Mass Assault in Cologne, Mayor blames female victims ?!

[Debater Slayer]

I don't buy that. She wasn't talking about what the victims SHOULD HAVE done. She's warming others for the future. If the assailants were attacking people with blonde hair, she would address those CITIZENS with blonde hair.

She wasn't addressing the victims. She was SPECIFICALLY addressing all non victims.

I'm not addressing the rationality of her warning. Perhaps it is horribly sexist and she should be crucified for it.

I see it as implying that women who don't follow her proposed "code of conduct" are at fault for getting assaulted.

Are you now seriously telling me that no advice shout be given to people to help reduce their chances of a stroke? Now I've heard it all!

After-the-fact "advice" usually amounts to blaming the victim, be it implicitly or explicitly.

 

[prometheus11]

I see it as implying that women who don't follow her proposed "code of conduct" are at fault for getting assaulted.

Why?

After-the-fact "advice" usually amounts to blaming the victim, be it implicitly or explicitly.

No.

Perhaps if her word choice indicated such an implicitness, but it doesn't. I really don't see how anyone who reads her precise words can accuse her of more than insensitivity. I compare her advise to my analogy of the truck drivers/tool thieves in my previous post.

 

[Sunstone]

I think the main problem is with perceptions comes at the police stations. Police tend to screen victims. Whether it is telling people reporting a missing person not to worry about ("He'll turn up soon") or a domestic violence incident ("It's a family matter") when all they should be doing is their jobs. But that can be addressed and is a separate subject from the matter of advising women on how to be more careful for their safety.

You're kidding, right? The problem is mainly just "a police matter"? Just curious, but in what paradise do you live in which blaming women for being victims is limited to just the police? I want to know because it can't be America.

In American, woman after woman after woman after woman testifies to the common fact that after she was raped, molested, or otherwise assaulted, the people she told about it quite often blamed her for what had happened to her and/or made excuses for her assailant. e.g. this is not just a problem with the police. But you don't hear men complain about the same kind of treatment nearly so often as women. There is a double standard -- and that is the least of the problem.

 

[Thanda]

After-the-fact "advice" usually amounts to blaming the victim, be it implicitly or explicitly.

I think you guys are purposely misunderstanding. The lady (or guy?) who did the interpretation for us made it clear the mayor was not giving advice to the victims of the rape. Apparently there is a carnival coming up and she was giving advice about safety during that event.

So she is not giving advice after the event, she is clearly giving it before.

 

[Thanda]

But you don't hear men complain about the same kind of treatment nearly so often as women

Indeed. It is generally known that men don't complain nearly so often as women.

 

[prometheus11]

You're kidding, right? The problem is mainly just "a police matter"? Just curious, but in what paradise do you live in which blaming women for being victims is limited to just the police? I want to know because it can't be America.

In American, woman after woman after woman after woman testifies to the common fact that after she was raped, molested, or otherwise assaulted, the people she told about it quite often blamed her for what had happened to her and/or made excuses for her assailant. e.g. this is not just a problem with the police. But you don't hear men complain about the same kind of treatment nearly so often as women. There is a double standard -- and that is the least of the problem.

In this case, nobody is blaming the victims.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think you guys are purposely misunderstanding. The lady (or guy?) who did the interpretation for us made it clear the mayor was not giving advice to the victims of the rape. Apparently there is a carnival coming up and she was giving advice about safety during that event.

So she is not giving advice after the event, she is clearly giving it before.

She is giving advice about a situation similar to one that recently ended with sexual assault of tens of women by men who got close to the victims and not vice versa.

The mayor is sexist, insensitive, ignorant, or all of the previous. Her "advice" is downright idiotic and borders on rape apologetics.

 

[Crypto2015]

I think you guys are purposely misunderstanding. The lady (or guy?) who did the interpretation for us made it clear the mayor was not giving advice to the victims of the rape. Apparently there is a carnival coming up and she was giving advice about safety during that event.

So she is not giving advice after the event, she is clearly giving it before.

Yes, you are right, but by telling the women to cover themselves she is contributing to the enforcement of Sharia law. That's what all of this is about. I am sure that those men did what they did because they wanted Germany and its populace to live under Sharia and that includes Sharia's dressing codes.

 

[Sunstone]

Yes. It'd be stroke-victim-blaming. /sarcasm.

Gee, I bet you even believe, from your head all the way down to your toes, that you actually understood what Mystic was saying. But if I was inflicted with your lack of reading comprehension, I'd give up all hope and shoot myself.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Indeed. It is generally known that men don't complain nearly so often as women.

Are you serious?

No wonder you are defending the mayor and her statements.

 

[Thanda]

Yes, you are right, but by telling the women to cover themselves she is contributing to the enforcement of Sharia law. That's what all of this is about. I am sure that those men did what they did because they wanted Germany and its populace to live under Sharia and that includes Sharia's dressing codes.

In which part of her speech did she tell women to cover themselves (Though I must say I would be happy if women did cover themselves more than they currently do).

 

[Revoltingest]

That's irrelevant, IMO. She was speaking SPECIFICALLY to people who were not victims. People will misinterpret the word "potato," but that's not the fault of the tv chef.

I'd say it's relevant because of how the victims would react, even if they're in error about the mayor's intent.

 

[Debater Slayer]

(Though I must say I would be happy if women did cover themselves more than they currently do).

And finally, here it is, folks: clear evidence that sexism and a desire to control women usually underlie sexual assault "preventive measures."

I think my job here is pretty much done. Thanks for making this easy.

 

[Thanda]

Are you serious?

No wonder you are defending the mayor and her statements.

Yes I am. Women are not the only victims of injustices. Making an assumption that men don't suffer questions about their behaviour when they are victims simply because "you don't hear men complain about the same kind of treatment nearly so often as women" is merely confirmation bias. What makes you think there should be a relationship between how often something happens and how often people complain about it. That would be like a policeman saying -"Ah, well there aren't that many rapes because we don't get many reports about them". There may be other reasons why people are not reporting, complaining or you not hearing them complain about crimes - and that reason may not be because they are not happening.

 

[Crypto2015]

In which part of her speech did she tell women to cover themselves (Though I must say I would be happy if women did cover themselves more than they currently do).

Yes, you are right. She didn't say that. My bad.

 

[Sunstone]

Indeed. It is generally known that men don't complain nearly so often as women.

No, men just get angry and then sometimes start throwing things around, start beating up people who can be beaten up, and maybe even go on a mass shooting spree. But, thank goodness, at least they don't take out their anger by complaining.

 

[Thanda]

And finally, here it is, folks: clear evidence that sexism and a desire to control women usually underlie sexual assault "preventive measures."

I think my job here is pretty much done. Thanks for making this easy.

Yes I'm sure you love this. Yes I would be happy if they covered themselves more. And I heard many women say they would be happy if men didn't wear their pants so low or if they didn't walk around exposing their arms. We all have our preferences - I never said anyone should be forced to adhere to them.

 

[Thanda]

No, men just get angry and then sometimes start throwing things around, start beating up people who can be beaten up, and maybe even go on a mass shooting spree. But, thank goodness, at least they don't take out their anger by complaining.

At least you understand.

 

[Revoltingest]

Indeed. It is generally known that men don't complain nearly so often as women.

Your post really offends me!
I can barely contain my ready to boil over anger!
<chair thrown thru window>
<caviar can thrown thru 180" TV>
And now I have this sharp pain in my.....

== MODERATOR NOTICE ==
We just had to cut this guy off.
We're sure you were tired of it too.

 

[prometheus11]

She is giving advice about a situation similar to one that recently ended with sexual assault of tens of women by men who got close to the victims and not vice versa.

The mayor is sexist, insensitive, ignorant, or all of the previous. Her "advice" is downright idiotic and borders on rape apologetics.

Perhaps. I believe a more thorough investigation of her views would show she is not nearly so sexist, insensitive, nor ignorant, and that she was trying her best to stop "truck drivers" from having their "tools robbed" until they catch the perps.

Your accusations of idiocy and "rape apologetics" seems shrill and needlessly melodramatic.

Regardless, she didn't blame any victims. That much is clear.