Mass Assault in Cologne, Mayor blames female victims ?!

[Revoltingest]

This "advice" usually fails to address the disease and only attempts to curb the symptoms, and it does so in a miserably sexist way that more often than not effectively results in blaming women for getting assaulted.

The linked article in the OP is misleading.
From the BBC article, we find.....

Cologne Mayor Henriette Reker said the attacks were "monstrous". "We cannot allow this to become a lawless area," she said, insisting that visitors could not come to the city fearing attack.
German Justice Minister Heiko Maas tweeted that "we won't tolerate these abhorrent assaults on women - all those responsible must be brought to justice".

....which shows that the mayor has a larger view of the situation than claimed.

Just because someone feels like they're being blamed,
doesn't mean someone is actually blaming them. Such
an unfounded accusation is as wrong as blaming a victim.

 

[Thanda]

Except in this case the perpetrators were the drunk ones.

So one arms length distance to someone you don't know during the upcoming Carnival? I am quite sure the people harassed, sexually assaulted or raped tried that on New Years night. The problem is that the perpetrators just came nearer.

You know Reker got elected because she got stabbed by a madman last year. She probably should've just kept her distance...

I'm not here to defend the mayor. I'm not sure whether her advice is useful or not. I simply made a general comment about how unwelcome advice to women about their own safety generally is - and I am making the point that it is ridiculous.

 

[Sunstone]

To Some people, giving women advice on how to keep safe is "victim-blaming". Yet even I, a man, know there are certain areas not to go to at certain times of the night and there are other things one must do in order to avoid being a target.

I agree with you to an extent. The extent being that for both men and women, there are some behaviors that are more risky than others, and common prudence suggests that we should not engage in those behaviors unless we are willing to take the risks. But I don't think that's the real issue here. Instead, I think the issue is the tendency to blame women for crimes committed against them much more quickly and harshly than we blame men for crimes committed against them. In other words, there's a bit of a double standard here, one that is not fair to women, and that most likely even affects their ability to get justice in courts.

 

[Thanda]

The linked article in the OP is misleading.
From the BBC article, we find.....

....which shows that the mayor has a larger view of the situation than claimed.

Just because someone feels like they're being blamed,
doesn't mean someone is actually blaming them. Such
an unfounded accusation is as wrong as blaming a victim.

And I thought we're all agreed yahoo, is not a reliable source for news.

 

[prometheus11]

Was the advice given in order to help prevent FUTURE crimes, or was it mentioned as "advice" the victims should have known prior to the attack?

The linked article does not indicate which.

If the comments were made in order to warn a subgroup of the population to try to stay safe in certain situations, then it can't possibly be "victim blaming." Because potential victims aren't victims.

A determination cannot be made from this article.

 

[Revoltingest]

And I thought we're all agreed yahoo, is not a reliable source for news.

I seldom read Yahoo for news.
(I just use them for email.)
So I had no idea that they published the work of such loopy SJW yahoos.
But reading the article, I did detect the faint whiff of a heavily prejudiced screed.
That sent me looking for other sources.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not here to defend the mayor. I'm not sure whether her advice is useful or not. I simply made a general comment about how unwelcome advice to women about their own safety generally is - and I am making the point that it is ridiculous.

And in this case, the advice is being dispensed by one of their own, a woman who was also assaulted (& nearly died from a knife wound).
One might think that this would give her license to advise, particularly in the context of also exhorting bring the perps to justice.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Many of the refugees (up to 20% according to some statistics) adhere to an ideology that is either that of ISIS or very close to that of ISIS. These people consider themselves invaders in the name of Islam. Non-Muslim women are liable to be taken as sex slaves.

If they espouse the same ideology as ISIS, or something really close to it, then why are they running from it? Probably about 20% may hold a conservative interpretation of Islam, but they pose about the same threat as conservative Christians, and that is to work within the system to use the system against itself and bring about their own personal religious ideology as legal legislation. Neither one is good, and both will needlessly impede, infringe, and limit the rights of certain groups just because of the what the Tanakh/Bible/Quran say.
And why would ISIS, or other groups, bother with the legal and proper way in? It's long, difficult, arduous, and by the time they just make it in years can pass by.

My English is failing me again. Is she blaming them? The article seems to tell she's calling for spreading awareness and prevention measures like watching out for suspicious people. Seems like a general advice to me. Unless I missed something? I mean, it could be a good idea that anyone would not just stick on people or pick a fight with drunkards.

It doesn't seem like it. But do consider that Yahoo! "news" is very poor quality news. Usually, however, when someone is trying to tell women how to be safe, they are placing sole responsibility at the hands of the victims, and totally displacing it from the attacker, who is never told to ignore their urges to attack, or how to take their minds off of their urge to attack, but it's always up to the woman who must act and dress a certain way to avoid being attacked (which won't help in most circumstances anyways), and never up to the one who had to make the conscious decision to attack.

 

[Thanda]

I agree with you to an extent. The extent being that for both men and women, there are some behaviors that are more risky than others, and common prudence suggests that we should not engage in those behaviors unless we are willing to take the risks. But I don't think that's the real issue here. Instead, I think the issue is the tendency to blame women for crimes committed against them much more quickly and harshly than we blame men for crimes committed against them. In other words, there's a bit of a double standard here, one that is not fair to women, and that most likely even affects their ability to get justice in courts.

I think the main problem is with perceptions comes at the police stations. Police tend to screen victims. Whether it is telling people reporting a missing person not to worry about ("He'll turn up soon") or a domestic violence incident ("It's a family matter") when all they should be doing is their jobs. But that can be addressed and is a separate subject from the matter of advising women on how to be more careful for their safety.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Except the mayor wasn't addressing those women was she? She was addressing the city so as to help others avoid a similar circumstance. E.g. Right after a high-jacking police will often use that time to remind motorists to be aware always be alert and aware of what is happening around them - is this, to you, victim blaming?

I'm just quite skeptical of such "preventive measures" because they are often cited as reasons to fault the victims for being assaulted. I don't know if the mayor intended to do that, but her intentions don't affect my skepticism.

 

[Thanda]

It doesn't seem like it. But do consider that Yahoo! "news" is very poor quality news. Usually, however, when someone is trying to tell women how to be safe, they are placing sole responsibility at the hands of the victims, and totally displacing it from the attacker, who is never told to ignore their urges to attack, or how to take their minds off of their urge to attack, but it's always up to the woman who must act and dress a certain way to avoid being attacked (which won't help in most circumstances anyways), and never up to the one who had to make the conscious decision to attack.

You're right, the perpetrator is usually not told to hold his urges - he is usually arrested and prosecuted. And actions tend to speak louder than words.

 

[prometheus11]

City mayor:

Currently, there's a group of thugs robbing truck drivers. They look for pick ups with open beds and unlocked service vehicles, and they take all the tools. From sanders and drills to screw drivers and hammers to welders and cement mixers. We advise any truck drivers who carry tools to be careful and lock up your valuables until we can apprehend this gang.

Victim blaming?

 

[Debater Slayer]

The linked article in the OP is misleading.
From the BBC article, we find.....

....which shows that the mayor has a larger view of the situation than claimed.

Just because someone feels like they're being blamed,
doesn't mean someone is actually blaming them.

As I said, I don't know what the mayor's intentions are, but the above is exactly what a lot of people say when they want to deny that the victim is being blamed even when they are actually engaging in victim-blaming. Not saying that you are doing this yourself, but some of the arguments used here are quite similar to the usual victim-blaming rhetoric.

Such
an unfounded accusation is as wrong as blaming a victim.

When it is unfounded, that is.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Except in this case the perpetrators were the drunk ones.

So one arms length distance to someone you don't know during the upcoming Carnival? I am quite sure the people harassed, sexually assaulted or raped tried that on New Years night. The problem is that the perpetrators just came nearer.

You know Reker got elected because she got stabbed by a madman last year. She probably should've just kept her distance...

Preach it!

 

[Revoltingest]

As I said, I don't know what the mayor's intentions are, but the above is exactly what a lot of people say when they want to deny that the victim is being blamed even when they are actually engaging in victim-blaming. Not saying that you are doing this yourself, but some of the arguments used here are quite similar to the usual victim-blaming rhetoric.

This sounds like criticism just based upon one thing superficially resembling another.
Without knowing the mayor's motive, why pounce prejudicially?

Some people hear only what they want to here.
In this case, it seems they only hear what they don't want to hear.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This sounds like criticism just based upon one thing superficially resembling another.
Without knowing the mayor's motive, why pounce prejudicially?

Because even if she is well-meaning, that doesn't change her words.

 

[Revoltingest]

OK....I must admit something.
I'm enjoying the irony of it all.

The mayor, a woman, survived a deadly assault.
She advises other women on avoiding assault.
(She also intends to bring the perps to justice.)
And men are leaping forward to scold her for blaming women.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're right, the perpetrator is usually not told to hold his urges - he is usually arrested and prosecuted. And actions tend to speak louder than words.

Most rapes (60% - 80% depending on the source) are never reported and most rapists (up to 98%) will never spend a single day in jail or prison.

 

[Revoltingest]

Because even if she is well-meaning, that doesn't change her words.

That's true of everything said by everyone, so your meaning is unclear.

What did she say, & why is it so wrong?
How is it your place to tell one woman what she is allowed to say to other women?

 

[Thanda]

Most rapes (60% - 80% depending on the source) are never reported and most rapists (up to 98%) will never spend a single day in jail or prison.

The not reporting is obviously means the police can do nothing. The not being arrested has a lot to do with the lack of evidence that usually characterizes rape - as well as other crimes: if someone robs me of my phone in a dark alley and sells it I will have a very hard time getting them arrested as there will be no evidence other than my own word.