Thank god! Hillary isn't our president.
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Manafort found guilty on 8 of 18 counts.
- Thread starter Subduction Zone
- Start date
Thank god! Hillary isn't our president.
Riders
Well-Known Member
I agree but considering the fact that she has already been investigated and they found nothing,I would not count on anything as far as Hillary goes.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Well where is the collision? Where?
Please do not change the subject and side track it with discussions of Hillary. This is a thread concerning Manafort, tRump and possibly Cohen happening now.
The issue is at present not collusion, . . . but nonetheless as the dominos fall, Manafort and Cohen, violations of election laws, and laws concerning involvement and conspiracy with foreign governments become the legal issues. tRump's son would be the first head on the chopping block. Actually collusion by and of itself is not a legal question.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
But the whole thing started that way. right?
Actually no, the convening of the Special Counsel investigation was far more broader in depth than just what is called collusion. Collusion in and of itself is vague and not against the law. The Special Counsel was convened to investigate violations of USA law related to possible collusion and any violations of law related to relations with foreign powers, and violations of election laws. The conviction of Manafort is directly related his dealings with Ukranian government and business interests related to Russia.
Investigations take a long time if one is careful as prosecutors need to be. I don't know whether or not Donny might have actually violated the law, that's for the investigators and a jury to decide if it comes to that.
But he's clearly a swamp monster with many around him who are corrupt and unethical.
And the investigation started in May of last year not 700 days ago.
And Watergate took two years to unfold so the time involved is well short of that.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
We've been over this before: NO! Mueller's order's are not specifically aimed at only Trump or only at a collusion.
Stanyon
WWMRD?
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The problem is this is wasted time...
If Trump knew he did something wrong he may be impeached, let's presume for the sake of the argument he did. The only thing that would get him removed from office is high crimes against the US involving him breaking an oath of office.
If the charge happens before the office is assumed (if he colluded with Russia before accepting the office of President) there is just nothing that is going to happen. It's not a crime to collude with Russia before you're a President. After you're a President you have all sorts of diplomatic leeway and it becomes even more difficult to prosecute this. The best that could happen of this is that Mueller bates him into false testimony or perjury. Generally, a President is immune to these sort of minor convictions so again a lost cause. It would be impossible to even get this to the voting floor in a majority Republican held Congress or Senate. (some info here, OLC: A Sitting President's Amenability to Indictment and Criminal Prosecution)
So. my prediction: Trump doesn't testify to Mueller. The End. He can avoid refuting or affirming any statements made by Comey, Cohen, and Manafort. All his testimony would do is create more evidence, so holding his tongue is the successful strategy. If Trump leaks out commentary that "refutes" any of the above he creates a potential counter-case, so no incentive to do that. He's just going to let them play out the rope until they choke themselves. There is a difference between **** posting on Twitter and testifying to a federal agent as well. His Twitter posting is completely irrelevant.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I do believe that you are mistaken. Impeachment is not limited to crimes that the President performed after the was sworn in. And what he would be guilty of is how he used his collusion with Russia. Of course you did not mention that Cohen plead guilty today and all but said that it was Trump that gave him the instructions to pay off McDougal and Daniels. That would be a serious campaign funding violation. That alone would be enough to get him impeached. Here is a legal article on impeachment. I do not see the limits that you claimed to exist in it:
Presidential Impeachment: The Legal Standard and Procedure - FindLaw
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Believe it or not, Mueller's investigation outlines what he's investigating. For all the talk of "collusion," Mueller's investigation order doesn't even actually use that word. It's not even worded in a way to make charging Trump with anything the goal. Their isn't even a goal of charging anyone - only investigation and pressing for charges where illegal actions are found. Even if there were no guilty charges or plea bargains or nothing was found, according to Mueller's orders he still would have done his job and satisfied the conditions of looking into things.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Perhaps collusion is the one crime that Trump did not commit. Therefore his attempt to focus the investigation on collusion.
Stanyon
WWMRD?
At whose expense? I don't like paying for nothing as do most people, I want results- non B.S. results.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Do you think that there have been no results yet?
Stanyon
WWMRD?
Seems like typical White collar crimes so far
I expect him to get about 10 years. That is a long time in prison for someone his age. Although he will probably serve only half of that.
Now onto to his next trial in September.