JM2C
CHRISTIAN
Jews don't drink blood from a cup, symbolic or literal, in a religious service.
So what's your point?
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Jews don't drink blood from a cup, symbolic or literal, in a religious service.
So what's your point?
You mean all the possible resources rcc could offer to draw people to Mary and the saints at the expense of the Lord Jesus on the cross?You have to offer all of the resources possible to draw people to Jesus before we can even address the gate issue. If they don't ever come to know Jesus, the gate issue is moot.
”Bare minimum requirements” to become a Christian? I have good news for you and it does not require anything but faith alone.You have no idea of what is required to be a Catholic. So tell us, from your past experience of being a Catholic, what are the bare minimum requirements, to the best of your knowledge.
Please follow the link. Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?Worship - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
This is not somewhat my definition of worship but I dont restrict it it to deities and the supernatural. People worship money and so forth. It is how people place what they love in their life and the level of gratitude they give for it.
In relation to the definition:
transitive verb
1
:to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2
:to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion <a celebrityworshipped by her fans>
--
Dictionaries are not objective. Not all worship pla es emphasis on deities.
commentary? What am I looking for and how does it relate to the definition of worship in my post?Please follow the link. Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?
Yes, Carlitacommentary? What am I looking for and how does it relate to the definition of worship in my post?
What am I looking for?Yes, Carlita
Did you understand what you’ve C&P here? Please compare this C&P to your statement here.Once again, Jesus is a superior being. It's not cannibalism.
This info may help you.
Catholic Bible 101 - When Non-Catholics say...
“The Eucharist is only symbolic. I can’t see any difference between a consecrated host and a plain host.”
Then you say…
Do you have a soul? Yes? Then please show it to me. Does gravity exist? Then please show me what it looks like. Has anyone ever seen the wind, or just the effects of the wind? What does air look like? Catholics walk by faith, not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7). The Real Presence of Jesus is hidden in the Eucharist EXACTLY like the divinity of Jesus was hidden in His manhood. Nobody who looked at Jesus could tell he was God by looking at him (except during the Transfiguration), and the Eucharist on every altar of every Catholic Church is just like that. You can't tell by looking at a consecrated host or the Precious Blood that it is truly Jesus, but, IT IS! Every Sunday Catholics say that we believe in all things seen and unseen, from the Nicene Creed formed in 325 AD. Jesus said at the Last Supper, “This IS my body” (Matthew 26:26), not “This represents my body.” Paul says that if you eat the Eucharist without discerning THE BODY (1 Corinthians 11:29-30), then you eat it to your own condemnation, and could get sick and die. Jesus Himself saysHis Flesh is real foodandHis blood is real drink(John 6:55). Just like the Adam physically ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and died (Genesis 3:3-17), just so, we are to physically eat Jesus’ (the new Adam, 1 Corinthians 15:45) flesh (John 6:51-56) from His tree (the Cross, Acts 5:30) and live forever. When Jesus says that “theflesh is useless” (John 6:63), He is not referring toHisflesh (John 6:51: 54: 55: 56), but rather our human flesh in general. Otherwise, it would mean that Jesus’ flesh is useless, which would negate everything He just said in the entire chapter of John 6. There is no record in any of the gospels concerning the Last Supper of anyone present eating a regular Passover Lamb; rather they ate a consecrated piece of motzah bread that Jesus said was His Body, and we all know that Jesus is the spotless Lamb of God. And always remember, the Jews had to physically eat the Passover Lamb to complete the Passover meal, not a symbol of a Passover Lamb. If the Eucharist is really only a "symbol," then Jesus and His followers didn't really understand anything about the Passover Meal, and that is very hard for any Christian to fathom. Some people say that when Jesus said "This IS My Body," that he was speaking metaphorically, like when He said "I am the Door," or "I am the Vine." But in the cases of the door and vine analogies, no one said "How can this man become a wooden door or a climbing plant. BUT, in John 6:52, His disciples did say, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?" In other words, His followers understood Him EXACTLY to be speaking literally, not figuratively, in regards to the Eucharist. He even let them leave Him over this "hard saying," and did not go to them and explain to them that he was speaking symbolically, like he did with other parables that he had to explain (like the parable of the sower and the seed). We also have the writings of the disciples of the apostles,the early Church Fathers, like Iranaeus and Ignatius. These early Church Fathers, many of whom were martyred for the faith at the Colosseum in Rome, were taught what to believe by the apostles. In no case did they ever say that the Eucharist is symbolic; rather, they said that it is indeed the flesh of Jesus Christ. Many Protestants refuse to read their writings, saying proudly that "they aren't biblical". They then pick up and read the writings of Max Lucado and Billy Graham! These early Church Fathers, at the risk of their very lives, handed on the gospels and the epistles to all future generations, before there even was a New Testament, which didn't come about until the late 4th Century. Their writings should at least be read from a historical context. To ignore them is to ignore Church history, which some protestants really believe started in the 16th Century with Martin Luther.
You're a couple of hundred years too late. Jesus introduced paganism into Christianity, not Constantine.
Jewish teachings don't equate the wine in the cup as blood to drink, whether you think it's literal or symbolic. That's pagan to the core.
We are still talking about "worship", and this link Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?will help you understand the meaning of it.What am I looking for?
How does it relate to my last post?
Amen to that!The man Christ Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and men.
You need a Mediator first before someone could make intercession for you. IOW, if no mediator then there is no intercessor between God and you.
IOW, without the Mediating of the Lord Jesus Christ one cannot see God.
We are still talking about "worship", and this link Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?will help you understand the meaning of it.
I had to review the posts. I said you may have had a misplaced devotion. Mary is not worshiped (def I gave from dictionary) as Christ. The dictionary says worship is focused on deities. Catholism doesnt believe Mary is God nor Christ as God. As I said, in America the Churches do not put focus on Mary and no Churchs Mass replace Mary with God.We are still talking about "worship", and this link Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?will help you understand the meaning of it.
Also, what your web site says is true that we venerate Mary (as we call it). It also says there is nothing wrong with respecting her. The web site also going by what people do not what the Church teaches. In Mass we do not go through Mary to get to God. If you go to Mass, watch how who the priest is refering to and biblical passages read. Also, the Eucharist is the core of the Church. The Eucharist is Jesus, Not Mary.We are still talking about "worship", and this link Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?will help you understand the meaning of it.
we respect elders but we don't kneel in front of them.Also, what your web site says is true that we venerate Mary (as we call it). It also says there is nothing wrong with respecting her.
I added more to my post so youd understand.we respect elders but we don't kneel in front of them.
Ac 10:25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.
Ac 10:26 But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”
making rules as you move along is not a bad idea if you are building a new business from the ground up. Rules or examples a Christian should follow were written by the apostles long before the bible was canonized. Some challenged the apostles’ writings and added or adulterate the word of God so they could make their own rules. How do we know a man-made rule compare to the apostles’?I added more to my post so youd understand.
Some people bow, some kneel, some sing, some dance, some pray and so forth. Many folk cultures do this with their elders and deceased elders. If you asked themnif they are worshiped by these methods, many would say no. They understand the difference between respect and worship even if they stand on their head in respect and do jumping jacks in worship. Its from the heart not external appearences. If you felt you were worshiping Mary by praying the rosary, that is against church teachings..so yes, its against scripture. Some people have misplaced devotion. They learned one set of rituals to do things and they dont see the difference until they are much older.
One lady at a Catholi retreat told me she was not allowed to read her bible. She finally had a chance to read it and it "strengthened" her faith. She found out what she was doing were rituals because she had misplaced devotion in them. Sshe said nownshe can worship Christ the way the Church intended not by replacing the rituals with faith but by acting in congregational worship with faith. She also foumd the real meaning of the Eucharist. So it is not a new age mystical experience. Its the mana of life and blood of sacrifice. Her whole perspective of the Church and her participation in Christ life, death, and resurrection changed for the better.
I like that testimony. When you have misplaved devotion, it will lead you away from the Church. Its sad but people prefer different ways to worship Christ.
I've hashed this out already, I guess you haven't read the whole thread here, so I'll summarize. First, the OP doesn't believe Jesus is God...so I totally understand why he would think Mary Mother of God is crazy. But that doctrine is to show that we have the following beliefs.The OP asked, “Mary mother of God”. Base on the bible? That is blasphemy. So, if you are here, in this thread, then, you chose to be here because you want to defend it. .
and....Because He is God? .
making rules as you move along is not a bad idea if you are building a new business from the ground up. Rules or examples a Christian should follow were written by the apostles long before the bible was canonized. Some challenged the apostles’ writings and added or adulterate the word of God so they could make their own rules. How do we know a man-made rule compare to the apostles’?
The Lord Jesus once said to Peter “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men. –Matt 16:23”
The spiritual “things of God” or the right doctrine against “the things of men” or “the doctrine of Satan.”
The Lord Jesus refused “the things of men” or “the doctrine of Satan” and obeyed instead the “things of God”. He refused to become a political opportunist. He would not promote his kingdom by organizing a revolt against the existing political powers or by promising a dole to all who would join his banner.
They, John, James, and Peter and all the disciples, and the Jews, do not have any spiritual understanding from the scriptures/OT before the resurrection, and only after the resurrection of The Lord Jesus did they understand and believe what the scriptures/OT were saying. Read John 2:22
IOW, the apostles were not influence by the Scriptures/OT to believe The Lord’s passion before His crucifixion, burial, and resurrection, only after the resurrection when John and Peter saw the empty tomb did they believe The Lord Jesus’ predictions of His passion and resurrection, and only then did they understand from the Scriptures/OT what The Lord Jesus was telling them in,
Mt 16:21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
And since Peter still has no understanding from the Scriptures/OT
Mt 16:22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”
“Never, Lord” “This shall never happen to you” we need an earthly king to fight the Romans and place me and John or James on your right and left hand side.
Mt 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”
“The things of men” or “The doctrine of Satan” in the mind of Peter, but after the resurrection The Lord Jesus opened their mind to understand the Scriptures/OT.
Lk 24:45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures/OT.
I do believe that God opened my heart to understand the Scriptures, both the OT and the NT.
We could all read and understand any instructions, but if we don’t follow or understand what we are reading, then, what is the sense of reading the instructions in the first place? It’s like building furniture with intricate parts. We have to read the instructions first and follow the steps on how to build furniture with intricate parts. Let’s for example say, we did read the instructions but did not follow it and just started building it, anyway we want, without following the right steps. Do you think you can build it efficiently? No! You may not be able to build it at all, or It would take longer but ends up following the right steps, if it’s not too late.It was my subjective/personal lesson in what constitutes the difference between imagery and idolatry.
That said…if someone still holds an image of God as an old dude in the clouds, I am not saying that is bad or wrong or idolatry…it works for some people. We are all on different journeys.
False! Nothing came from us that were not given to us by God. Please do not give Mary any credit that is due to God alone.4. Mary supplied his human material.(IOW, he didn't "magically poof" into womb)