Men in the West are dressed in full; women are dressed half , quarter or less

[Gjallarhorn]

Yes if we got no minds to think similar to known animals,then god can make to you a nice fur to keep you always clothed.

He didn't seem to think it was very important then. We're only a few steps farther than chimps and they seem to be nice and snuggly. At what point did the Almighty think a few fur genes would spoil the tool-makers?

 

[FearGod]

Sadly, this isn't just about RF, FearGod. I've seen many, many TV programs, social media pages, newspapers, and other media outlets talk about this very topic and discuss it at length. It's something that I think has been getting way too much attention.

Instead of presenting yet another TV program talking about why women shouldn't dress this or that way as to not "subject themselves to sexual harassment," why not educate more men and teach them to control themselves and their sexual desires?

Instead of labeling women who wear something you don't agree with as "sluts" or "whores" (excuse the language; I also loathe those two labels in particular), why not try to engage in civil discussion and ask them to elaborate on why they do what they do — if you feel that you really have to find out — and if you really think that your viewpoints have a solid logical and rational backing, why not argue your viewpoints without stigmatizing your opponents or resorting to name-calling (e.g. "****" or "whore")?

The way I see it, some people just don't want to bother with discussion or debate; they mainly want others to listen to and obey them just because they speak the "truth." Sorry, but if someone believes that they indeed have the "truth" with regard to any specific topic, then I think it should only stand to reason that they would be willing to defend their position through rational discourse. Otherwise they'd just be demanding blind obedience, as far as I'm concerned.

Most part of the muslim countries never insult a woman because of what she wears,
Never called with offensive words such as **** or Whore,but what is going on is just an educated programs to advice what woman should wear similar to the adv which show woman as a sex object,then you can compare between both programs.

i am always prefer to post pictures to support my words.

Here are some pictures from the arab word for singers and actresses and we never called them as whores,that is an awful world which we can't insult a woman for just wearing less.


Arabic actress




Arabic Singer

[youtube]eEZ9fhdDGs4[/youtube]
Haifaa Wahby - Boos El Wawa /

 

[paarsurrey]

I request that comparison of the West should be restricted to the West; its trend in the past and the present.

Jesus was dressed in full and so was Mary and they have been opted and followed by the West; why a change and for what?

 

[FearGod]

I request that comparison of the West should be restricted to the West; its trend in the past and the present.

Jesus was dressed in full and so was Mary and they have been opted and followed by the West; why a change and for what?

Prophet Mohammed pbuh said that the world will goes this way as we can see it today shortly before the end of the world.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Prophet Mohammed pbuh said that the world will goes this way as we can see it today shortly before the end of the world.

"Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised."

 

[beenie]

I don't fully agree with what you have derived from the verses of Quran.

Men and women have been:

1. Given raiment as a bounty from one true attributive creator God
2. And they have been equally and equitably directed to wear them ;
3. They are to cover their body parts so that they are not considered naked.
4. so that they don't arose/inflame the sexual desire of the opposite gender in the society except those who are their lawful spouses
5. The dress should not divert one’s attention from the righteousness; which should always remain in focus.

Etc.. and etc..

Within the above reasonable limits men and women could choose their dresses happily, in my opinion.

I agree that God suggest we choose nice clothing. Your point?

How do you explain this verse which identify who is allowed to see the attraction and adornment of women.

Al-Noor

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed. (24:31)

I explain it by saying that adornments are hight subjective. What if a man is totally turned on by eyes? Do women have to cover those as well? What if he's attracted to a woman in a burqa...maybe the mystery of the unknown is a turn on for him. What next? God gave us brains for a reason. I really don't think He cares what clothing we choose.

Several Middle-Eastern countries are in a state of turmoil — some even having ongoing civil wars — in addition to problems of poverty, lack of education, poor healthcare, and unstable economic conditions, yet we're placing such significance on the debate of what women should wear when they're walking down the streets?

Yeah, it seems to me that we still have some ways to go yet before we even start getting anywhere close to progress.

So true. Our priorities are so out of whack, I can't even begin to tell you how sad that really is.

Sadly, this isn't just about RF, FearGod. I've seen many, many TV programs, social media pages, newspapers, and other media outlets talk about this very topic and discuss it at length. It's something that I think has been getting way too much attention.

Instead of presenting yet another TV program talking about why women shouldn't dress this or that way as to not "subject themselves to sexual harassment," why not educate more men and teach them to control themselves and their sexual desires?

Instead of labeling women who wear something you don't agree with as "sluts" or "whores" (excuse the language; I also loathe those two labels in particular), why not try to engage in civil discussion and ask them to elaborate on why they do what they do — if you feel that you really have to find out — and if you really think that your viewpoints have a solid logical and rational backing, why not argue your viewpoints without stigmatizing your opponents or resorting to name-calling (e.g. "****" or "whore")?

The way I see it, some people just don't want to bother with discussion or debate; they mainly want others to listen to and obey them just because they speak the "truth." Sorry, but if someone believes that they indeed have the "truth" with regard to any specific topic, then I think it should only stand to reason that they would be willing to defend their position through rational discourse. Otherwise they'd just be demanding blind obedience, as far as I'm concerned.

:clap:

 

[Debater Slayer]

There has been no name calling like this in this thread, in my opinion.

It appears to me that there has been a fair bit of implicit stigmatization, though. Furthermore, my post was meant to describe a general trend that I've been observing elsewhere and not just the content that is posted on RF in relation to this topic.

Most part of the muslim countries never insult a woman because of what she wears,
Never called with offensive words such as **** or Whore,but what is going on is just an educated programs to advice what woman should wear similar to the adv which show woman as a sex object,then you can compare between both programs.

i am always prefer to post pictures to support my words.

Here are some pictures from the arab word for singers and actresses and we never called them as whores,that is an awful world which we can't insult a woman for just wearing less.


Arabic actress




Arabic Singer

[youtube]eEZ9fhdDGs4[/youtube]
Haifaa Wahby - Boos El Wawa /

"Most parts"? What statistics support that, if any?

In case I didn't mention it earlier, I'm an Arab myself, so I know what I'm talking about when I say that stigmatization of women for doing certain things or wearing certain types of clothing is a problem and something that has been occurring a lot. Many people seem to have some sort of a self-righteous halo around their heads when they start talking about topics similar to the one we're discussing now.

Just the other day a video of an "Islamic scholar" was making the rounds on Facebook, and since the person in the video was responding to provocative comments made by an actress with regard to a certain political party (an "Islamist" one), many comments on the video were centered around calling her things that I honestly can't mention here. This is just one example of what I'm talking about. To respond to provocative comments is one thing; to turn the response into a series of ad hominems and name-calling is quite another, especially when it comes from so many people and in such an appalling, self-righteous manner.

I wonder what country in the Arab world you're from, FearGod. It would definitely be interesting if what you say about not insulting women for dressing in a certain style really is a trait of the population at large, but somehow I suspect that there aren't many statistics supporting that (if any at all).

 

[FearGod]

It appears to me that there has been a fair bit of implicit stigmatization, though. Furthermore, my post was meant to describe a general trend that I've been observing elsewhere and not just the content that is posted on RF in relation to this topic.



"Most parts"? What statistics support that, if any?

In case I didn't mention it earlier, I'm an Arab myself, so I know what I'm talking about when I say that stigmatization of women for doing certain things or wearing certain types of clothing is a problem and something that has been occurring a lot. Many people seem to have some sort of a self-righteous halo around their heads when they start talking about topics similar to the one we're discussing now.

Just the other day a video of an "Islamic scholar" was making the rounds on Facebook, and since the person in the video was responding to provocative comments made by an actress with regard to a certain political party (an "Islamist" one), many comments on the video were centered around calling her things that I honestly can't mention here. This is just one example of what I'm talking about. To respond to provocative comments is one thing; to turn the response into a series of ad hominems and name-calling is quite another, especially when it comes from so many people and in such an appalling, self-righteous manner.

I wonder what country in the Arab world you're from, FearGod. It would definitely be interesting if what you say about not insulting women for dressing in a certain style really is a trait of the population at large, but somehow I suspect that there aren't many statistics supporting that (if any at all).

The pictures isn't enough and the video for one arabic singer,do you want me to post you a 1000 arabic songs which showing woman wearing less.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The pictures isn't enough and the video for one arabic singer,do you want me to post you a 1000 arabic songs which showing woman wearing less.

I realize that singers, actresses, etc. exist in Arab countries; this isn't new to me. However, the fact that they merely exist doesn't change the way they're labeled (i.e. the kind of name-calling I mentioned earlier) by large portions of society, so I don't see how showing pictures of them is relevant to our discussion here.

 

[FearGod]

"Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised."

Prophet mohammed pbuh said

Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Al-Haythami)

When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)

Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open

The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)

Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed

Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)

When singers become common (Al-Haythami)

People will dance late into the night

Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)

Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)

When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)

There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.

Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men

 

[paarsurrey]

The pictures isn't enough and the video for one arabic singer,do you want me to post you a 1000 arabic songs which showing woman wearing less.

I don't think it relates to the topic under discussion, in my opinion.

 

[FearGod]

I realize that singers, actresses, etc. exist in Arab countries; this isn't new to me. However, the fact that they merely exist doesn't change the way they're labeled (i.e. the kind of name-calling I mentioned earlier) by large portions of society, so I don't see how showing pictures of them is relevant to our discussion here.

Then how you explain their success in the arab world with large fans,

We aren't the one to judge them,all of us are just visitors on this earth for awhile,yes there are some groups chose to obey god and to lower their gazes and avoid looking to sexy women,whereas other don't obey and they fetch for sexy women in tv,in magazines and in public.

There are many different kind of people and what i beleive that we have no right to judge any one of them,to god is our final return.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I always see people arguing one extreme or the other in this topic.

If I could go around showing off my body by wearing next to nothing and not feel harassed by men then I wouldn't care. But the truth is there are a lot of guys who make me feel very unsafe if I dress that way. A lot of the girls who do dress in skimpy clothing are desperate for attention. That isn't healthy. And because they are so easy, the men stop looking for mature and stable women. So those women who do like to dress more modestly get a lot less attention and have a lot less options.

If men were less easily aroused, a lot more mature, and a great deal more respectful toward women, I'd actually agree that wearing little clothing is fine. But as it is, my experience and observation as a western woman is that our sex crazed culture is unhealthy and takes advantage of women.

I have to say as an Australian i find women who dress skimpily out of context to be a turn off.

For example i was in the city having some drinks with my friends a month back, middle of winter and there were these stupid little girls running around in short black dresses. It was just ridiculous.

My friend was wearing jeans and a low'ish cut top, and her friend was wearing a peasant skirt and a t shirt and they were far more attractive to me than the other girls. (i'm a fan of peasant skirts, they make girls butts look great)

If it was the middle of summer and we were at a night club it would have been alright, but we weren't.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

and just out of curiosity.

One of the tags for this thread is "progress of science"

WTF does this topic have to do with science?

 

[paarsurrey]

Then how you explain their success in the arab world with large fans,

We aren't the one to judge them,all of us are just visitors on this earth for awhile,yes there are some groups chose to obey god and to lower their gazes and avoid looking to sexy women,whereas other don't obey and they fetch for sexy women in tv,in magazines and in public.

There are many different kind of people and what i beleive that we have no right to judge any one of them,to god is our final return.

I think we are not judging anybody.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)

When singers become common (Al-Haythami)

People will dance late into the night

Heavens forbid! :faint:

 

[paarsurrey]

and just out of curiosity.

One of the tags for this thread is "progress of science"

WTF does this topic have to do with science?

Some people thing as if nudity is a sign of progress that science has brought around. I think science and progress has nothing to do with it. To be clothed, among others, is a symbol of civilization , in my opinion.

My religion tells me this:


[20:118] Then We said, ‘O Adam, this is an enemy to thee, and to thy wife; so let him not drive you both out of the garden, lest thou come to grief.
[20:119] ‘It is provided for thee that thou wilt not hunger therein, nor wilt thou be naked.
[20:120] ‘And that thou wilt not thirst therein, nor wilt thou be exposed to the sun.’

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

 

[Falvlun]

Prophet mohammed pbuh said

Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Al-Haythami)

When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)

Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open

The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)

Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed

Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)

When singers become common (Al-Haythami)

People will dance late into the night

Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)

Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)

When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)

There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.

Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men

Who knew that wearing shorts causes infertility, a lack of good deeds, homosexuality, the abomination of female singers, dancing, and music, and the rise in drug usage!

Note also that one of the lines says that women will be naked in spite of being dressed, which more than implies that what a woman wears doesn't matter: it's how she acts that does.

(Hey, you could also try to take a stab at 1) Proving that wearing shorts causes more infidelity. 2) That more infidelity is occuring now than when people were wearing more. 3) That infidelity caused by skimpy clothing is the cause for the rise in divorce in the west. But I'm not holding my breath since this has been ignored every single other time it's been brought up.)

 

[paarsurrey]

Prophet mohammed pbuh said

Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Al-Haythami)

When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)

Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open

The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)

Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed

Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)

When singers become common (Al-Haythami)

People will dance late into the night

Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)

Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)

When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)

There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.

Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men

Please quote from Quran- the first and the foremost source of guidance for Muslims whatever the denomination.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Then how you explain their success in the arab world with large fans,

We aren't the one to judge them,all of us are just visitors on this earth for awhile,yes there are some groups chose to obey god and to lower their gazes and avoid looking to sexy women,whereas other don't obey and they fetch for sexy women in tv,in magazines and in public.

There are many different kind of people and what i beleive that we have no right to judge any one of them,to god is our final return.

Some people watch movies and listen to songs, but they still frown upon the performers' clothing style, etc.

And I think there's still a part of society that doesn't engage in stigmatizing people who wear specific types of clothing; it's just that so many people do it to the point that it's become an issue.