Manafort found guilty on 8 of 18 counts.

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If I remember history correctly, I believe this is the point where Mike Pence steals an unarmed Air Force bomber, flies to the UK, and parachutes into Scotland in an attempt to save the Trump administration by making peace with the Queen.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

At whose expense? I don't like paying for nothing as do most people, I want results- non B.S. results.

Much like science, you can't force results in a criminal investigation. You can, but it's shoddy word and shady to do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If I remember history correctly, I believe this is the point where Mike Pence steals an unarmed Air Force bomber, flies to the UK, and parachutes into Scotland in an attempt to save the Trump administration by making peace with the Queen.

He's gotta have an entourage for that since the queen is a woman.

 

[Cacotopia]

My emphasis


I gave your post a but wanted to repost it.

Unfortunately it will never happen. Too many lawmakers and their major contributors realize that they are just a stone's throw away from getting caught.

I would even be OK with a mandatory one-year-per-million-dollars minimum sentence.

in the general population too.

 

[PureX]

Boy, the Trump supporters have come a long way since "Lock Her Up, Lock Her Up" was a regular chant at Trump rallies and Fox News.

Nowadays, they have moved from that to "Innocent until proven guilty", to "It's a Witch Hunt".

Without a trace of recognition of the irony.
Tom

Irony is SO complex!

 

[Falvlun]

“I’m going to surround myself only with the best and most serious people. We want top of the line professionals.” -Trump.

How’s that working out for you, Donald?

 

[Woberts]

Eh, it has to be a liberal plot, right?
Right?

 

[Mindmaster]

Boy, the Trump supporters have come a long way since "Lock Her Up, Lock Her Up" was a regular chant at Trump rallies and Fox News.

Nowadays, they have moved from that to "Innocent until proven guilty", to "It's a Witch Hunt".

Without a trace of recognition of the irony.
Tom

If there are no witches, it's a witch hunt. The thing about witch hunts is they have to keep manufacturing witches even if they don't exist.

I've explained how none of it matters on an earlier post in the thread. But, the short is.... Before he's a President and takes the oath there are no rules he can talk to whomever he wants, and after the President has the capacity to speak with any foreign leader he wants for any reason. All the other guys were charged with doing things wrong in their personal space, which has nothing to do with Trump. Even if, by a stretch, something happens with the Stormy Daniels situation he'd be shielded from any sort of conviction by Presidential immunity. Witch hunt, witch hunt, witch hunt, and wasted time.

 

[Falvlun]

If there are no witches, it's a witch hunt. The thing about witch hunts is they have to keep manufacturing witches even if they don't exist.

I've explained how none of it matters on an earlier post in the thread. But, the short is.... Before he's a President and takes the oath there are no rules he can talk to whomever he wants, and after the President has the capacity to speak with any foreign leader he wants for any reason. All the other guys were charged with doing things wrong in their personal space, which has nothing to do with Trump. Even if, by a stretch, something happens with the Stormy Daniels situation he'd be shielded from any sort of conviction by Presidential immunity. Witch hunt, witch hunt, witch hunt, and wasted time.

This is simply untrue. The whole reason Flynn got in trouble was because he spoke to the Russian government prior to Trump taking office. You can’t simply talk to any government about anything you want.

Manafort, Flynn, and Cohen are all relevant to Trump, since he hired them for his campaign, his administration, and his personal life. At the very minimum, they demonstratE Trump’s poor judgment.

Manafort’s ties to Russia are obviously of interest. That trial occurs late September. Manafort is also the guy who lobbied for Pence to be Vice President.

Flynn did illegal stuff as part of Trump’s Administration and then lied about it to the FBI. Trump has continually tried to cover for him. Furthermore, Trump and Pence were personally and explicitly warned that Flynn was not trustworthy and they hired him for national security advisor anyway.

Cohen testified that Trump directed him to perform illegal actions that may have also violated campaign finance law. Cohen was convicted for these actions. If it was illegal for Cohen, it was illegal for Trump. Cohen’s legal troubles directly arise from things he did for Trump. Cohen’s personal space directly overlaps Trump’s personal space.

As for “Presidential immunity”, not sure how anyone can find that remotely convincing. President Clinton had to testify in a civil case regarding a blow job. Why not Trump? Clinton was impeached because he lied about that blow job. Trump has repeatedly lied about his affair and the payments. If Clinton was able to be impeached, then why not Trump?

And lastly, if you are down to the defense of “even if he’s done illegal stuff there’s nothing you can do about it”, then you have lost, morally, legally, and politically. No one is above the law— nor should we want them to be.You’ve gone beyond that into actively cheering on the idea that a criminal should be allowed to stay in office. Simply disgusting.

 

[shunyadragon]

We've been over this before: NO! Mueller's order's are not specifically aimed at only Trump or only at a collusion.

Its odd that the word is being tossed around like turds in barnyard brawl, but the word does not occur in the orders for the Special Investigation Counsel.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Its odd that the word is being tossed around like turds in barnyard brawl, but the word does not occur in the orders for the Special Investigation Counsel.

Correct, it was to investigate Russian interference in the campaign. The word collusion does not appear:

Special Counsel investigation (2017–present) - Wikipedia

But that order does include the phrase:

"and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation."

The various people that have been convicted or charged have been done so within the scope of the investigation. And there are no examples of witches being manufactured. I would like to hear of an example of one. If the convictions were "fake" the Trump side might have a point, but they clearly are not. Cohen appears to have flipped. His deal will depend oh him giving later testimony. When the first one flips the others are not far behind.

 

[Mindmaster]

As for “Presidential immunity”, not sure how anyone can find that remotely convincing. President Clinton had to testify in a civil case regarding a blow job. Why not Trump? Clinton was impeached because he lied about that blow job. Trump has repeatedly lied about his affair and the payments. If Clinton was able to be impeached, then why not Trump?

About the only thing that Presidential immunity will not cover is high crimes and treasonous acts, but simply talking to a foreign official isn't going to be enough to prove something like that. It takes real action, like undermining US power to allow a foreign agent to attack us or something like that. It's obvious none of this of this magnitude.

His judge of character in his personal associations will not matter even if they're all criminals. That's not how the justice system works here. Anyway, I've presented the facts as I see them. If you or anyone else feels like being blinded by Trump hate have at it. But, with that being said... Blind is blind.

It's obvious that the public doesn't care, so there are questions of whether Mueller is even doing the public will anymore. Presidential ratings are up-up-and-up for quite awhile now.

 

[Falvlun]

About the only thing that Presidential immunity will not cover is high crimes and treasonous acts, but simply talking to a foreign official isn't going to be enough to prove something like that. It takes real action, like undermining US power to allow a foreign agent to attack us or something like that. It's obvious none of this of this magnitude.

His judge of character in his personal associations will not matter even if they're all criminals. That's not how the justice system works here. Anyway, I've presented the facts as I see them. If you or anyone else feels like being blinded by Trump hate have at it. But, with that being said... Blind is blind.

It's obvious that the public doesn't care, so there are questions of whether Mueller is even doing the public will anymore. Presidential ratings are up-up-and-up for quite awhile now.

The amount of delusion in this post is staggering.

 

[columbus]

out the only thing that Presidential immunity will not cover is high crimes and treasonous acts,

You can't seriously believe this. Do you not remember the 90's, when cheating on his wife resulted in the Clinton Impeachment Circus?

All that has to happen is some Capitol Hill committee starts an investigation and calls Trump to testify under oath. I am confident that Trump would blithely lie the way he is accustomed to doing. And about subjects much more serious than a BJ.
Then he will have committed perjury, just like Clinton did.

Personally, I am resigned to the Trump presidency until 2020. But I would like to see the ugly new pool he brought to The Swamp drained.
Tom

 

[Subduction Zone]

About the only thing that Presidential immunity will not cover is high crimes and treasonous acts, but simply talking to a foreign official isn't going to be enough to prove something like that. It takes real action, like undermining US power to allow a foreign agent to attack us or something like that. It's obvious none of this of this magnitude.

His judge of character in his personal associations will not matter even if they're all criminals. That's not how the justice system works here. Anyway, I've presented the facts as I see them. If you or anyone else feels like being blinded by Trump hate have at it. But, with that being said... Blind is blind.

It's obvious that the public doesn't care, so there are questions of whether Mueller is even doing the public will anymore. Presidential ratings are up-up-and-up for quite awhile now.

I lifted this from the Wiki article on impeachment:

"The Constitution defines impeachment at the federal level and limits impeachment to "The President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States" who may be impeached and removed only for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".[32] Several commentators have suggested that Congress alone may decide for itself what constitutes a "high crime or misdemeanor", especially since Nixon v. United States stated that the Supreme Court did not have the authority to determine whether the Senate properly "tried" a defendant.[33] In 1970, then-House Minority Leader Gerald R. Ford defined the criterion as he saw it: "An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history."[34] "

Impeachment - Wikipedia

The payoffs of Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal could both easily qualify as bribery. And there are probably quite a few that would qualify as "what a majority of the House of Representatives consider it to be".

 

[Mindmaster]

The amount of delusion in this post is staggering.

I can concede that you probably legitimately feel that way, if you're part of the Trump Derangement Syndrome sufferers that inundate this forum. But, it's just herd conformity and something I reject on that basis. The herd is happy to run itself right off the cliff so long as everyone else is doing it.

Both the Dems and Reps only offer 10% of what I want any time so I am neither. I am me - an individual not a political party. That means the media **** storm and the projection of someone else's misdeeds onto another are irrelevant to me. It also means that relatively minor mistakes are not significant because my panties won't get into a twist at that juncture. Whether what I say pleases anyone here again is irrelevant to me, I will always present as much of the truth based on the information I have in my speech. If that truth offends you, maybe it's a problem, but it's not my problem it's yours.

Inability to accept that absolutely nothing will happen to Trump over any of this is not a disagreement with me, it's a disagreement with U.S. District and Supreme Court rulings, take it up with them. Failure to accept that information is just being suckered in by owns own confirmation biases.

 

[Mindmaster]

You can't seriously believe this. Do you not remember the 90's, when cheating on his wife resulted in the Clinton Impeachment Circus?

All that has to happen is some Capitol Hill committee starts an investigation and calls Trump to testify under oath. I am confident that Trump would blithely lie the way he is accustomed to doing. And about subjects much more serious than a BJ.
Then he will have committed perjury, just like Clinton did.

Personally, I am resigned to the Trump presidency until 2020. But I would like to see the ugly new pool he brought to The Swamp drained.
Tom

Clinton didn't go to jail, didn't get from removed from office, and barely paid a price. Also, I think Trump is smarter than Clinton -- he will not testify. If he doesn't testify or refute any statements made by Comey, Manafort, or Cohen he has about zero risk. It will not go to other governmental bodies if all he does is refuses. That's why I think it's much mental meandering about nothing. If Trump doesn't give them an interview it's over because there is no possible perjury or false testimony and that's about the only thing they could get him for. They lose the opportunity to fashion a false narrative from the coerced witnesses (since they're getting reduced sentences for 'cooperation') and other mental gymnastics - game over.

 

[Falvlun]

Clinton didn't go to jail, didn't get from removed from office, and barely paid a price. Also, I think Trump is smarter than Clinton -- he will not testify. If he doesn't testify or refute any statements made by Comey, Manafort, or Cohen he has about zero risk. It will not go to other governmental bodies if all he does is refuses. That's why I think it's much mental meandering about nothing. If Trump doesn't give them an interview it's over because there is no possible perjury or false testimony and that's about the only thing they could get him for. They lose the opportunity to fashion a false narrative from the coerced witnesses (since they're getting reduced sentences for 'cooperation') and other mental gymnastics - game over.

Clinton was subpoenaed. How exactly was he supposed to avoid testifying? Honestly, I really don’t understand what the hold up is with getting Trump under oath. And why wouldn’t you want him to testify since you believe he’s innocent?

Also, here’s more of your bubbles bursting:

“Clinton v. Jones, 520 U.S. 681 (1997)[1], was a landmark United States Supreme Court case establishing that a sitting President of the United States has no immunity from civil law litigation, in federal court, against him or her, for acts done before taking office and unrelated to the office. In particular, there is no temporary immunity, so it is not required to delay all federal cases until the President leaves office.” Source.

So much for your presidential immunity.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Clinton was subpoenaed. How exactly was he supposed to avoid testifying? Honestly, I really don’t understand what the hold up is with getting Trump under oath. And why wouldn’t you want him to testify since you believe he’s innocent?

Also, here’s more of your bubbles bursting:

“Clinton v. Jones, 520 U.S. 681 (1997)[1], was a landmark United States Supreme Court case establishing that a sitting President of the United States has no immunity from civil law litigation, in federal court, against him or her, for acts done before taking office and unrelated to the office. In particular, there is no temporary immunity, so it is not required to delay all federal cases until the President leaves office.” Source.

So much for your presidential immunity.

It appears that all that is left is wild grasping at straw. I provided a post that demonstrated the error about the standards for impeachment. You showed that he can be impeached.

And now it is the die hard Republicans that are ignoring that Clinton's impeachable offense was lying under oath. It used to be the Democrats that would not admit to that. Strange how the stories spin when one's own ox is being gored.

 

[Mindmaster]

Clinton was subpoenaed. How exactly was he supposed to avoid testifying? Honestly, I really don’t understand what the hold up is with getting Trump under oath. And why wouldn’t you want him to testify since you believe he’s innocent?

Also, here’s more of your bubbles bursting:

“Clinton v. Jones, 520 U.S. 681 (1997)[1], was a landmark United States Supreme Court case establishing that a sitting President of the United States has no immunity from civil law litigation, in federal court, against him or her, for acts done before taking office and unrelated to the office. In particular, there is no temporary immunity, so it is not required to delay all federal cases until the President leaves office.” Source.

So much for your presidential immunity.

He has no immunity to civil law cases, but he has immunity from their consequences. That's why it's all irrelevant. Unless they can prove some sort of correlation that proves his acts endanger the entire country nothing happens.

Presidential Immunity | Encyclopedia.com

"Although Justice joseph story maintained a President was immune from criminal prosecution and imprisonment while discharging his duties, it is arguable that Clinton v. Jones sanctions any lawsuits, even criminal ones, based on a President's unofficial conduct. Moreover, no other federal officials, not even Vice Presidents, are immune while in office from criminal prosecution or imprisonment."

So, it's not that he cannot be convicted or tried or punished but that the punishments will be stayed and never take effect. Likewise, such a ruling makes a call for an impeachment vote but a removal from office in such a case is hard to get as Clinton found out. Impeachment is just another word for "charges", it is not a guilty or a conviction.