'Man was created in the image of G-d'

[Desert Snake]

You do realize you just shot your own argument right square in the foot, right?

No, context. We argue points within the context of the religion. If you don't believe in a religion, why argue the points.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

No, it's in context. if you believe in a religion you examine the text through interpretive measures, if you don't, then whatever.

So, you're saying that as long as someone looks at something a certain way, they aren't looking at it any other way.

How exactly was that a relevant statement?

 

[Desert Snake]

So, you're saying that as long as someone looks at something a certain way, they aren't looking at it any other way.

How exactly was that a relevant statement?

Actually that isn't what I said. Christianity has different viewpoints, they CAN be argued within context.

Take a gander at the other forums and you'll see that that is true for all exept very Scripturally strict religions.

 

[Nakosis]

Of all the people mentioned in the New Testament only the age of John the Baptist is given, not his exact age, but his age in relationship to Jesus’s age. John was six months older then Jesus. Ever wonder why his age is mentioned?

Ok, not sure I'm convinced of the historical accuracy of the birthing stories, but lets say they were born 6 months apart. Why do you believe this is relevant?

 

[McBell]

No, context. We argue points within the context of the religion. If you don't believe in a religion, why argue the points.

Your inability (or perhaps unwillingness) to see you just destroyed your own argument makes any further discussion with you on this particular topic meaningless.

 

[Desert Snake]

Your inability (or perhaps unwillingness) to see you just destroyed your own argument makes any further discussion with you on this particular topic meaningless.

Wrong, you can argue aspects of a religion within the context of a religion. The reason why we don't argue outside of the context of religions is that no-one could 'prove' anyone else wrong, it would be 'I'm right, you're wrong' Ping-Pong.

 

[Ingledsva]

The Son is the Father. It's different aspects of the same Godhead.

Therefore, since God created man, so did Jesus.

I don't even have to present the Genesis inference, we still would have Jesus as Creator God.

/The OP is just something of interest/

Actually I don't think the NT Has Jesus saying he is God, Nor does it say anywhere, that Jesus is God.

Image of - power of - knowledge of - heir of - sent from, etc.


But nowhere that I know of does it say Jesus IS God.


Nor that there is a trinity.


Praying - or baptizing in the name of the Father (God) - the Son (sent human Messiah) and Spirit, - does not mean a trinity God.


Hear Oh Israel our God is ONE God.


Jesus speaking in the red -


Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:


Here Jesus is referencing Deuteronomy 6:4.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel, YHVH our Elohiym, is YHVH only/alone.


Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered prudently (exercised sound judgment), he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

Mar 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How can the scribes say that Christ is the Son of David?

Mar 12:36 For/Because David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


This references Psalm 110:1 - which uses YHVH - not lord twice.


Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. YHVH said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 110:2 YHVH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Psa 110:4 YHVH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.



Mar 12:37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.


He is very obviously claiming a linage through King David - who was told to sit at Gods right hand - until the enemies fall. He is claiming to be the Messiah from the line of David. Who will sit at the Right Hand of God. A human sent by God to bring the enemy/and age, to an end, generations later. He is not God. He very specifically tells us there is ONE God.


David and Solomon are called Sons of God - as are the Hebrew people.


Jesus is just claiming to be the Messiah - the SINGULAR/special Son of God - awaited from the line of David - whom will sit at the Right Hand of God.


*

 

[Koldo]

Saul was probably atheistic when he 'met' Jesus on the way to Damascus, hence why he freaked out.

Wait...what?
Where did you get that from?

...

Nevermind.

 

[roger1440]

So tell us what you believe about that .



*

"...and the older will serve the younger." (Genesis 25:23)

 

[Desert Snake]

Nor that there is a trinity.

O.k., I didn't say there was a trinity, I believe in Oneness concept, I already stated that.

 

[Ingledsva]

"...and the older will serve the younger." (Genesis 25:23)

That story is about Jacob and Esau. The older did serve the younger.


Gen 25:22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Gen 25:24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.

Gen 25:25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.

Gen 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

Gen 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
Gen 25:28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.
Gen 25:29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
Gen 25:30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

Gen 25:31 And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.

Gen 25:32 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?

Gen 25:33 And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
*

 

[viole]

'Man was created in the image of G-d'.
The G-d that is the likeness of man is Jesus, not an "invisible' god.

Jesus is The Creator G-d.

We are pretty similar to gorillas. At least much closer than we are to, say, spiders.

What theological consequences can we draw from that?

Ciao

- viole

 

[roger1440]

That story is about Jacob and Esau. The older did serve the younger.


Gen 25:22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Gen 25:24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.

Gen 25:25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.

Gen 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

Gen 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
Gen 25:28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.
Gen 25:29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
Gen 25:30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

Gen 25:31 And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.

Gen 25:32 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?

Gen 25:33 And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
*

John the Baptist represents the Old Covenant. Jesus represents the New Covenant. The purpose of the Old Covenant is to lead to the New Covenant. The New Covenant is built upon the Old Covenant. The New does not replace the Old. The newness does not come from the content. It comes from how it is revealed.

 

[CMike]

John the Baptist represents the Old Covenant. Jesus represents the New Covenant. The purpose of the Old Covenant is to lead to the New Covenant. The New Covenant is built upon the Old Covenant. The New does not replace the Old. The newness does not come from the content. It comes from how it is revealed.

Obviously in judaism there is no such a thing as a "new covenant".

You can't improve on what G-D said in the Torah. Also we are commanded not to add nor subtract to what is in the Torah.

 

[roger1440]

Obviously in judaism there is no such a thing as a "new covenant".

You can't improve on what G-D said in the Torah. Also we are commanded not to add nor subtract to what is in the Torah.

"31 See, a time is coming-declares the LoRD-when I
will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and
the House of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I
made with their fathers, when I took them by the hand to
lead them out of the land of Egypt, a covenant which they
broke, though I espoused b them-declares the LoRD.
33 But such is the covenant I will make with the House of
Israel after these days-declares the LORD: I will put My
Teaching into their inmost being and inscribe it upon their
hearts. Then I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 No longer will they need to teach one another and
say to one another, "Heed the LoRD"; for all of them, from
the least of them to the greatest, shall heed Me-declares
the LoRD." (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

​

These are excerpts from the foot notes of the Jewish study Bible:

3 1 : The new covenant has been interpreted
by Christians as a prophecy
of the new covenant through
Jesus (New Testament means new
covenant), but here it refers to the
restoration of Israel after the Babylonian
exile and the reconstruction
of the Temple. According to
this passage, it is not the content
of the new covenant which will be
different, but how it is learned.
33-34: God places the Teaching,
i.e., the Torah, in the inmost being
or heart of the people so that the
covenant cannot be broken again.

 

[CMike]

"31 See, a time is coming-declares the LoRD-when I
will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and
the House of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I
made with their fathers, when I took them by the hand to
lead them out of the land of Egypt, a covenant which they
broke, though I espoused b them-declares the LoRD.
33 But such is the covenant I will make with the House of
Israel after these days-declares the LORD: I will put My
Teaching into their inmost being and inscribe it upon their
hearts. Then I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 No longer will they need to teach one another and
say to one another, "Heed the LoRD"; for all of them, from
the least of them to the greatest, shall heed Me-declares
the LoRD." (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

​

These are excerpts from the foot notes of the Jewish study Bible:

3 1 : The new covenant has been interpreted
by Christians as a prophecy
of the new covenant through
Jesus (New Testament means new
covenant), but here it refers to the
restoration of Israel after the Babylonian
exile and the reconstruction
of the Temple. According to
this passage, it is not the content
of the new covenant which will be
different, but how it is learned.
33-34: God places the Teaching,
i.e., the Torah, in the inmost being
or heart of the people so that the
covenant cannot be broken again.

Exactly.

You answered your own point.

 

[Ingledsva]

That story is about Jacob and Esau. The older did serve the younger.


Gen 25:22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Gen 25:24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.

Gen 25:25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.

Gen 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

Gen 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
Gen 25:28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.
Gen 25:29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
Gen 25:30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

Gen 25:31 And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.

Gen 25:32 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?

Gen 25:33 And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.

John the Baptist represents the Old Covenant. Jesus represents the New Covenant. The purpose of the Old Covenant is to lead to the New Covenant. The New Covenant is built upon the Old Covenant. The New does not replace the Old. The newness does not come from the content. It comes from how it is revealed.

It does not say that, - which makes it opinion.

Nor does it have anything to do with Gen 25 - and the older shall serve the younger.

It actually says John the Baptist is sent ahead by God to prepare the way that men might believe -


Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Joh 1: bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is ordained before me: for he was before me.

"ginomai" - ordained.

No connection to the OT text. John tells us Jesus was BEFORE HIM, and he, John, is just a messenger sent to bear witness.


*

 

[roger1440]

It does not say that, - which makes it opinion.

Nor does it have anything to do with Gen 25 - and the older shall serve the younger.

It actually says John the Baptist is sent ahead by God to prepare the way that men might believe -


Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Joh 1: bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is ordained before me: for he was before me.

"ginomai" - ordained.

No connection to the OT text. John tells us Jesus was BEFORE HIM, and he, John, is just a messenger sent to bear witness.


*

The Old Covenant is sent ahead of the New Covenant. True?

 

[Ingledsva]

The Old Covenant is sent ahead of the New Covenant. True?

Again - opinion - as it doesn't say it is about that.


EDIT - Forgot to add - How is it a new covenant between John and Jesus - if John was specifically sent to bear witness of Jesus?


The new covenant is a change from one of the traditional Hebrew religions (sects) to Jesus.


*

 

[roger1440]

Again - opinion - as it doesn't say it is about that.


*

Ok, I'll bite. Why is only John the Baptist's age given in the entire New Testament?