian atheist.
What someone else does with their body is their business.
They have their reasons, & we should just try to understand."
Don't misrepresent this post as something it's not, ie, about
every other libertarian atheist. It's about how I easily came
to the views I hold. You're ignoring that.
Also I've made many posts about diversity of libertarian
thought, & that when I opine as one, I don't represent all.
You're barking up the wrong straw man.
Stop trying to win an argument....instead, try to understand.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Im not misunderstanding. Im pointing out not all Libertarian Atheists got the memo. You've been trying to deny these sorts even exist.
Unfortunately, I've gotten used to it over the years.
I say it's a dubious & unsupported claim.
But it's a irrelevant "nicht einmal falsch" one.
I cannot argue against it.
Why make a big deal about something that
you (not I) claimed?
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
I know that "gender" is a phony word that gained popularity in the 50's to create a false distinction between one's identity and biological sex.
Also - where did I say that anyone had "magically and physically turned into someone of the opposite gender"?
What I am saying is that Saint Frankenstein does not have a penis.
You said the exact same thing when you said, "They still have the organs etc of their biological gender."
It was Saint Frankenstein that tried to claim - falsely - that having a beard was evidence of being male.
I simply offered a more accurate comparison.
I do not believe that Saint Frankenstein is a man.
I don't care how people want to live their lives - just don't try to make me swallow your personal beliefs.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
We cant afford the luxury of such assumptions.
I can.
But then I've saved up a goodly sum of money.
As a Noahide and as, in my faith, all non-Jews are technically Noahides, cross-dressing is not prohibited.
Regarding Judaism, I came across this on a Conservative website:
[Halakha = Jewish Law]
On a philosophical level, one might argue that other less radical solutions to gender dysphoria must suffice, or that other avenues of healing must be pursued. Many people are unhappy with their bodies — too short, too fat, too tall, too ugly, the wrong complexion, and in this case, the wrong gender. At some point we have to be able to accept ourselves as God made us.
But the notion of accepting our lot in life does not mean that people cannot try to overcome physical and psychological pain or disabilities. Part of "accepting ourselves as God made us" may be treating the way God made our personalities or gender identities as essential qualities, and seeing biology as less essential and thus a variable. The sages historically have understood gender expression as a social construct, but did not envision the development of medical technology to make sex change possible.
As noted, some "elective" surgery is prohibited by Jewish law, particularly when it is life-threatening. Sex reassignment surgery has more implications than a "nose job," but many of the same considerations apply. At the same time, the value of elective surgery (body modification of any sort) in improving quality of life has been recognized, and may be permitted as long as it entails minimal risk. Very little literature exists on risk assessment or quantification in halakha.
[...]
While modern society is most often preoccupied with male/female gender distinctions, halakha recognizes at least four common genders. Simply changing or removing a person’s genital organs does not necessarily change their legal gender status. Because social gender identity is a source of great emotional and economic concern in our day, rabbinic authorities use considerable discretion (in both senses of the word) in deciding an individual case.
Sex Reassignment Surgery and Deuteronomy 23:2 (23:1) | Congregation Beth El–Keser Israel
Regarding Judaism, I came across this on a Conservative website:
[Halakha = Jewish Law]
On a philosophical level, one might argue that other less radical solutions to gender dysphoria must suffice, or that other avenues of healing must be pursued. Many people are unhappy with their bodies — too short, too fat, too tall, too ugly, the wrong complexion, and in this case, the wrong gender. At some point we have to be able to accept ourselves as God made us.
But the notion of accepting our lot in life does not mean that people cannot try to overcome physical and psychological pain or disabilities. Part of "accepting ourselves as God made us" may be treating the way God made our personalities or gender identities as essential qualities, and seeing biology as less essential and thus a variable. The sages historically have understood gender expression as a social construct, but did not envision the development of medical technology to make sex change possible.
As noted, some "elective" surgery is prohibited by Jewish law, particularly when it is life-threatening. Sex reassignment surgery has more implications than a "nose job," but many of the same considerations apply. At the same time, the value of elective surgery (body modification of any sort) in improving quality of life has been recognized, and may be permitted as long as it entails minimal risk. Very little literature exists on risk assessment or quantification in halakha.
[...]
While modern society is most often preoccupied with male/female gender distinctions, halakha recognizes at least four common genders. Simply changing or removing a person’s genital organs does not necessarily change their legal gender status. Because social gender identity is a source of great emotional and economic concern in our day, rabbinic authorities use considerable discretion (in both senses of the word) in deciding an individual case.
Sex Reassignment Surgery and Deuteronomy 23:2 (23:1) | Congregation Beth El–Keser Israel
Please just shut up about me.
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
Then you were not paying attention.
Since you have already admitted that you don't actually read my posts - there is no surprise there.
Ever heard the phrase, "Actions speak louder than words"?
If you agree with Saint Frankenstein (which seems to be the case) - that my speech creates "victims" (effectively making me a criminal) - and that I should not be allowed to share my opinion on a religious forum website - then you are no libertarian.
Then how am I a "reflection" of those people or of what happened to you?
All I am going to do is share my opinion when asked.
If that was all that happened to you - people telling you they don't think a man can become a woman and vice versa when you asked them for their opinion - then nothing happened to you.
You are not a victim.
I shared one opinion. That doesn't mean you know me or know what I am willing to do.
What does that mean?
Because it sounds like you were being hurt by some "traditional comfort" - which has been around for some time - yet you believe that the "problem" is with these "people" or the "traditional comfort" itself and not with you.
That would be like saying you being allergic to water means that there is something wrong with water - not with you.
Water works fine for everyone else - but since it hurts you - it must be bad.
Looks like you are shifting the blame to me.
I doubt that very much.
You don't know what I believe about God, His Nature and Being.
If you claim that you want "nothing more to do with religion" - then why are you participating on a religious forum website?
Could it be that you are not here to engage in civil discourse - but you instead want to shut such discourse down?
No one can share opinions that you disagree with on your watch!
Unfortunately - that violates this forum's stated mission.
Also this from an Orthodox Rabbi,
You can’t tell someone with depression “just cheer up.” (You can, but it wouldn’t be effective.) Similarly, you can’t tell someone struggling with gender dysphoria just to act like what their anatomy says they are. (Again, it won’t help.) It’s easy advice to give when you’re not the one struggling with such issues. They didn’t choose this. They’re not “deviants” or “perverts” or “an abomination.” They’re good people who, for whatever reason, feel the way they do. We can’t control the way others feel and we’re not in a position to judge how others deal with a dilemma we can’t begin to understand. If we wouldn’t judge Dina or Michal for having a “male soul,” we shouldn’t judge our contemporaries who face similar challenges.
Leave the halachic issues for those at that pay grade. All you and I can do – all we should do – is just be a mentsch.
An Orthodox Rabbi Discusses Transgender Issues in Jewish Texts - Jew in the City
You can’t tell someone with depression “just cheer up.” (You can, but it wouldn’t be effective.) Similarly, you can’t tell someone struggling with gender dysphoria just to act like what their anatomy says they are. (Again, it won’t help.) It’s easy advice to give when you’re not the one struggling with such issues. They didn’t choose this. They’re not “deviants” or “perverts” or “an abomination.” They’re good people who, for whatever reason, feel the way they do. We can’t control the way others feel and we’re not in a position to judge how others deal with a dilemma we can’t begin to understand. If we wouldn’t judge Dina or Michal for having a “male soul,” we shouldn’t judge our contemporaries who face similar challenges.
Leave the halachic issues for those at that pay grade. All you and I can do – all we should do – is just be a mentsch.
An Orthodox Rabbi Discusses Transgender Issues in Jewish Texts - Jew in the City
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
Nope.
I am stating a simple fact.
Saint Frankenstein can live as a man. I don't care.
That doesn't mean Saint Frankenstein has a penis.
So - then - if I killed myself because Shadow Wolf and Saint Frankenstein shared their opinion that my beliefs were not true - you would blame them?
Or does you argument only work in one direction?
Yeah - I don't have a negative attitude toward transgender people.
I have transgender friends who know my opinion and accept it and we get along just fine.
I do have a problem with people who claim that my rights should be taken away because they don't agree with me.
I'm not "anti-trans" - I'm anti-wannabe-tyrannical-dictator-masquerading-as-a-victim-of-imagined-slights
Also - BTW - I have yet to see a "reasonable, non-ideological answer as to why people feel the need to transition".
If people transition because they feel the need - then they have no grounds to criticize me for my opinions about transitioning.
They transition because they believe it is the right thing to do.
I criticize transitioning because I believe it is the right thing to do.
This tells me all I need to know.
What do you expect trans people to do if not transition to their actual gender?
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
Shadow Wolf was the one who continued the discussion about your junk.
Since you claimed to have been born a biological female - I do know that you don't have a penis.
I was fine leaving this with my joke about us whipping them out and seeing which was bigger.
Well - me whipping it out at least.
I thought it was funny.
Stop talking about my genitals. You don't know what I have in my boxers and it's none of your business. I already have a girl, so buzz off. I find your remarks pretty gross, infuriating and highly inappropriate so drop it. That beard comment was a damn joke and sarcastic but you had to make things all perverted and weird. At this point, you're just bullying me.Shadow Wolf was the one who continued the discussion about your junk.
Since you claimed to have been born a biological female - I do know that you don't have a penis.
I was fine leaving this with my joke about us whipping them out and seeing which was bigger.
Well - me whipping it out at least.
I thought it was funny.
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
There is no need to ask anyone anything.
Saint Frankenstein offered a physical comparison as evidence of biological sex - I just offered a better one.
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
The idea that someone is born the wrong gender has no scientific basis.
That is an ideological opinion disguised as scientific fact.
You are acting no different than a religious zealot.
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
So only you can make jokes. And share opinions. And ride on buses.
I'd be a terrible bully considering that I only talk to you when you talk to me.
No one is forcing you to talk to me - you know?