Mass Assault in Cologne, Mayor blames female victims ?!

[Jumi]

I've ALWAYS sad it was bad advice. Bad advice is not victim blaming.

And?

I have also said that nobody should ever give any advice to citizens about future hazards because now a days, apparently, trying to warn people about danger is accusing past victims of past crimes.

Apparently you see this fear of yours when you read my posts, why is that?

No more classes on self defense. That'd be blaming past victims for not learning self defense.

I'm all for self defense and one solution proposed by me is guns. Have you read my posts yet?

 

[prometheus11]

I think we're reading different threads if this is your straight up view.

People on this thread are expressing the opinion that nobody should give advice on how citizens might be slightly safer because of a current threat in a city. Because that implies that PRIOR victims somehow "deserved it" for not protecting themselves. A preposterous notion.

In this case, a public official answered a reporter's question. She made the mistake of remembering and reciting a policy of her city. How horrible?!?!

In a post a while ago, I asked what warning the mayor should have given. NOT ONE PERSON REPLIED.

 

[prometheus11]

And?

And it's not victim blaming.

Apparently you see this fear of yours when you read my posts, why is that?

Incorrect.

I'm all for self defense and one solution proposed by me is guns. Have you read my posts yet?

Yes, I've read all the posts on this thread.

Why would you blame past victims by recommending something concerning self defense on future possible crimes?

 

[Jumi]

City policy it is not. Media is partly to blame for reporting her as giving bad advice that works in favor of perps and as Mystic said repeating rape myths. I'm not fond of emotional reaction or exaggerations in either direction. If you read my posts I'm hoping this will be clear.

 

[prometheus11]

I'm just wondering how Mystic is not a victim blamer then (is it because she was once a victim? - like how some believe being black means you can't be racist against other blacks perhaps?)

Some people should never be questioned because they're always right no matter if they behave in ways contrary to their rash statements. Quite a dogma isn't it?

 

[prometheus11]

City policy it is not. Media is partly to blame for reporting her as giving bad advice that works in favor of perps and as Mystic said repeating rape myths. I'm not fond of emotional reaction or exaggerations in either direction. If you read my posts I'm hoping this will be clear.

The mayor referred to a policy in place that was written long before this event. Her moral crime was remembering it and using it to answer a reporters question.

Not one person has posted what the mayor should have said to warn citizens. They have only misinterpreted her words to nonvictims.

Would you care to suggest what the mayor should have said to warn citizens about the criminal element that can't be construed as "victim blaming?"

 

[Jumi]

And it's not victim blaming.

To be honest it seems I don't know all the importance you folks are putting on this part.

From what I've gathered in the original news reports it seemed like she was well meaning, but harmfully ignorant.

Incorrect.

Well you see something in my posts that's not there, because you repeatedly want to discuss things I haven't argued.

Yes, I've read all the posts on this thread

Perhaps looking to jab at the right spots, but missing the left hook that came out of your field of vision? That stuff happens, no harm done.

Why would you blame past victims by recommending something concerning self defense on future possible crimes?

You've misread me despite my well meaning intentions.

 

[prometheus11]

To be honest it seems I don't know all the importance you folks are putting on this part.

From what I've gathered in the original news reports it seemed like she was well meaning, but harmfully ignorant.

Perfect!

(This thread was created to discuss the idea that the mayor's words were "victim blaming").

Well you see something in my posts that's not there, because you repeatedly want to discuss things I haven't argued.

Sorry. That's a result of absurdities being posted about warnings to citizens about future possibilities being victim blaming for past events. ...and a lack of clarity in some of your posts.

You've misread me despite my well meaning intentions.

Where?

 

[Jumi]

Sorry. That's a result of absurdities being posted about warnings to citizens about future possibilities being victim blaming for past events. ...and a lack of clarity in some of your posts.

You've not been very helpful yourself with those feints and jabs.

Where?

Apparently trying to discuss the advice is blaming all advice.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, actually, when a male espouses sexist views, sometimes I do consider it pointless to talk to him. As I mentioned earlier, I'm generally more willing to discuss women's rights with women who disagree with me than with men who do so. That is because most men I have encountered who oppose women's rights do that because they want to have authority over women. I'm quite sick of that chauvinistic mentality. If they want to mansplain (yes, I said it) something to argue that they should have authority over women, they can talk to those like them. I see little point in wasting my time with them.

To elaborate on why one has a sexist (anti-male) attitude does not defeat the fact that it is sexist.
An advantage of taking an neutral approach is that one needn't know the gender of another poster.
I regularly get this wrong cuz to me a person on RF is what one posts....not genitalia at a keyboard.

Edit:
Ew....I hadn't fully considered how that last sentence would look.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've come across another article where the mayor addresses how what was said in the press conference was reported. What she says here does seem in keeping with what it appeared to me when I had found a translation of part of that original press conference -- that she seemed to answering a specific question from a journalist when she referenced what woman could do.
"The condensed statement presented in some media created the impression that my prevention initiatives were restricted exclusively to a code of conduct for women and girls. Nothing could be further from the truth. On the contrary, in response to a specific question asked by a journalist, I tried to refer to a range of prevention and counselling services that have been in place in Cologne for a number of years. Just one example is the campaign "Party safety for young women" (www.mach-party-safe.de). I regret that this representation might have been misleading.
I repeat: a code of conduct can only be of subordinate importance. Establishing security on our streets and in public areas has absolute priority."
http://www.stadt-koeln.de/politik-u...ment-colognes-mayor-henriette?utm_source=RSS&

Too bad it's in a language not my own....that makes it difficult to explore what happened.
Seeing your post, it makes me think....dang, that's what I should be trying to do.
We might've avoided all this drama if we had a clearer picture of what happened.
You earned a foot rub.....for each one!

 

[prometheus11]

You've not been very helpful yourself with those feints and jabs.

You have the right to your perception.

Apparently trying to discuss the advice is blaming all advice.

What? Again, you're being unclear.

People are being blamed for providing advice on self protection. Nobody is "blaming advice."

I'm saying that those expressing the opinion that the mayor was victim blaming have to take the stance that all advice on self protection is victim blaming.

 

[ShivaFan]

Thank you for this post. The facts on the ground are:

* Most of the rapefugees are African Somalis, many have HIV. Never mind the Muslim thing, these Somalies are mostly thugs, believe me we have seen them here and form gangs and are criminals. But keep in mind most of the ISIS types recruited are also criminals, outcases, shamed homosexuals, child molesters, drug addicts, rapists and such who the "leaders" also want to kill off along with the infidels and so they "kill two birds with one stone" if they get them to "martyr" themself as "redeemed" but the "leaders" just want to kill the scum. I laugh when I hear idiots say, "the lone wolf has a criminal record so this hasn't anything to do with Radical Islam" - practically ALL the ISIS etc. suicidal sammies be it from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, America, etc. have criminal records, you should be surprised if they don't. But the Somali thugs from Africa USE Islam as the excuse to rape "infidels", but they will rape for rape sake because they never go to any mosque and such but say "Praise Allah" while drinking gin.

* A couple of these rapefugees are Afghans and a lot are Pakistani. Sort of the same story.

* 120 German women were assaulted or raped by the rapefugees. The Merkel government is censoring the truth. We get some of the truth here in the US but Reuters calls the rapefugees "mobs of men" while the German government calls them "some foreigners". They are mostly black Somalis with HIV.

* Don't want them here. Screw Obama, please, not the regular folks, let them drink on the White House lawn and assault his family, not us.

 

[Jumi]

I'm saying that those expressing the opinion that the mayor was victim blaming have to take the stance that all advice on self protection is victim blaming.

Apparently disagreeing with something you said and agreeing with Mystic made me part of the thing you are fighting against.

 

[prometheus11]

Apparently disagreeing with something you said and agreeing with Mystic made me part of the thing you are fighting against.

I've only had your words to address.

Do you want to point to a specific post or sentence?

What do you think I'm "fighting against?"

 

[Debater Slayer]

To elaborate on why one has a sexist (anti-male) attitude does not defeat the fact that it is sexist.
An advantage of taking an neutral approach is that one needn't know the gender of another poster.
I regularly get this wrong cuz to me a person on RF is what one posts....not genitalia at a keyboard.

Edit:
Ew....I hadn't fully considered how that last sentence would look.

Wait... you really think I'm anti-male?

 

[Revoltingest]

Wait... you really think I'm anti-male?

I'm describing the attitude of the post, one which expresses disparate treatment based upon gender.
I wouldn't generalize the post in question to say you're anti-male.

 

[Debater Slayer]

More mayor ridiculousness:

On Monday Van der Laan was asked about the mass sexual assaults in Cologne, Germany over New Year’s in an interview on Radio 1. One of the questions was whether he thinks something like that could happen in Amsterdam.

The mayor replied: “As mayor I hope to be able to say: at least not on that scale. Amsterdammers don’t like to hear it, but I find them much too nice for that.” the mayor said. “I think that in Amsterdam it is quite obvious that you should be nice to each other and that we set boundaries.”

Source: http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/01/13/amsterdam-mayor-defends-comments-about-cologne-sex-assaults/

Amazing that such things are said by authorities in developed countries.

 

[Underhill]

Pointing out that the victim should or shouldn't have done X or Y instead of focusing on the perpetrator of the crime does amount to victim-blaming. It's like saying, "Yes, I know you got assaulted by a violent criminal, but you are at fault for not avoiding him in the first place."

That makes no sense. There is nothing wrong with asking people to act sensibly. That is not victim blaming, it is asking people to be aware and act sensibly as a result. It is no different than advising they wear a coat on a cold night or watch out for drunk drivers on a late night drive home.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

That makes no sense. There is nothing wrong with asking people to act sensibly. That is not victim blaming, it is asking people to be aware and act sensibly as a result. It is no different than advising they wear a coat on a cold night or watch out for drunk drivers on a late night drive home.

Survivors were not acting stupid or unaware. Acting sensibly is something that the vast majority of the time we were already doing shortly before being attacked. It did NOT help.

I'd love to have people list out their trauma and be subjected to this patronizing bull**** that I see in this thread about how they just needed to act sensibly to avoid their attempted murder or something similar.