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Mass shooting at gay nightclub.

Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Revoltingest said:
Ugh....this is why I avoid any discussions about
gun regulation when current events raise passions.
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Yes, it will raise passions because one part of the population is ****ing done with this **** while another part finds this acceptable and wants nothing more done about it than the same tried and failed method of more guns to fix it.
Most Americans are over this ****. But guess who keeps that from coming to fruition (it's the same who just killed off Roe v Wade)?
Ignoring it because of passion is to largely avoid this debate all together.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Twilight Hue said:
You think owning a weapon requires the same complexity as becoming a surgeon or nurse?

There are sure some weird comparisons going on here.

Still, I'm not against training and such. It's actually a good thing. I had to attend a hunter safety course and pass before getting my license tag to hunt when I was a teen.

I wouldn't be against a weapons training and safety course before purchasing a firearm. It was great fun and a learning experience.
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He also mentioned nurses with a syringe and driving your kids to school. They are all things that require knowledge and training to safely and properly use. Guns are no different.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Twilight Hue said:
You think owning a weapon requires the same complexity as becoming a surgeon or nurse?

There are sure some weird comparisons going on here.

Still, I'm not against training and such. It's actually a good thing. I had to attend a hunter safety course and pass before getting my license tag to hunt when I was a teen.

I wouldn't be against a weapons training and safety course before purchasing a firearm. It was great fun and a learning experience.
Click to expand...
Who said anything about complexity? I was thinking about outcomes. While a scalpel or a syginge can indeed do great harm, that was never their purpose. There has never been a bullet made whose purpose was not to harm the target at which it is fired.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Father Heathen said:
Many cosplay and LARP as tacticool commandos and have wet dreams about saving the day Dirty Harry style. They make 2A a personality trait.
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No, cosplayers and LARPers know it's all make believe, fantasy, not real and lots of LARPers also have a hard time going out in public in costume. We spend hundreds and thousands on clothes, accessories and fake weapons.
Those you mentioned, to them it is real. They spend hundreds and thousands on real ammo and real weapons.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
SkepticThinker said:
You have to compare a country (USA) to an entire continent (Europe) and you think that helps your argument?

Oh and then there's this:

"While shootings are far less common in Europe, they do still take place occasionally. According to the latest available data by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), Albania saw the worst rates of gun violence in 2019 with 1.39 gun violence deaths that year per 100,000 people. This was followed by Montenegro at a rate of 0.99 deaths and North Macedonia at 0.98 deaths. While these figures are high by European standards, they were significantly lower than the rate of 4.12 deaths per 100,000 population, which was found in the U.S. As the IHME data shows, EU Member States have seen lower rates of firearm homicides than many other regions worldwide."
Infographic: Mapping Europe's Gun Deaths
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^^this^^ :clapping:
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Who said anything about complexity? I was thinking about outcomes. While a scalpel or a syginge can indeed do great harm, that was never their purpose. There has never been a bullet made whose purpose was not to harm the target at which it is fired.
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I dunno. A bullet can quickly end some pretty bad people out there and save a lot of lives as well.

Plus, just to point out, bullets are also used in construction btw. It's intended purpose varies witth use.

Still a pretty weird comparison I think.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Twilight Hue said:
I dunno. A bullet can quickly end some pretty bad people out there and save a lot of lives as well.
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Oh, I know! There you are, standing behind the bar serving drinks when somebody runs through the door and opens fire, killing you, your fellow bartender, and three other people in the room. Then this really brave woman jumps up and yells, "I've got a gun in my purse! Just wait until I get it out."

Yeah.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Oh, I know! There you are, standing behind the bar serving drinks when somebody runs through the door and opens fire, killing you, your fellow bartender, and three other people in the room. Then this really brave woman jumps up and yells, "I've got a gun in my purse! Just wait until I get it out."

Yeah.
Click to expand...
Yeah..

... you betcha!


Police: West Virginia Woman Kills Man, Possibly Preventing a Mass Shooting – NBC4 Washington

And everyone lived happily ever after. Except of course, the bad guy.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Twilight Hue said:
Yeah..

... you betcha!


Police: West Virginia Woman Kills Man, Possibly Preventing a Mass Shooting – NBC4 Washington

And everyone lived happily ever after. Except of course, the bad guy.
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Has it ever occurred to you that finding one example of something doesn't prove it's general utility? How many examples of mass shooters can you find where the perp was NOT taken out by an ordinary person with a gun? Shall I start a list for you? Sandy Hook, Uvalde ...

Even in this instance, it wasn't somebody with a gun who ended the killer's rampage, was it?

But you go ahead and cling to your shibboleth. It does appear to make you feel better, if nothing else.
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
No, cosplayers and LARPers know it's all make believe, fantasy, not real and lots of LARPers also have a hard time going out in public in costume. We spend hundreds and thousands on clothes, accessories and fake weapons.
Those you mentioned, to them it is real. They spend hundreds and thousands on real ammo and real weapons.
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I was being facetious, but they do pretend to be something that they're not, they just don't realize it due to delusion and a lack of self awareness. They're acting out a goofy G.I. Joe fantasy.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Father Heathen said:
How often or reliable is this, though? It's unrealistic and childish to believe that giving a gun to any random, average citizen will magically turn them into Dirty Harry. Hollywood isn't real life.
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It is going to happen. But it is incredibly rare. It does not come even close to justifying all of the deaths not prevented by such an unlikely event.
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
It is going to happen. But it is incredibly rare. It does not come even close to justifying all of the deaths not prevented by such an unlikely event.
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I know that it happens, but like you've pointed out, I suspect that the negative outcomes vastly outnumber the positive ones. Sure, sometimes an armed citizen neutralizes an armed criminal, but it would be preferable if such situations didn't occur at all.
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Fascinating graphic:

Screenshot_20221122-185332_Instagram.jpg
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Other statistical data from the FBI:

Active Shooter Incidents 20-Year Review, 2000-2019 — FBI

Please, please don't delude yourself or others into believing you are going to be the lucky good guy with a gun who saves the day. The rate of that actually happening in real life is incredibly low.

As anyone worth their salt will tell you in an active shooter training, your first move in an active shooter situation should be to run. If running is not an option, hide. Only if you cannot run and cannot hide should fighting be your last, desperate resort.
 
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