Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
If this is important to you, I will post a link to the entire chapter next to the verse quoted.
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Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more
- Thread starter Katzpur
- Start date
If this is important to you, I will post a link to the entire chapter next to the verse quoted.
McBell
Unbound
Jesus is saying that there is not any one place that is preferred or even better to worship than any other place.
That is it not the PLACE were one worships that is important but that it is true, spiritual worship that is important.
Why?
What do you claim it means?
McBell
Unbound
I do not need nor require a link.
Though I do like to be able to go directly to the verses presented without having to hunt the whole Bible every time.
McBell
Unbound
Thank you for the link.
With all the various versions being used, it is nice to have one search for all of them.
My preferred Bible software does allow search, but only in one version at a time.
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
That site has been a godsend in dealing with discussions around here, if you'll forgive the expression.
Glad to pass this on. It's really come in handy.
It's indespensible. Only gripe I have with it is that it doesn't include the Pe****a (Coptic).
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
Here's a link to a Bible site that allows you to pull up 5 translations at the same time.
Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search
Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search
I am a trinitarian Christian. It is one thing to have a different theology than someone and whole other thing to say that you are a superior Christian for believing it. There are several denominations that don't believe in the trinity, including Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. It is funny that you use the word "apostate", the JWs believe that the Trinity is apostasy and is one of the reasons they separated from other Christians (they don't even call themselves Christians).
Although I doubt The Book of Mormon (and I have said so before)because of the iffy story about it's origins, I am still not going completely dismiss it.
I think it means what it says. One of my friends, who is a Mormon, prays to her "Father in Heaven". I was pretty ignorant of Mormon beliefs when I first came here 3 years ago, but I have learned a lot by asking questions about things I had heard. Sure, there are differences in my theology, but the basic thing is, they do follow Jesus.
gnostic
The Lost One
As far as I concern, anyone who believe or follow Jesus, believe in what is written in the gospels in regarding to Jesus and his teachings (as well as teachings of others, like Paul, Peter, etc), then you're Christian.
I don't think that just because your church have extra scripture to go with your religion, doesn't disqualify you of being Christian.
I have seen some Christians here, throw around "True Christians", like the way some Muslims use the term "True Muslims".
Seriously, what are "True Christians"?
The Catholics? Are they the True Christians? I doubt it.
Both the Roman Church and East Orthodox Church, both originated with Constantine. There were only Church Fathers, stemmed from the Pauline Christians, before Constantine's time, but I am afraid that the church have changed a lot, more so now then ever.
One of the Protestant sects? I really don't think so. Like it or not, the Protestants all originated from the Roman Catholic church.
The "True Christians" had actually died out when the last of Jesus' disciples died out. Had Jesus or any of the apostles were alive now, they wouldn't not have recognise these being Jesus' Christianity. None of the earlier believers had catherdals, have these customs of rituals and sermons, where they dressed in rich robes.
As others have stated, "Christian" is just a label, and to me, it's worth every little.
I don't think that just because your church have extra scripture to go with your religion, doesn't disqualify you of being Christian.
I have seen some Christians here, throw around "True Christians", like the way some Muslims use the term "True Muslims".
Seriously, what are "True Christians"?
The Catholics? Are they the True Christians? I doubt it.
Both the Roman Church and East Orthodox Church, both originated with Constantine. There were only Church Fathers, stemmed from the Pauline Christians, before Constantine's time, but I am afraid that the church have changed a lot, more so now then ever.
One of the Protestant sects? I really don't think so. Like it or not, the Protestants all originated from the Roman Catholic church.
The "True Christians" had actually died out when the last of Jesus' disciples died out. Had Jesus or any of the apostles were alive now, they wouldn't not have recognise these being Jesus' Christianity. None of the earlier believers had catherdals, have these customs of rituals and sermons, where they dressed in rich robes.
As others have stated, "Christian" is just a label, and to me, it's worth every little.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
What word would you suggest, which has the meaning of delusion, but does not come across as degrading? It would be a shame to have to sacrifice candor for politeness.But the word does not come across like that in which case I would try to choose another way to express it if you don't mean it to be degrading.
Buttons*
Glass half Panda'd
Well to be perfectly honest, 'delusional' does sound a tad disrespectful. I would go for a word like 'visionary.'
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
That's really good and thank you for asking . We worship in Spirit and in Truth. Before I expound on that, I really want Christine to respond to my question to her since she is a Christian, and she did post a challenge and a Christian rebuke to me. Does it really matter to God if we worship as a Mormon Christian or a historic Biblical Christian in light what Jesus wrote in regards to worshiping God in Spirit and in Truth? I believe Joseph Smith believed it was important, since he was trying to restore historic Biblical Christianity from apostasy. Prophet Smith is saying that all of Christendom is not worshiping God in Spirit and in Truth. Was he right? This particular topic is related to religious pluralism and the exclusive claim of Jesus Christ being the only way to God. If we worship God the Father without the Son, are we worshiping God in Spirit and in Truth? Is it important to worship the Triune God according to Jesus?
Christine,
Could you please reply to my request above?
Thank you sister-in Christ!
If you re-read my postings, I make a conscious effort to call Mormons to be Mormon Christians, or LDS Christians. I get a lot of rebukes from most Christians with this position. Please understand that when I call Mormons to be Mormon Christians, it is out of respect to them as professing Christians. However, I do not personally consider Mormon Christians to be my brothers and sisters in Christ since they do not worship the Triune God. This is the orthodox position throughout Christendom (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Anglicans, and other Triune worshippers of God). If you study the Catholic Catechism, the Catholic Church considers Protestants to be their separated brethren. However, they do not consider Mormons to be their separated Christian brothers and sisters. The Orthodox and Protestant Churches hold the same position. Now we go back for circle in regards to Jesus saying that we MUST worship God in Spirit and in Truth. Christians have to emulate Paul and be God pleasers according to written revelation (Holy Bible) and not be tempted to be men pleasers, compromising on how God reveals Himself in truth.
For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. - 2 Cor 11:4
Paul's Concern for the Galatians
No Other Gospel
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. - Gal 1
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain. Brothers,I entreat you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You did me no wrong. You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. What then has become of the blessing you felt? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have gouged out your eyes and given them to me. Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth? They make much of you, but for no good purpose. They want to shut you out, that you may make much of them. It is always good to be made much of for a good purpose, and not only when I am present with you, my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you. - Gal 4
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You're quite the interesting creature, CP. I get from you argument after argument that the Bible says Christians must be hostile toward other belief systems and that Christianity is incompatible with religious pluralism. If you subscribe to that argument, why is it such a surprise when hostility comes right back at you?
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
You are entitled to your perspective and opinion. I think you have put words in my mouth which cannot be supported with my postings. Could you please document what I posted to support what you wrote about me? I am just trying to worship the One True God in Spirit and in Truth. I love God more than the approval of men. Do you personally believe that the God in the Bible teaches that the biblical Jesus Christ is not the only way to God? If so, please help me find the verses in the Bible to support that position.
Thank you!
Here is a diffcult passage for those Christians who lean toward universalism and religous pluralism (many ways to God apart from the biblical Jesus Christ).
Paul and the False Apostles
I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles. Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things. 2 Cor 11
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*sigh*
You created an entire thread out of it and stated your position in the OP.......
Christian Pilgrim said:
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...s/78380-christianity-religious-pluralism.html
And......
Christian Pilgrim said:
From this thread.
And from that same thread we have....
Christian Pilgrim said:
Not to mention the countless amount of times you have repeatedly questioned the validity of LDS Christians to follow a viable "Christian" doctrine. You have entered every discussion with the intent of showing why you feel it morally superior to separate yourself from those you feel are not true Christians.
Many of your arguments are hostile toward others and other belief systems, no matter how much they may be transmitted with a smile and a "God bless you" message. So again I ask, why is it any surprise when this hostility comes right back at you?
Ah, and I've seen that you've edited your post to only prove my point further........
Well said. What we send out, comes back to us. There is no question from his posts that he has to be hostile towards anyone he doesn't think is a "true Christian" because the bible supports or rather demands that this be so, in his mind.
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
I always edit my post, but it has nothing to do with hiding anything. I think you may not realize how the Christian God reveals Himself in the Holy Bible. I didn't write the Bible, I just believe it. If you do not like the contents of the Bible, then your battle is with the author of the Bible and not me.
Well that was a predictable answer...