Mass deportations to the East

[croak]

What about Irish travellers? to compare the relatively small numbers to what is going on in France is not really fair


its numbers isn't it i know we couldnt handle the kind of numbers France is dealing with.

To go back to what I quoted (emphasis mine):

i dont know that a nomadic lifestyle can be integrated into the uk well not in such huge numbers anyway.

It seems that a nomadic lifestyle can be integrated into the UK, with the example of Irish Travellers (then again, they're one of the "most discriminated against ethnic groups". As for the part about numbers, according to Wikipedia: "Recent estimates number both Roma Gypsies and Irish Travellers together at 300,000, and are based on local government caravan counts". Definitely not as big as the populations in France, but then again, France is larger in size, for one.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller#cite_note-8

 

[Alceste]

well the Cornish unemployed all have degrees and will only work in offices? i knew it was a different world down there.


Foreign fruit pickers are taking home as little as £45 a week at a company which provides some of Britain's largest supermarkets with thousands of tonnes of fruit, an investigation by The Independent has found.

Revealed: Scandal of Britain's fruit-farm workers - Home News, UK - The Independent


Krystyna collapsed on to a freshly-cut furrow, rolled a cigarette and sighed. Lured to England with the promise of a nonexistent job and ripped off by a criminal gang, the young Pole had despaired of finding work until she got this job on a Norfolk farm.

Earning less than £20 a day and working illegally, she still considered herself lucky. That day, she was one of five illegal workers hacking away at pungent coriander, mint and fenugreek. On other days, there were many more.

Britain's illegal farm workers | News



Overworked, underpaid, and over here’ expresses concern that whilst overseas workers are toiling for long hours, often for very little pay, and housed in appalling conditions, in almost every case, the employers taking advantage of their vulnerability and poor command of English escape punishment. It calls on the UK government to help improve the conditions of migrant workers by signing the UN Convention on the Rights of Migrant Workers and their Families.

Trades Union Congress - Migrant workers - overworked, underpaid and over here

A recent Guardian leader raised the issue of ‘unheard workers’ in the UK who are suffering under abhorrent conditions working for agencies in industries such as agriculture and food packing. The leader states that, in direct contrast to the issues of foreign sweatshops and labour standards in the garment industry, the issues in our own back yards, or indeed homes and offices, remain unnoticed and under-prioritised.

Migrant Workers in the UK


Jobless migrants living in shanty towns offered free flights home

Jobless migrants living in shanty towns offered free flights home | UK news | The Observer




yep those Cornish youngsters must really envy those migrant workers, who wouldn't want to enter the murky world of the low paid migrant worker huh? and if you don't fancy spud picking there's always domestic work on offer.


Many migrant workers in UK are modern-day slaves, say investigators


Channel 4’s Dispatches says thousands of migrant workers endure sexual, physical and psychological abuse from employers : womensgrid

Migrant workers in UK suffering 'modern-day slavery' | UK news | The Guardian


Abuse of UK Domestic Migrant Workers | DESIblitz

You misunderstand me. I don't think the Brits want those jobs. That was the whole point of my post. I think the Brits are seeing Eastern Europeans around them and mistakenly assuming they are the competion for desirable jobs, are snatching them out from under the noses of local people, and that's why so many young people in Cornwall are underemployed.

I worked for the Council and I was the only job stealing foreigner there as far as I could tell, unless you consider anything on the far side of the Tamar Bridge "foreign", as do many Cornish people. Nevertheless I was treated to endless whingeing about job-stealing Eastern Europeans from some of my co-workers.

 

[sandandfoam]

Good article about the plight of the Roma people
The Roma: Europe's pariah people | World news | The Guardian

 

[Panda]

You misunderstand me. I don't think the Brits want those jobs. That was the whole point of my post. I think the Brits are seeing Eastern Europeans around them and mistakenly assuming they are the competion for desirable jobs, are snatching them out from under the noses of local people, and that's why so many young people in Cornwall are underemployed.

I worked for the Council and I was the only job stealing foreigner there as far as I could tell, unless you consider anything on the far side of the Tamar Bridge "foreign", as do many Cornish people. Nevertheless I was treated to endless whingeing about job-stealing Eastern Europeans from some of my co-workers.

My dad is interviewing people just now for a software engineering job and about 20 of the 70 applicants are foreign.

 

[kai]

To go back to what I quoted (emphasis mine):

It seems that a nomadic lifestyle can be integrated into the UK, with the example of Irish Travellers (then again, they're one of the "most discriminated against ethnic groups". As for the part about numbers, according to Wikipedia: "Recent estimates number both Roma Gypsies and Irish Travellers together at 300,000, and are based on local government caravan counts". Definitely not as big as the populations in France, but then again, France is larger in size, for one.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller#cite_note-8

well lets look at what you say, " it seems that a nomadic lifestyle can be integrated into the UK" then ( then again there one of the most discriminated against ethnic groups)



seems like their not integrated then?





The 2006 census in Ireland reported the number of Irish Travellers as 22,369.[8] Statistics for Irish Travellers in the UK do not exist although for the first time in 2011, the census will recognise Gypsies and Irish Travellers as distinct ethnic groups with specific needs. Recent estimates number both Roma Gypsies and Irish Travellers together at 300,000, and are based on local government caravan counts[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller




so how do we integrate them ? what do you do. set up legal camps? fine by me but are they going to live there or just stay there for a while? do they pay taxes, National insurance ? do the tax payer pick up the bill for up to 300,000 people who choose to live a nomadic lifestyle? what are the logistical problems of setting up camps for people to wander across the UK with no fixed abode? and i have to ask is that integration or accommodation? I mean do we insist they integrate into mainstream British life or do we give them some kind of special dispensation from the rules and regulations the rest of us all live by?


secondly if it wasnt for the English channel and we had an influx of up to another 30,000 people who decide to set up camp in the UK a situation other western European countries are now attempting to deal with,what would be the options?

 

[kai]

You misunderstand me. I don't think the Brits want those jobs. That was the whole point of my post. I think the Brits are seeing Eastern Europeans around them and mistakenly assuming they are the competion for desirable jobs, are snatching them out from under the noses of local people, and that's why so many young people in Cornwall are underemployed.

I worked for the Council and I was the only job stealing foreigner there as far as I could tell, unless you consider anything on the far side of the Tamar Bridge "foreign", as do many Cornish people. Nevertheless I was treated to endless whingeing about job-stealing Eastern Europeans from some of my co-workers.

well i can honestly say that where i live Eastern Europeans work in all different kinds of employment from car washes to building to Beauty salons to Supermarkets and local councils. I am not really sure how it affects locals in the work place but it must have some effect. I haven't heard much whingeing but then the Cornish are kind of unique in many ways.

 

[kai]

Shades of France ?

THE new Government last night warned troublemaking travellers and gypsies: “The good times are over.


Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Gypsy camp crackdown

 

[Bismillah]

How divisive of an issue do you think it will be within the EU? Could this mark some resentment between the poorer, relatively newer EU members, like Romania and Bulgeria? Do you think any lasting initiative will be passed to help Europe's most marginalized minority?

 

[kai]

How divisive of an issue do you think it will be within the EU? Could this mark some resentment between the poorer, relatively newer EU members, like Romania and Bulgeria? Do you think any lasting initiative will be passed to help Europe's most marginalized minority?

Its just showing up divisions that have always been there. The Roma in question are most probably economic migrants who would rather live in a more prosperous environment in France than in say Romania and who can blame them. The EU needs to use some common sense when creating a policy such as freedom of movement. If they are fleeing persecution then its asylum they are seeking rather than just plain residency and there are procedures for both.

 

[Cypress]

I found something interesting on web: In France, an Evangelical Gypsy group shakes up the immigration debate

 

[sandandfoam]

Its just showing up divisions that have always been there. The Roma in question are most probably economic migrants who would rather live in a more prosperous environment in France than in say Romania and who can blame them. The EU needs to use some common sense when creating a policy such as freedom of movement. If they are fleeing persecution then its asylum they are seeking rather than just plain residency and there are procedures for both.

You know my views on the EU Kai but the politicians can't have it both ways. European integration has been foisted upon us, freedom of movement is integral to integration, hence all the Polish people in this part of the world. (which btw I am in favour of - Wayne Rooney is a prime example of what we look like - we need new blood )

Seems to me freedom of movement is fine when it forces down wages and is to the benefit of the wealthy.

 

[kai]

You know my views on the EU Kai but the politicians can't have it both ways. European integration has been foisted upon us, freedom of movement is integral to integration, hence all the Polish people in this part of the world. (which btw I am in favour of - Wayne Rooney is a prime example of what we look like - we need new blood )

Seems to me freedom of movement is fine when it forces down wages and is to the benefit of the wealthy.

Its all very well having freedom of movement but what did they expect people to do from the poorer less developed nations to do wander in have a look around and wander back again? Freedom of movement inst freedom to settle wherever the grass is greener , not without the paperwork anyway.

 

[sandandfoam]

Its all very well having freedom of movement but what did they expect people to do from the poorer less developed nations to do wander in have a look around and wander back again? Freedom of movement inst freedom to settle wherever the grass is greener , not without the paperwork anyway.

It is if you're Irish, British etc
We can set up wherever we want - no problem at all

 

[kai]

It is if you're Irish, British etc
We can set up wherever we want - no problem at all

well actually no we cant, i cant go across the road from me and pitch a tent in a field and live there. I can put a caravan in a lay by and live there either. and i cant build a house in my own back garden and live in that either. not without someone's permission.

 

[sandandfoam]

well actually no we cant, i cant go across the road from me and pitch a tent in a field and live there. I can put a caravan in a lay by and live there either. and i cant build a house in my own back garden and live in that either. not without someone's permission.

When's the last time squatters, who are also EU citizens were deported from London?

 

[kai]

When's the last time squatters, who are also EU citizens were deported from London?

It wont be long!

Julian and Samantha Mosedale reclaimed the property in St Margaret's Road, Tottenham, today — changing locks and installing a new alarm — after the Romanian travellers were forced out after a three-week legal battle.

Squatters have left our dream home in ruins, say family | News

 

[sandandfoam]

This is how freely an Irish citizen can move in Europe.
Frankly it's nuts - but contrast it with the treatment of Roma never convicted of anything.
Panic across Spain as Irish rapist Larry Murphy arrives - Republic of Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

 

[Alceste]

My dad is interviewing people just now for a software engineering job and about 20 of the 70 applicants are foreign.

So are about 29 % of his employees foreign then?

 

[croak]

well lets look at what you say, " it seems that a nomadic lifestyle can be integrated into the UK" then ( then again there one of the most discriminated against ethnic groups)



seems like their not integrated then?

Huh, you do have a point there. For some reason, I seem to forget what I was going on about (my habit of posting late at night doesn't help). Ah, I think what I meant was that there is the possiblity of a nomadic people being integrated into the UK, and there have been steps taken towards that end. But at this point in time, there is still a long way to go.

so how do we integrate them ? what do you do. set up legal camps? fine by me but are they going to live there or just stay there for a while? do they pay taxes, National insurance ? do the tax payer pick up the bill for up to 300,000 people who choose to live a nomadic lifestyle? what are the logistical problems of setting up camps for people to wander across the UK with no fixed abode? and i have to ask is that integration or accommodation? I mean do we insist they integrate into mainstream British life or do we give them some kind of special dispensation from the rules and regulations the rest of us all live by?

http://www.gtce.org.uk/network/traveller/traveller_file.pdf This contains links to resources. It is focused on education, an important part of integration.
Friends, Families and Travellers This site focuses on the UK and is nicely organized. I think it would answer your questions. As for taxes, I think I can answer that: if they are citizens, wouldn't they have to pay them?

Sites and Rights

secondly if it wasnt for the English channel and we had an influx of up to another 30,000 people who decide to set up camp in the UK a situation other western European countries are now attempting to deal with,what would be the options?

I wouldn't know. This is not my field of expertise.

 

[Panda]

Freedom of movement only works between countries that are economically and socially similar.