Humanism is a much broader philosophy than feminism. It could be said that feminism is humanism being much more focused on issues of gender.
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Men's Issues/Masculism DIR
- Thread starter CaptainNobody
- Start date
Humanism is a much broader philosophy than feminism. It could be said that feminism is humanism being much more focused on issues of gender.
She is absolutely not a feminist any more than an atheist can accurately claim to be a Christian.
The reason is this: feminism seeks gender equality. Anything that would create inequality between genders (i.e., a "male tax"), is anti-feminist. Therefore, anyone who would propose such a thing cannot accurately be called a feminist.
This seems too much like the "no true feminist" fallacy. If someone self identifies as a feminist, & shares the agenda of advancing female-to-male economic & social equality, their advocating some extreme positions shouldn't disqualify them. There are a great many feminists who advocate discrimination in favor of women against men (affirmative action programs), & yet they don't have their feminism challenged. The agenda that government should step in to limit some rights of individuals in order to promote group equality is simply one flavor of feminism, which is a very large tent.
The problem is in defining "equality".....is it about equal rights & opportunity for the individual? Or is it about government creating differential rights & opportunities for equality of results for large groups? While it's draconian, sexist, & offensive, a "male tax" could serve the goal of group equalization. This is where it's clear that masculinism is not just a subset of feminism, as so many feminists claim. Moreover, if one surveys the threads in the Feminist Only forum, one doesn't see male oriented issues being addressed. Certainly, there are feminists who support for men's issues when their discussion comes up. but generally feminists focus on benefiting women.
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Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Male Tax? What on Earth...
Fair enough, but I genuinely didn't think they would factor in the answers to all the irrelevant questions about capitalism or racism and various other issues. I was expecting a decent feminist score but I was clearly wrong. How anyone can link racism with women's rights or capitalism with women's rights is beyond belief. Women's rights have been suppressed in many other economic systems lmao what a fail
The questions seemed irrelevant & strange to me too, but it made more sense once I saw that they gave rankings in many categories which did relate to race & economics. Too bad they left libertarians out, but most people only see a simplistic "liberal" vs "conservative" political spectrum.Fair enough, but I genuinely didn't think they would factor in the answers to all the irrelevant questions about capitalism or racism and various other issues. I was expecting a decent feminist score but I was clearly wrong. How anyone can link racism with women's rights or capitalism with women's rights is beyond belief. Women's rights have been suppressed in many other economic systems lmao what a fail
It should be called the penis tax, a flat tax for having a dick. I'd pay it if it was introduced, better than the alternative which would probably be castration or even worse, sexual reassignment surgery
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
well, it might stop inflation...It should be called the penis tax, a flat tax for having a dick. I'd pay it if it was introduced, better than the alternative which would probably be castration or even worse, sexual reassignment surgery
I don't get it
Looks like there's a hidden male tax in the UK already!! teehee
"In the last tax year men paid £92 billion in income tax whereas women paid £36.8 billion, which is 60% less."
Harriett Baldwin MP, West Worcestershire, House of Commons, February 8, 2013
There are more women in the workforce than ever before, and yet they still contribute 60% less in income tax than men.
Harriett Baldwin, MP for West Worcestershire, posed that same question to Vince Cable in Parliament yesterday:
"Normally I am in favour of lower income taxes, but in this case will the Secretary of State explain what else he is doing to help to equalise those figures and, most importantly, bring an extra £55 billion into the Exchequer?"
Factcheck: Are women paying 60% less income tax than men? | Full Fact
Not really surprising though, in the vast vast majority of families the man earns considerably more so it's got really nothing to do with equality and more about social choices.
teehee"In the last tax year men paid £92 billion in income tax whereas women paid £36.8 billion, which is 60% less."
Harriett Baldwin MP, West Worcestershire, House of Commons, February 8, 2013
There are more women in the workforce than ever before, and yet they still contribute 60% less in income tax than men.
Harriett Baldwin, MP for West Worcestershire, posed that same question to Vince Cable in Parliament yesterday:
"Normally I am in favour of lower income taxes, but in this case will the Secretary of State explain what else he is doing to help to equalise those figures and, most importantly, bring an extra £55 billion into the Exchequer?"
Factcheck: Are women paying 60% less income tax than men? | Full Fact
Not really surprising though, in the vast vast majority of families the man earns considerably more so it's got really nothing to do with equality and more about social choices.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Nevermind. My mind went in a totally different direction.I don't get it
Take another look. I started an entire thread on male-oriented issues in the Feminist Only forum.
How many times do I have to say that I support the creation of a Masculinist Only forum? If masculinists feel harassed or that they don't have a voice or a place to discuss issues pertinent to them, doesn't matter how it makes me feel, they deserve a protected place to let their hair down and simply talk about what is important to them.
I am unsure of if I identify as a masculinist, but that doesn't preclude any disrespect. On the other hand, I don't think it's too much to ask the same respect in return.
I'm a feminist. What people say when they generalize about feminism they say about me, too. I will clear up any misconceptions about feminism or about my particular flavor of feminism, but to suggest that I'm not "really" a feminist simply because I don't demand a male tax or advocate the SCUM Manifesto is disingenuous at best.
Once was enuf. Of course, I don't doubt your strength & balance on male oriented issues. But I speak of what I observe in the larger group defined by "feminist". It is unfortunate that this inadvertently reflects upon you personally, & I try to be clear that I believe you to embody a higher standard. Their focus on women's issues is greater than on men's. I surveyed the title, & you were the only one to start a thread dealing with men's issues, & even so, it was the only one. Too often, men are portrayed as the problem (eg, too many of them in office...even when women elected them).
This is unclear, since I don't think you'd be disrespectful at all.
This is the opposite of what I said. I opposed excluding some feminists from "feminism" on the basis that they held some non-egalitarian values. I see feminism as being more diverse than some do.
Parenthetical asides:
I find this very difficult to discuss, since so many of my points appear to become inverted by the feminists with whom I converse.
I don't identify as "feminist" or "masculinist" because both have too narrow a focus for me, & there are cultural aspects which make me uncomfortable. It seems rather cliquish to keep the likes of me out of those DIRs, since I hold the same values, but so be it. I'll discuss the issues elsewhere.
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Because they cannot post in the purple Sadist Only forum?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Any position that goes against the idea of gender equality automatically disqualifies someone from being feminist in my mind.
Imagine someone who calls himself a Muslim yet denies the existence of God. Would you say that person can accurately be identified as belonging in the Muslim camp?
Simply calling yourself something isn't enough to say you are that thing.
Mostly because women are generally the ones who get the blunt end of society.
After all, in my battlefield of choice in this matter, women get harassed and abused by men FAR more often than vice-versa.
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Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
What's next, a forum for collectors of late 19th century dinnerware?
This is the only interenet forum that has twice as many forums, sub-forums, and sub-sub-forums as actual members who post on a regular basis. Maybe we could just give every member their own sub-forum or two and be done with it.
This is the only interenet forum that has twice as many forums, sub-forums, and sub-sub-forums as actual members who post on a regular basis. Maybe we could just give every member their own sub-forum or two and be done with it.
You're invited to my forum tonight at 7. Bring the flame thrower. It's going to be a real shindig.
But using what definition of equality? Many feminists have favored discrimination for women & against men under affirmative action, yet they didn't have their feminist credibility challenged. Do you call this government imposed gender discrimination "equality"?
This analogy does not apply or address my post.
No one denies this, so it's a moot point.
Of course, women will see feminism as more about them than about men. But the battlefield is larger than just those issues. Men die younger than women, & when I showed up for my draft physical, I didn't see any women there with draft cards. (Still, only males must register for the draft to this day.) So it's also reasonable that I too am more interested in my issues than you are.
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