Many many Chariot wheels found at bottom of Red sea.

[Audie]

Gods son said there was a flood. I believe him over mortals who know little.

This is your belief. There is no way to show any of it is true.
unsubstantiated claims have zero evidentiary value.

EVEN IF “ Jesus” was who you say, and did actually make one
mention of Noah, it does not mean he referred to an actual person.

The name Noah is not a reference to let alone proof of s world wide flood.

And IF there’s an actual event that is the basis of the story, that does not mean the story is accurate.


With no assuming at all such as you do , we find the Bible shows the value of Pi to be 3.0

Now we could try your way, and go with “ God said it “ so Pi=3.

Proof far beyond sane doubt shows Pi does NOT equal 3.0

So do you go with what God says, or what man says?


( trick question)

 

[shunyadragon]

I just watched a video showing they found encrusted chariot wheels stretching from Nuwerba beach to the Saudi arabian side of red sea=Proof the exodus occurred.
I always thought they should be able to find some proof.

None

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well you got that right.
Indeed there could be evidence of chariot wheels in the Red Sea..... Correct

And it's true that any such finds cannot prove an exodus. In any case I think that any Exodus occured to the North of that sea but that's just my opinion.

And then you call the Exodus story a myth. That's wrong, because although you can show it is not proved you can't prove it to be a myth.

Ooh, you have the burden of proof backwards. In the case of the story it does predict that endless evidence of the journey would exist and yet there is none to be found. When an event predicts endless evidence and yet none is found that is evidence against the idea. We do have evidence against the idea and all that believers have are weak claims that are not tied together in a meaningful fashion. Archaeologists have admitted that there was no Exodus for over a hundred years.

 

[oldbadger]

Ooh, you have the burden of proof backwards.

For my opinion I need not prove anything.
You made the claim when you wrote 'myth' so if you feel able to prove that then go for it.

In the case of the story it does predict that endless evidence of the journey would exist and yet there is none to be found.

That a nation would celebrate it's memory long long afterwards is quite a good pointer to an event happening.

When an event predicts endless evidence and yet none is found that is evidence against the idea. We do have evidence against the idea

No you don't. You just have nothing.

and all that believers have are weak claims that are not tied together in a meaningful fashion.

I have tied together my own opinions before now, and I expect that others might have, so....no.

Archaeologists have admitted that there was no Exodus for over a hundred years.

Archeologists may have admitted to no archeology, but you seem to enlarge that somewhat.

 

[Subduction Zone]

For my opinion I need not prove anything.
You made the claim when you wrote 'myth' so if you feel able to prove that then go for it.

I have, weren't you paying attention?

That a nation would celebrate it's memory long long afterwards is quite a good pointer to an event happening.

No, that simply does not follow.

No you don't. You just have nothing.

Sorry, but that is a false claim on your part. Perhaps you should work on those critical thinking skills. I gave a hypothetical example do you need more?

I have tied together my own opinions before now, and I expect that others might have, so....no.

No, you have only presented logical fallacies.

Archeologists may have admitted to no archeology, but you seem to enlarge that somewhat.

How so? This is well known. You should ask for support if you are unaware of what you should have known before going into a debate.

 

[servant1]

The Bible is the claim. It is not the evidence. And until someone demonstrates that it is reliable it cannot be evidence.

When God shows the world it will be too late as it was in Noah's day. Noah warned all he could, they laughed, probably wanted proof. God gave them the proof they wanted.

 

[Subduction Zone]

When God shows the world it will be too late as it was in Noah's day. Noah warned all he could, they laughed, probably wanted proof. God gave them the proof they wanted.

Here is a simple question:

Does God lie?

 

[servant1]

Here is a simple question:

Does God lie?

Never

 

[Subduction Zone]

Never

Good, Then Genesis cannot be read literally. The only way that it could be literally true is if God was a liar. To understand this you would have to be willing to learn the basics of science and of evidence. I cannot force you to learn, but I can point out that if God cannot lie that there was no Flood of Noah.

 

[servant1]

Good, Then Genesis cannot be read literally. The only way that it could be literally true is if God was a liar. To understand this you would have to be willing to learn the basics of science and of evidence. I cannot force you to learn, but I can point out that if God cannot lie that there was no Flood of Noah.

God didn't lie. Why don't you show us all? I will show you your error.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God didn't lie. Why don't you show us all? I will show you your error.

You have to agree to learn the basics of science. Until you do so you will simply deny the evidence and that is a form of lying on its own.

 

[servant1]

You have to agree to learn the basics of science. Until you do so you will simply deny the evidence and that is a form of lying on its own.

Who's science? Mans?--Do you mean the absolute corrupt misused science and math man is using that is destroying Gods earth? The misused science that is selling us cancer daily? All for what-the almighty dollar over human existence--I say, no ty. You put your faith in their words, i will put mine in Gods words.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who's science? Mans?--Do you mean the absolute corrupt misused science and math man is using that is destroying Gods earth? The misused science that is selling us cancer daily? All for what-the almighty dollar over human existence--I say, no ty. You put your faith in their words, i will put mine in Gods words.

I am talking about the science that you are hypocritically relying upon right now. Do not get mad just because you are wrong and you call your own God a liar. You should try to learn how you do that.

I see this reaction all of the time from people that realize that they are wrong, but are terribly frightened of what that means.

If you want to reject science you need to reject all of it. That means the science that allows you to talk on the internet. The science that allows you to even talk on the phone. The science that allows you to drive a car. You hypocritically use rely on the science that refutes a literal interpretation of the Bible every day of your life.

 

[Valjean]

For my opinion I need not prove anything.
You made the claim when you wrote 'myth' so if you feel able to prove that then go for it.

He was just pointing out that an unsupported claim is, by definition, a type of myth.
You made a claim you hold to be factual. If you expect anyone to accept it you have the burden of providing confirmatory evidence. Till then, belief is reasonably deferred.

That a nation would celebrate it's memory long long afterwards is quite a good pointer to an event happening.

Legends commonly persist and become culturally embedded. Persistence is not good evidence of ontological truth. Different cultures have different myths and religious beliefs, some better evidenced than others.

 

[Valjean]

When God shows the world it will be too late as it was in Noah's day. Noah warned all he could, they laughed, probably wanted proof. God gave them the proof they wanted.

Now you're just repeating the legend; preaching. If you expect to convince anyone, present some actual evidence.

 

[Valjean]

Who's science? Mans?--Do you mean the absolute corrupt misused science and math man is using that is destroying Gods earth? The misused science that is selling us cancer daily? All for what-the almighty dollar over human existence--I say, no ty. You put your faith in their words, i will put mine in Gods words.

How facts are used has nothing to do with their truth; and science abhors faith in anyone's words.

You accept God and Christian mythology as axiomatic, and use these premises as support for your conclusions. You need to go back a step. Until you support these premises, I will not be accepting the conclusions derived therefrom.

There are hundreds of different religions, with different mythologies, making different claims. What makes you think yours is the correct one? What is your epistemic methodology? What tools do you use to assess the various, conflicting claims?

 

[Valjean]

Chariots in the Red Sea? FACT CHECK: Were Chariot Wheels Found at the Bottom of the Red Sea?

Google "chariots in Red Sea" and you'll find extensive critical commentary. If you have new findings please provide a link.

Q: Why would you expect chariot parts in the Red Sea? The Bible makes no mention of the Red Sea. "Yam Suph" is reed sea.
Q: Why would anyone fleeing Egypt without boats head for what was known to be an impassible barrier?

 

[oldbadger]

I have, weren't you paying attention?
No, that simply does not follow.
Sorry, but that is a false claim on your part. Perhaps you should work on those critical thinking skills. I gave a hypothetical example do you need more?

Yes...... Need more.
You surely don't think that you can prove anything with an Hypothetical example, do you?

No, you have only presented logical fallacies.

You haven't read my logical proposals, obviously.

'Logical fallacy' ???
It makes a lot more sense to call my proposals either illogical or fallacies....... But both together?

How so? This is well known. You should ask for support if you are unaware of what you should have known before going into a debate.

That's easy to explain.
When archaeology doesn't find anything like chariot wheels in a sea, this cannot prove that none were ever lost there.
However, I don't happen to believe that any Exodus occured through the sea, rather through a reed sea such as a huge papyrus marsh or similar.

 

[oldbadger]

He was just pointing out that an unsupported claim is, by definition, a type of myth.

Really ?
It would be so strange if our press reported all unsupported claims as myths!
A 'type of myth'? Maybe you could give different kinds of myths their own titles?

You made a claim you hold to be factual. If you expect anyone to accept it you have the burden of providing confirmatory evidence. Till then, belief is reasonably deferred.

Can you actually tell me what I have claimed?
Have you read any post of mine that supports an Exodus through a drained Red Sea? You won't find one.

Legends commonly persist and become culturally embedded. Persistence is not good evidence of ontological truth. Different cultures have different myths and religious beliefs, some better evidenced than others.

The fact that an Exodus could have happened cannot be squashed by determined mythers.

I just don't think it happened through the Red Sea but the Reed Sea to the north.

I certainly believe that the whole tradition was hugely enhanced.

 

[oldbadger]

No, you have only presented logical fallacies.

Riders launched a thread about the Exodus in General religious debates, and in post 431 I wrote:-

Research in to sea tsunamis, seismic activity, spring tidal ranges, storm surges, rainfall flooding and more are most interesting in the marshes to the North of the Suez gulf (upper red sea). So far not all the results are positive for any exodus, but I'm researching.

None of those aspects offer illogical or false suggestions. And I doubt that you would have ever considered any of them.......true?