Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more

[MysticSang'ha]

I always edit my post, but it has nothing to do with hiding anything. I think you may not realize how the Christian God reveals Himself in the Holy Bible. I didn't write the Bible, I just believe it. If you do not like the contents of the Bible, then your battle is with the author of the Bible and not me.

I do not consider this a battle, CP.

How you project your beliefs comes off as hostile toward many others. This is all I'm pointing out.

EDIT TO ADD: And my argument that you've edited your post to further my point? It was to show that you felt it necessary again to argue why Christianity is hostile to religious pluralism.

 

[ChristineES]

Quote:
Christine, what do you think Jesus meant by this?

But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” - Jesus Christ

Christine,

Could you please reply to my request above?

Thank you sister-in Christ!

I thought I did, but I will try again. Jesus was talking of true believers, it is apparent that you don't believe Mormons to be true believers. Yes, they have an extra book. But they do believe in Jesus. What were Jesus commands?- To love your God with all your heart, soul and strength (or might), to love your neighbors as yourself, those are the 2 most important ones. Does Katz not do that already? (and she does, as far as I can tell). And there are other commandments, like praying for your enemies, having mercy, paying to God what belongs to God, not judging your brother and a lot more. Can you say that Katz does not follow those? And I told you of another friend I have (who used to take care of my children)who does worship God and always talks about worshiping her "heaven Father". She is a Mormon, too.
I have a question for you-
Did Jesus or Paul say it is necessary to believe in the Trinity in order to be a true believer?

EDIT:One last thought- If I am wrong, and I always have that chance, then it is between God and I, and I hope that if I am ever wrong, God will let me know. (a great run-on sentence).

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I thought I did, but I will try again. Jesus was talking of true believers, it is apparent that you don't believe Mormons to be true believers. Yes, they have an extra book. But they do believe in Jesus. What were Jesus commands?- To love your God with all your heart, soul and strength (or might), to love your neighbors as yourself, those are the 2 most important ones. Does Katz not do that already? (and she does, as far as I can tell). And their are other commandments, like praying for your enemies, having mercy, paying to God what belongs to God, not judging your brother and a lot more. Can you say that Katz does not follow those? And I told you of another friend I have (who used to take care of my children)who does worship God and always talks about worshiping her "heaven Father". She is a Mormon, too.
I have a question for you-
Did Jesus or Paul say it is necessary to believe in the Trinity in order to be a true believer?

When Jesus and the disciples warned us in advance about another Jesus or another gospel, what is your understanding of those warnings from Jesus and the disciples themselves? How do you personally determine truth, do you rely and trust in your own personal views and opinions or do yout trust in God's written revelation (Holy Bible)? What does it mean to trust in the Lord. How do you discern spiritual truth from error?

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I am interested in where belief in a Triune God is essential to salvation biblicaly. Why is this essential to be considered a Christian? Biblicaly, not historically or traditionally.

 

[ChristineES]

When Jesus and the disciples warned us in advance about another Jesus or another gospel, what is your understanding of those warnings from Jesus and the disciples themselves? How do you personally determine truth, do you rely and trust in your own personal views and opinions or do yout trust in God's written revelation (Holy Bible)? What does it mean to trust in the Lord. How do you discern spiritual truth from error?

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.

I am constantly reading and studying The Bible, to make sure I make no error. I also pray before I read it and study it. But no matter what I do, there is a chance for error. I am not God. If I were perfect Jesus would not have needed to die for me (and everyone else. God is the only being who has no error, according to my belief.

 

[challupa]

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.

Problem is though all your interpretation of the Bible which you claim are God's and Jesus' words, are contingent upon your physical brain deciding what the words mean and therefore can only be claimed to be your personal understanding of what you read, not necessarily what it truly means, right?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I am constantly reading and studying The Bible, to make sure I make no error. I also pray before I read it and study it. But no matter what I do, there is a chance for error. I am not God. If I were perfect Jesus would not have needed to die for me (and everyone else. God is the only being who has no error, according to my belief.

Dear sister,

Do you mind sharing what your local church believes in regards to LDS Christians? Are you willing to submit to your church elders on this issue? By the grace of God, we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Do you mind giving me a link to your local church that you attend?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Problem is though all your interpretation of the Bible which you claim are God's and Jesus' words, are contingent upon your physical brain deciding what the words mean and therefore can only be claimed to be your personal understanding of what you read, not necessarily what it truly means, right?

Christianity is historical, right? Christians will always know in part since God is infinite. However, there is a uniform Christian testimony of the essentials of the Christian Faith for the last 2,000 years. Historic creeds and confessions were written by the church to define what is true in regards to the essentials of the Faith. The doctrine of the Trinity was defined by the Church in a creed to define God as being Triune. It was written to refute those who rejected the Trinity. This is where Roman Catholic Christians should come in with a defense of the Christian Faith.

 

[ChristineES]

Dear sister,

Do you mind sharing what your local church believes in regards to LDS Christians? Are you willing to submit to your church elders on this issue? By the grace of God, we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Do you mind giving me a link to your local church that you attend?

I am a Baptist (that is to say I was Baptized in a Baptist Church 25 years ago), but I am not attending a Baptist Church at the moment. I have been trying out other denominations. Most of them don't accept Mormons as true Christians, especially the Baptists.
I don't get all my personal beliefs from my local Church. Most of them don't even talk about other denominations, anyway.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I am a Baptist (that is to say I was Baptized in a Baptist Church 25 years ago), but I am not attending a Baptist Church at the moment. I have been trying out other denominations. Most of them don't accept Mormons as true Christians, especially the Baptists.
I don't get all my personal beliefs from my local Church. Most of them don't even talk about other denominations, anyway.

Okay, thanks for sharing. Have you tried the local Mormon Church out of curicosity? Most historic Christians would not consider the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to be another denomination. I don't think the Mormon Church will consider themselves to be just another Christian denomination either.

 

[challupa]

Christianity is historical, right? Christians will always know in part since God is infinite. However, there is a uniform Christian testimony of the essentials of the Christian Faith for the last 2,000 years. Historic creeds and confessions were written by the church to define what is true in regards to the essentials of the Faith. The doctrine of the Trinity was defined by the Church in a creed to define God as being Triune. It was written to refute those who rejected the Trinity. This is where Roman Catholic Christians should come in with a defense of the Christian Faith.

Which history do you consider to be the right historical one? There were many you know before Constantine and the so called trinity and triune changes. You do realize that other than the Bible, Jesus is not mentioned nor is there a record of his birth in a time when these records were kept quite meticulously. The few that fundamentalists have decided are referring to Jesus have been found to be forgeries by biblical scholars. I don't have any problem with you wanting to believe in your version of religion, but you have absolutely no right to define what does or does not constitute Christianity. That is what you are trying to do and you are erroneously thinking that is Christ-like.

 

[Alceste]

You're quite the interesting creature, CP. I get from you argument after argument that the Bible says Christians must be hostile toward other belief systems and that Christianity is incompatible with religious pluralism. If you subscribe to that argument, why is it such a surprise when hostility comes right back at you?

What I gather from his posts is that his preacher teaches him to express himself this way because his own opinions are worthless. He has also been taught to expect hostility in return for this approach - he takes this as an affirmation of his righteousness. He also expects to fail to win hearts and minds - this is taken as an affirmation the truth is only clear to the "elect".

His preacher has really covered all the bases: the more your community tells you you're behaving like a jerk, causing strife and alienating people, the more your preacher and church group reward you with praise.

IMO, CP is in a cult.

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." ~ Louis Jolyon West

An interesting specimen indeed.

 

[themadhair]

IMO, CP is in a cult.

Being new to the forum I didn't want to be the one to say that.

 

[Alceste]

Being new to the forum I didn't want to be the one to say that.

I think you can pretty much say what you like - the mods will tell you if you've crossed the line, or just delete your post. They help me out that way all the time.

I don't think that's over the line myself, but it's a bit off-topic. Perhaps another thread on where to draw the line between a church and a cult is in order...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't think that's over the line myself, but it's a bit off-topic. Perhaps another thread on where to draw the line between a church and a cult is in order...

Not necessary - I can sum it up in one word: Age.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

What I gather from his posts is that his preacher teaches him to express himself this way because his own opinions are worthless. He has also been taught to expect hostility in return for this approach - he takes this as an affirmation of his righteousness. He also expects to fail to win hearts and minds - this is taken as an affirmation the truth is only clear to the "elect".

His preacher has really covered all the bases: the more your community tells you you're behaving like a jerk, causing strife and alienating people, the more your preacher and church group reward you with praise.

IMO, CP is in a cult.

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." ~ Louis Jolyon West

An interesting specimen indeed.

LOL... Did you know the original first century Christians were considered to be in a cult too. Here are two sites that represent what I believe. You will find that my cult is rooted throughout the entire history of the New Testament Church and the original Christian cult. I can't deny that.

Click below to read about the cult of historic Christianity:

What is the Alliance? - Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, Inc

Monergism.com :: Classic Articles and Resources of the Historic Christian Faith

You guys are way too much fun! I'm glad that I have your attention.

 

[Alceste]

You guys are way too much fun! I'm glad that I have your attention.

I wish I felt the same about us having yours.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I wish I felt the same about us having yours.

Sure you have my attention!

 

[DallasApple]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim
You guys are way too much fun! I'm glad that I have your attention.

Clanging gongs and cymbals get peoples attention too brother dear.

Love

Dallas

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Clanging gongs and cymbals get peoples attention too brother dear.

Love

Dallas

LOL!!!!! And what do you have to share with unbelievers dear sister? Don't be afraid of the offense of the gospel when you share. Christ came to save wretched sinners like me and you dear sister. The Apostle Paul already claimed the title of chief sinner. I'm right behind him. Did you know that Jesus called His disciples evil?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” - Rom 1:16-17