Men's Issues/Masculism DIR

[MysticSang'ha]

Moreover, we aren't even permitted to ask questions there, let alone discuss anything unless
one specifically proclaims to be a "feminist". I eschew that label for cultural reasons.

There are plenty of open forums to do just that. Debate and discussion. Nobody is telling you that you can't start a thread either asking or criticizing.

Why is it that important to go into that forum if you don't identify as a feminist?

 

[Me Myself]

Did you read where I support the creation of the Masculinist Only forum?

Yes, but I also read some very weird and unfounded accusations which I still cant explain to myself why you make them.

Who has expressed "hating" on "feminism" in this thread? Who has said all fmeinism is mysandry? Who? Where?

I dont find such posts.

 

[Draka]

Seriously?

This isn't about a male forum and a female forum. Why don't you read what *I* posted? I don't judge what people identify with based on their genitalia. Do you?

No, but it was the men who were talking about feeling uncomfortable going into the feminism subforum to discuss certain things, so why not have a subforum specifically for men's issues? "Their own place" meaning, obviously I thought, a place for men's issues to be talked about. Not that women couldn't discuss with them or were barred from such a place. Really, I didn't think this needed explaining.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yes, but I also read some very weird and unfounded accusations which I still cant explain to myself why you make them.

Who has expressed "hating" on "feminism" in this thread? Who has said all fmeinism is mysandry? Who? Where?

I dont find such posts.

How about this...

What the sam heck does feminism have to do with masculism? I've said repeatedly that I would understand masculism fighting what they see to be matriarchal elements, but I have rarely seen anyone advocating for an exclusive masculist forum argue for that. Instead, the focus has been countering feminism.

 

[Debater Slayer]

And no one bashed it, you asked why people started discussing about feminism (which you called "bashing") so I just pointed at you how it happened.

Someone put it in said it was on the subjects and that the DIR was not needed. Then it is said that it is good to have a different perspective on the issues and that their perspectives are not the only ones and suddenly we are bashing.

I must have skipped something important?

Because it has been implied we don't need a DIR for mens issues because they can just be put in the feminist forum. So naturally the discussion shifts to why the feminist forum isn't suitable for men to discuss mens issues. I, for one, don't feel welcome or comfortable posting in the feminist forum. And I forget who posted it, but someone posted another members criteria for one to be considered feminist, which were all centered around women BTW, and had nothing to with men, and thus be allowed to post in the feminist DIR . I failed their criteria test so does that mean that I can't comment about mens issues because they are in the feminist DIR?

That's fair enough, and I fully support your right to that. As I said, discussing whatever issue relating to men without attacking others outside the DIR should be okay.

As for posting in the feminist DIR, the staff is currently ironing out some issues so that it's clear who can or can't post there. The DIR is still new, so not everything has been finalized yet.

 

[Draka]

Where? Where has the focus been countering feminism? I've seen mention of rape, custody, domestic violence and other issues which affect men. Where are the mentions of countering feminism?

 

[crossfire]

Moreover, we aren't even permitted to ask questions there, let alone discuss anything unless
one specifically proclaims to be a "feminist". I eschew that label for cultural reasons.
Sigh..by that standard, I might not qualify to post in a Masculinist Only thread either...unless it's green

Unfortunately, whenever feminist issues are attempted to be discussed in the debate area, thread after thread has been hijacked by bozo's making comments on how sexy such-and-such is. This tactic makes it rather difficult for anyone, feminist or non-feminist, to hold anything resembling a decent conversation, although you are free to try to start one. Maybe you can start such a thread in the humanism DIR, where there is some moderation, but it is not an exclusive forum. (As long as the humanists don't mind.)
<edit to add>

**Or, you can start a thread in the "same faith debates" forum, labelling it "gender egalitarians only," or such.

 

[Revoltingest]

There are plenty of open forums to do just that. Debate and discussion. Nobody is telling you that you can't start a thread either asking or criticizing.

You'll note that I do occasionally post in some other threads on RF.
I've even started a couple of my own.

Why is it that important to go into that forum if you don't identify as a feminist?

At this moment, what is important is not that I need to go there, but rather the rigid exclusion based upon murky criteria.
Were it not for the wrangling about exclusionary practices, we'd be discussing something entirely else.

 

[Me Myself]

Where? Where has the focus been countering feminism? I've seen mention of rape, custody, domestic violence and other issues which affect men. Where are the mentions of countering feminism?

That was the original focus, but then some people came in and started talking about the DIR not being needed because of feminism.

Then for some reason they started to say feminism bashing had started.

 

[Revoltingest]

Unfortunately, whenever feminist issues are attempted to be discussed in the debate area, thread after thread has been hijacked by bozo's making comments on how sexy such-and-such is.

This stuff happens on both sides. The solution is to shut it down when it happens.
I don't care for feminists who bash men based on age & race, but it happens.
It seems that the rules are not followed as closely as we'd like.
Each side would benefit from policing its own more.

 

[Revoltingest]

**Or, you can start a thread in the "same faith debates" forum, labelling it "gender egalitarians only," or such.

Feminists could've done the same.
Anyway, I do start threads with conditions imposed regularly.
Sometimes, other people even post in them!

 

[freethinker44]

How about this...

What the sam heck does feminism have to do with masculism? I've said repeatedly that I would understand masculism fighting what they see to be matriarchal elements, but I have rarely seen anyone advocating for an exclusive masculist forum argue for that. Instead, the focus has been countering feminism.

What if feminism is seen as a matriarchal element?

 

[crossfire]

What if feminism is seen as a matriarchal element?

Can you provide a specific example?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Unfortunately, whenever feminist issues are attempted to be discussed in the debate area, thread after thread has been hijacked by bozo's making comments on how sexy such-and-such is. This tactic makes it rather difficult for anyone, feminist or non-feminist, to hold anything resembling a decent conversation, although you are free to try to start one. Maybe you can start such a thread in the humanism DIR, where there is some moderation, but it is not an exclusive forum. (As long as the humanists don't mind.)
<edit to add>

**Or, you can start a thread in the "same faith debates" forum, labelling it "gender egalitarians only," or such.

Oh yeah, baby. Post some more sexy responses like this.

Perfect.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Would it be against the rules for the masculism DIR to discuss how radical feminism is harming the male psyche?

But what about those of us who disagree with the name "feminism", even though we may still support its causes? It has already been made crystal clear we are not welcome in the feminism DIR, so where do we post?

Well, it's not nitpicky if you're chucked out of the forum is it? The fact is that feminist movements have highjacked the name feminism to stand for things a lot of people would find offensive, to even question this is not allowed in the feminist DIR. Am I right or am I right?

There are some groups within feminism that have gone a bit... too far. In my country one famous feminist suggested a "male tax", to take one example. But they arent a representation of feminism as a whole, or as a concept. Feminism is about freeing woman from the patriarchal structure of society (which does exist, at least in my country) and to fight for their rights.

Exactly! There's a campaign in Britain to free women from prisons, can you believe the audacity they have? And they call themselves feminists, all they are doing is smearing what used it to be good label to wear. Unfortunately, being a feminist in Britain means supporting these policies, that's why I never tell people I'm a feminist in real life, the first thing they think of would be the dominant extreme groups rather than the more quiet mainstream.

Funny you should mention a test to be considered for entrance to the Feminism DIR
Feminist Perspectives Scale

That was the original focus, but then some people came in and started talking about the DIR not being needed because of feminism.....

*looks innocent* Oh goodness! Why are people saying such horrible mean things? We aren't bashing feminism. We're just not liking it very much and we want a place where we can not like it a lot in peace.[/sarcasm]

 

[MysticSang'ha]

What if feminism is seen as a matriarchal element?

What if Judaism is seen as a false religion by Christians?

RF doesn't allow Christians to use their DIR for the purpose of criticizing Judaism.

If you see feminism as having a matriarchal element, by all means put it in the open debates. But look at it this way....would you like to see the Feminist Only forum be overtaken by people who see misogyny in Masculism and want to bellyache about it?

 

[Riverwolf]

But using what definition of equality? Many feminists have favored discrimination for women & against men under affirmative action, yet they didn't have their feminist credibility challenged. Do you call this government imposed gender discrimination "equality"?

Perhaps they weren't challenged because of misunderstanding.

This analogy does not apply or address my post.

Explain.

No one denies this, so it's a moot point.

I don't understand.

Of course, women will see feminism as more about them than about men. But the battlefield is larger than just those issues. Men die younger than women, & when I showed up for my draft physical, I didn't see any women there with draft cards. (Still, only males must register for the draft to this day.) So it's also reasonable that I too am more interested in my issues than you are.

Among my people(nerds, geeks, and gamers in particular), which is where I focus my efforts, men don't really have any issues unique to them. Women, however, suffer all kinds of abuse.

 

[crossfire]

Oh yeah, baby. Post some more sexy responses like this.

Perfect.

LOL, how would you like to be stationed in a place where all the posts like this are moved to, where you can either refute them or "out caricature" {can't come up with quite the right word} them and demonstrate that you have the largest gonads on the forum? Perhaps that is what we really need?

 

[Riverwolf]

The first feminists came up as a movement that fought for rights for women.

Feminism may have become broader than that, but originally, believing women needed more rights was enough.

Well, at that period in history, women had practically no rights except to be baby-makers.

 

[Riverwolf]

Don't encourage him. He alread sends me pix of himself dressed up as
something called a Sailor Moon. (He's actually quite fetching looking.)

Spend some time poking around the dark corners of the internet. You'll find that there's an entire movement of men who dress like this Sailor Moon.