Mass Assault in Cologne, Mayor blames female victims ?!

[Crypto2015]

If they espouse the same ideology as ISIS, or something really close to it, then why are they running from it? Probably about 20% may hold a conservative interpretation of Islam, but they pose about the same threat as conservative Christians, and that is to work within the system to use the system against itself and bring about their own personal religious ideology as legal legislation. Neither one is good, and both will needlessly impede, infringe, and limit the rights of certain groups just because of the what the Tanakh/Bible/Quran say.
And why would ISIS, or other groups, bother with the legal and proper way in? It's long, difficult, arduous, and by the time they just make it in years can pass by.

It doesn't seem like it. But do consider that Yahoo! "news" is very poor quality news. Usually, however, when someone is trying to tell women how to be safe, they are placing sole responsibility at the hands of the victims, and totally displacing it from the attacker, who is never told to ignore their urges to attack, or how to take their minds off of their urge to attack, but it's always up to the woman who must act and dress a certain way to avoid being attacked (which won't help in most circumstances anyways), and never up to the one who had to make the conscious decision to attack.

Who says that they are running from ISIS? ISIS said that they were going to send undercover operatives among the refugees. To think that conservative Islam is not more dangerous than conservative Christianity is ridiculous. When was the last time that 1000 conservative Christians sexually assaulted about 100 women in a train station? Give me a break.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually men suffer the same.
The difference is that women get sexually assaulted or raped while men end up in hospital.

And her suggestion has no merit. Her suggestion is for Carnival next month. Just Google Cologne Carnival and look at some Videos, Pictures and think about the advise of an arms length distance again.(Americans might also realise that personal space is different in Germanic Countries)
And before actual Carnival is Weiberfastnacht which doesn't even have an English Wiki article but is apparently somewhat known as Fat Thursday. Its an essential female holiday in the Rhineland, aka in Cologne.
The entire idea of Weiberfastnacht is to have a fun girls day without a male escort which couldn't help either way.

I see merit in general, not for a specific celebratory venue.
But she should've consulted me first, to devise a better plan.

If I ever visit Germany, I sure won't be wear'n me kilt!

 

[Smart_Guy]

Expect fast growth of far right groups with increased public support in Germany. In Finland some far right groups have started patrolling streets for "public safety" after news like this. This could go wrong quickly.

The world is starting to have a religious police just KSA does

 

[Smart_Guy]

To Some people, giving women advice on how to keep safe is "victim-blaming". Yet even I, a man, know there are certain areas not to go to at certain times of the night and there are other things one must do in order to avoid being a target.

I agree with your basic idea which applies to all people.

I guess it is the way the advice is presented. We have to be careful in how we advise people so it does not back fire. I see even some men advising each other here fighting back saying things like "you think I'm a child to advise me"? Silly men

I guess it is also the way the advised target sees the advice.

 

[Flankerl]

@4consideration

I have no idea if it's victim blaming. Can someone post the exact sentence(s) that demonstrate the victim blaming?

"Na ja es ist immer eine Möglichkeit eine gewisse Distanz zu halten, die länger als eine Armlänge betrifft. Also von sich aus schon keine große Nähe zu suchen zu Menschen die einem Fremd sind zu denen man kein großes Vertrauensverhältnis hat.
Aber es gibt viele andere Möglichkeiten, sich in Gruppen zusammen zu finden, sich nicht trennen zu lassen, auch nicht in Feierlaune zu sagen "Ich gehe mal mit diesen oder jenen mit", sondern in der Gruppe in der man losgegangen ist zu bleiben."

"Well there is always the possibility to hold a general distance, which is longer than one arms length. To not seek a greater closeness with people you don't know, with whom you don't have a relationship of trust.
But there are many other possibilities(to be safe), to be in a group of people(you know), not to be seperated from each other, not even in a celebratory mood to say "I am going to accompany these or these people", but to stay within the group with the people you know."

More or less it says that.

The thing is that this wouldn't have helped that night.
- the victims weren't seeking closeness to the perpetrators, the perpetrators did
- the victims weren't leaving their groups, the groups of the perpetrators were just vastly bigger

And I saw the Videos from that night in Cologne, all you hear is French and Arabic interchangeably and black haired darker skinned men. Which is probably just a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge coincidence.

 

[4consideration]

Thanks, @Flankerl.

I agree that advice would not have been likely to help in a crowded public place, like the night this happened.

 

[YmirGF]

I agree with your basic idea which applies to all people.

I guess it is the way the advice is presented. We have to be careful in how we advise people so it does not back fire. I see even some men advising each other here fighting back saying things like "you think I'm a child to advise me"? Silly men

I guess it is also the way the advised target sees the advice.

At the same time, Smart_Dude, it is more than a bit unseemly to warn women to be more responsible without clearly identifying the problem that created the need for the warning. I guess, "Beware of roving packs of refuge Muslim males" wasn't something they wanted to tell the public given the politician's broad acceptance of welcoming them to their counties to begin with. You can imagine the media photo-op...

"Hello..."
"About all those young virile male refugees that we have brought in with open arms. If you are a young woman, you really might want to actively avoid direct contact with these fine fellows if you are out without a male or police escort."

 

[prometheus11]

@4consideration


"Na ja es ist immer eine Möglichkeit eine gewisse Distanz zu halten, die länger als eine Armlänge betrifft. Also von sich aus schon keine große Nähe zu suchen zu Menschen die einem Fremd sind zu denen man kein großes Vertrauensverhältnis hat.
Aber es gibt viele andere Möglichkeiten, sich in Gruppen zusammen zu finden, sich nicht trennen zu lassen, auch nicht in Feierlaune zu sagen "Ich gehe mal mit diesen oder jenen mit", sondern in der Gruppe in der man losgegangen ist zu bleiben."

"Well there is always the possibility to hold a general distance, which is longer than one arms length. To not seek a greater closeness with people you don't know, with whom you don't have a relationship of trust.
But there are many other possibilities(to be safe), to be in a group of people(you know), not to be seperated from each other, not even in a celebratory mood to say "I am going to accompany these or these people", but to stay within the group with the people you know."

More or less it says that.

The thing is that this wouldn't have helped that night.
- the victims weren't seeking closeness to the perpetrators, the perpetrators did
- the victims weren't leaving their groups, the groups of the perpetrators were just vastly bigger

And I saw the Videos from that night in Cologne, all you hear is French and Arabic interchangeably and black haired darker skinned men. Which is probably just a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge coincidence.

I don't see victim blaming because she's not referring to the victims in that warning.

I see a warning so that others don't become victims.

Whether or not her comments were insensitive is s separate issue.

Did you happen to read my second post that provided an analogy with truck drivers and tool theft?

 

[Flankerl]

Thanks, @Flankerl.

I agree that advice would not have been likely to help in a crowded public place, like the night this happened.

It can't help you anywhere in a city.
How to take public transportation while keeping an arms length to strangers? How to walk on the pavement? Its simply impossible.

Especially since the perpetrators are acting in a group and seek you out.

I don't see victim blaming because she's not referring to the victims in that warning.

I see a warning so that others don't become victims.

Whether or not her comments were insensitive is s separate issue.

Did you happen to read my second post that provided an analogy with truck drivers and tool theft?

Last year she was stabbed by a madman.
Probably should've just kept her distance.

All I got to say about that.

 

[Flankerl]

At the same time, Smart_Dude, it is more than a bit unseemly to warn women to be more responsible without clearly identifying the problem that created the need for the warning. I guess, "Beware of roving packs of refuge Muslim males" wasn't something they wanted to tell the public given the politician's broad acceptance of welcoming them to their counties to begin with. You can imagine the media photo-op...

"Hello..."
"About all those young virile male refugees that we have brought in with open arms. If you are a young woman, you really might want to actively avoid direct contact with these fine fellows if you are out without a male or police escort."

Well the perpetrators in question have been active since 2014, so they most probably aren't arrivals from last year.
But North Africans don't grow on trees in Cologne.

On top of the that the official police report of that night says: Peaceful night.
Victims were send away by police officers.

3 years ago there was a huge Sexism scandal in which the 3rd wave feminists ran rampant about an old politician being a sleazy old guy towards a younger female journalists.
They are quite... silent at the moment.

 

[Revoltingest]

It can't help you anywhere in a city.
How to take public transportation while keeping an arms length to strangers? How to walk on the pavement? Its simply impossible.

Especially since the perpetrators are acting in a group and seek you out.

Is the question about the efficacy of the advice,
or about whether any advice should be given at all?

 

[Smart_Guy]

At the same time, Smart_Dude, it is more than a bit unseemly to warn women to be more responsible without clearly identifying the problem that created the need for the warning. I guess, "Beware of roving packs of refuge Muslim males" wasn't something they wanted to tell the public given the politician's broad acceptance of welcoming them to their counties to begin with. You can imagine the media photo-op...

"Hello..."
"About all those young virile male refugees that we have brought in with open arms. If you are a young woman, you really might want to actively avoid direct contact with these fine fellows if you are out without a male or police escort."

Wait, refugees were involved?

 

[prometheus11]

Last year she was stabbed by a madman.
Probably should've just kept her distance.

All I got to say about that.

She wasn't talking about victims, she was warning people about the possibility of BECOMING victims.

Her words might be the most insensitive ever spoken in the history of our species causing millions to have instantaneous heart attacks and die form merely hearing them, but insensitive speech is not equivalent to "victim blaming."

.....

Your comment above is victim blaming because you're describing what the victim "should have done" to avoid being attacked.

Her statement is for people with the potential to BECOME victims. Her statement was not targeted at victims.

 

[4consideration]

It can't help you anywhere in a city.
How to take public transportation while keeping an arms length to strangers? How to walk on the pavement? Its simply impossible.

Especially since the perpetrators are acting in a group and seek you out.

I think your point is well made.

I think the government needs to take action against the perpetrators.

I don't think her advice is particularly helpful. I do see a difference between offering advice, whether helpful or not, and blaming the victim.

Since "blaming the victim" was the subject of the OP, I have to answer the OP that so far, I think: no, the mayor does not appear to be blaming the victim -- at least not from the statements I've seen.

 

[prometheus11]

City mayor:

Currently, there's a group of thugs robbing truck drivers. They look for pick ups with open beds and unlocked service vehicles, and they take all the tools. From sanders and drills to screw drivers and hammers to welders and cement mixers. We advise any truck drivers who carry tools to be careful and lock up your valuables until we can apprehend this gang.

Victim blaming?

I ask again.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Thanks for removing all doubt about the mayor's words, @Flankerl.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised that a mayor in a country as developed as Germany is saying this garbage that we commonly hear in third-world countries. All the more evidence that sexism exists pretty much everywhere.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Well the perpetrators in question have been active since 2014, so they most probably aren't arrivals from last year.
But North Africans don't grow on trees in Cologne.

On top of the that the official police report of that night says: Peaceful night.
Victims were send away by police officers.

3 years ago there was a huge Sexism scandal in which the 3rd wave feminists ran rampant about an old politician being a sleazy old guy towards a younger female journalists.
They are quite... silent at the moment.

*taps mic*

Is this thing on...?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Apparently women in Cologne are now being advised to follow a "code of conduct":

http://news.yahoo.com/mayor-cologne-just-blamed-hundreds-011347213.html

Anyone want to defend the mayor's statement?

I find it interesting that when the liberal ideologies of feminism and cultural acceptance come into conflict, it's feminism which always suffers.

 

[columbus]

Especially since the perpetrators are acting in a group and seek you out.

It seems to me that this should make it easier to put a stop to the problems.
Send out a batch of plain clothed officers with hidden video cams. If you catch only one, but have pics of his friends, you can get a lot done. Threaten him with prison, unless he helps find them.
This is not necessarily something I would advertise to the public.
Tom

 

[prometheus11]

In other news, today....giving bad advice to citizens is now equivalent to "victim blaming."

Now over to John for the weather, where he's going to mock you for not carrying your umbrella yesterday by not talking about umbrellas at all but instead describing a storm system coming in this weekend.