Thana
Lady
Gentile means Not Jewish.
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Messiah (pbuh) important to come(come back) to Jews and Chritians ?
- Thread starter Godobeyer
- Start date
Gentile means Not Jewish.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It seems that if one rejects the "O.T.", then they logically must reject the "N.T." since it is based on the other. For example, how could one possibly know anything about a "messiah" without accepting the concept as found in the "O.T."? If one resorts to picking-and-choosing what they wish to accept out of the "O.T.", how could they possibly tell which parts are accurate and which are not?
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
We know this is not true. Jews, Christians, and Muslims have all been picking and choosing.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Not with all.
thanks for answser to me
1- Messiah (pbuh) is will come to the jews or come for all the world ?
+ Where suppose th e thrid temple will be built in Jerusalem , and is he very necessary to let the world recognize the One GOD and Master and Creator of the universe ? btw we the Muslims 1.7 billion person recognize him as you said .
2-so ,If Jesus (pbuh) comes again with same message of trinity the Jews would not accept him .
I HOPE THIS thread would not take as hatefull speech against the jews , or the Christians with each other ,please , we are just chat in opinions , and discuss .
I have a friend know better than me about religions , He told me " the jews looks like boss to the christians , in religious issues "
as I understand here , some Christians want their religion linked to jews or jewish belief about this matter.
and some others had indpenedent Christian view .
So , If Jesus (pbuh) would come again especially to the Jews , for my simple opinion that will be unrespectful for his followers and believers the Christains , and his believers the Muslims .
it's not make Jesus (pbuh) looks as he insist to convince them (the jews) to believe in him?
I have a friend know better than me about religions , He told me " the jews looks like boss to the christians , in religious issues "
as I understand here , some Christians want their religion linked to jews or jewish belief about this matter.
and some others had indpenedent Christian view .
So , If Jesus (pbuh) would come again especially to the Jews , for my simple opinion that will be unrespectful for his followers and believers the Christains , and his believers the Muslims .
it's not make Jesus (pbuh) looks as he insist to convince them (the jews) to believe in him?
jewscout
Religious Zionist
the Moshiach will come as a redemption for the Jews, to be their King
As to the Temple, it will be built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem
The great 12th century scholar Maimonides, or the Rambam, said that religions like Christianity and Islam helped prepare the world for Moshiach's coming by bringing the concept of the One G-d to the world, however I don't know that those faiths will remain the same in the era of the Moshiach, they may change.
Honestly we don't really know for certain what will be in the era of Moshiach, we can only hypothesize
Oh, and is the Dome of the Rock going to just magically disappear or move?
jewscout
Religious Zionist
yes...
InChrist
Free4ever
I do understand what you are saying because I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church and I fully understand the teaching that "the Church is spiritual Israel" and I disagree with this teaching and believe it is completely contrary to the teaching of the Bible.
I have already told you that I do not believe in dual covenant theology and I think it is a heretical doctrine. I am not addressing how one becomes saved or enters God's eternal kingdom. I agree with you that in the church or Body of Christ there is no Jew of Gentile and all are one in Christ. Nevertheless, to say that the church has replaced Israel or that all the prophecies God gave specifically in reference to the nation of Israel are now only for the church in a spiritual sense makes mockery of the scriptures and God's Word. If God is finished with Israel (the nation) and His promises about their restoration to the land are not applicable any longer, how do you account for the fact the Israel is now a nation again in their own homeland after being dispersed for nearly 2000 years? No such phenomenon has ever occurred with any other people in the history of the world!
"Another idea gaining popularity among Christians today is the false teaching that the church has replaced Israel. This Roman Catholic doctrine, which is a form of anti-Semitism, is also promoted by evangelicals. It declares that Israel has been cut off because of her sins, and the prophecies concerning her restoration are no longer valid. If that were so, then the “everlasting covenant” promised to Israel eleven times in the Old Testament and the everlasting possession of the land promised twice were not everlasting at all, and God has lied. Again, Satan has won, and this world belongs to him."
A Rising Tide of Jew Hatred Today
http://http://www.thebereancall.org/content/november-2013-classic-2
I find it ironic that you accuse me of making verses say what they do not mean when I am accepting them for what they are saying in a straightforward manner, yet you are interpreting them symbolically and spiritualizing their plain meaning and Israel away.
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what ,next ?
were not three Temples destructed before , is there a garanty that your next Temple would not destructed also ?
The concept of one God is exist since Adam (pbuh) , how you bringing something is already exist .
if it's necessary for God to make ALL the human being believe in Him , why He wait until to era of Messiah (pbuh) ?
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jewscout
Religious Zionist
he'll rule as king of Israel, and then his son after him, and so on. Or he'll rule and at his death time will come to an end and the resurrection of the dead will occur. or any other variety of possible outcomes. There is little concrete about the age of Moshiach.Godobeyer said:
if it is the age of Moshiach, it will not be destroyed
it has been there but many groups did, and still do, practice idolatry in one form or another. As to causing the world to believe in One G-d, Torah teaches that such a belief will come through how the non-jews will view the way jews practice Torah and Mitzvot, and the coming of Moshiach is the ultimate fulfillment of that and His promise to Am Yisrael of redemption. it is a constant process which is still ongoing but will not be completed until that era arrives.
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so Israel regime convert from republic to kingdom .
again , what is the garanty ?
his coming causing the world to believe in One God !!! since YOU (the jews ) believe in ONE God , and we Muslims believe in one God and maybe other religions believe in one God too .
from dozens or hunderds of Messangers , only the Messiah is causing the world to believe in God ?
Excuse me, but the traditional teachings of Christianity are not "antisemitism"! If you're going to say that, then you must say that the New Testament and even Our Lord is "antisemitic" for condemning the Pharisees (the forefathers of Rabbinical Judaism) and the non-believing Jews! No. Rather, the same rules apply to Jews as apply to everyone else on the planet - to be saved, you must accept Jesus Christ and join His Church. This Christian Zionist nonsense only came about in the 19th century or so. It didn't exist before then. It came about the same time as Zionism itself came into existence.
I'm merely understanding those verses in the way they've always been understood by Christianity. There is the Abrahamic Covenant and the Mosaic Covenant. It is the Mosaic Covenant that is abolished. The Abrahamic Covenant has been extended to all those who are the spiritual children of Abraham. Jesus promised a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly kingdom which is what the non-believing Jews were wishing for then and still wishing for now. In fact, the Israelites weren't even supposed to have a monarchy in the first place, but God let them have their selfish wish (1 Samuel 8). Some say that a large number of Jews will come to faith in Christ before the end of the world and that God will allow them to have the land of Israel. They might and they might not. That's just speculation. At the Second Coming, there is not going to be a 1,000 year reign of Christ from Israel. Christ is already reigning over His Kingdom and has been since He Ascended to Heaven. When Christ comes again, it is the General Judgment and the remaking and unification of Heaven and Earth. So I'm pretty sure that God isn't going to be doing real estate deals during that time.
The nation of Israel isn't some miraculous occurrence. The British had control of it and the Zionist terrorists (Irgun) kept attacking the British and eventually the British gave in and give the land over to the Zionists. During that time, the Zionists were violating the White Papers and bringing over more and more Ashkenazi Jews to up their numbers. After they got the British to leave, then they started fighting with the Arabs and the Zionists began their ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. God had nothing to do with it. If anything, "the other guy" had more to do with it.
Scripture Catholic - Zionism1. God does not owe the Jews any land or protection.
Zionism is based on the faulty assumption that God still owes the Jews the land He promised to give to Abraham’s descendants. Scripture, however, teaches that God has already fulfilled His promises to the Jews. For example, regarding the land in question, God says through Joshua:
“Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land which he swore to give to their fathers; and having taken possession of it, they settled there” (Jos. 21:43).
God also declares through Solomon that all his promises to Israel have been fulfilled:
"Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised; not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he uttered by Moses his servant” (1 Kings 8:56).
God further says through the prophet Nehemiah that His promise to grant the land to Abraham’s descendants has been fulfilled:
“Thou art the LORD, the God who didst choose Abram and bring him forth out of Ur of the Chalde'ans and give him the name Abraham; and thou didst find his heart faithful before thee, and didst make with him the covenant to give to his descendants the land of the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Amorite, the Per'izzite, the Jeb'usite, and the Gir'ga****e; and thou hast fulfilled thy promise, for thou art righteous” (Neh. 9:7-8).
Thus, those who believe that God still owes the Jews land and protection by divine decree deny the plain meaning of Scripture and make God a liar.
In fact, the loss of Israel’s ancient holdings is a sign of God’s divine judgment against the Jews for rejecting His Son, Jesus Christ, their Messiah. God warned Israel in the Old Testament Scriptures:
“But if you turn aside from following me, you or your children, and do not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them; and the house which I have consecrated for my name I will cast out of my sight; and Israel will become a proverb and a byword among all peoples. And this house will become a heap of ruins; everyone passing by it will be astonished, and will hiss; and they will say, `Why has the LORD done thus to this land and to this house?' Then they will say, `Because they forsook the LORD their God who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshiped them and served them; therefore the LORD has brought all this evil upon them.’” (1 Kings 9:6-9).
Scripture is clear that God owes the Jews nothing more, and suggests that the Jews are suffering the ramifications of rejecting Jesus Christ. They have been “broken off” of the root of Christ “because of their unbelief” (Rom. 11:19-20). However, Paul says that the Jews can be grafted in again, “if they do not persist in their unbelief,” for God has the power to do so (Rom. 11:23).
We should also note that the Old Covenant that God entered into with the Jews has been superseded by the New Covenant of Christ (the Church calls this doctrine “supercessionism”. This happened the moment that God tore the curtain of the Jewish Temple in two (Matt. 27:51). When we speak of the “Old Covenant,” we are referring to the “Mosaic covenant,” that is, the law that God gave the Jews through Moses (see 2 Cor. 3:14). We are not referring to the Abrahamic covenant which, because it was based on grace through faith, was incorporated into the New Covenant of Christ. This is why Paul says that Abraham is the father of the children of the New Covenant (see Rom. 4:16; 9:7; Gal. 3:29; James 2:21; see also Gal. 3:9,14,16,18).
The only place where the phrase “Old Covenant” is used in the New Testament is in Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, and Paul says that “through Christ it is taken away” (see 2 Cor. 3:14). Referring to the abrogation of the Old Covenant, Paul tells the Hebrews that “a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness” (Heb. 7:18). The phrase “set aside” (from the Greek aphetesis) means to annul. Again, referring to the Old Covenant, Paul says “He abolishes the first in order to establish the second” (Heb. 10:9). The word “abolish” (from the Greek anaireo) means to abrogate or destroy. Paul uses very specific language to teach that the Old Covenant has been rendered null and void by the New Covenant of Jesus Christ (see also Heb. 8:7).
This means that the Jews are no longer in a saving covenant with God until they renounce Judaism and are baptized into Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church has affirmed this fact throughout her history (e.g., the Council of Florence; the Council of Trent; Second Vatican Council, Pius XII’s Mystici Corporis). Thus, even though the Second Vatican Council affirmed a person’s civil (but not moral) right to religious liberty, it taught that the Church must preach the gospel to the Jews, as she does to everyone else (Nostra Aetate, 23).
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We all know that magic doesn't happen so you must think it's going to be destroyed. By who?
jewscout
Religious Zionist
when I say Israel it has nothing to do with the current nation-state, rather the geographical area which has always held the name Israel within judaism
the guarantee we have is the belief that G-d will not allow it to happen, period.
and while we both believe in One G-d, Judaism and Islam do not view G-d the same, otherwise Muhammed would have been a convert to Judaism instead of forming a new religion.
jewscout
Religious Zionist
I don't know
This is not Israel !!!!
so what is Israel in geographical area suppose to be .
SInce God let it happened (Temple destructed) , so there is no guarantee ,
We believed that God was chosing Jews in period of time , but since they killed some of the prophet (that is in Torah) and everytime edit His messages (books) ,God chose other people (that is in the Torah also) .
Btw , why the jews killed some prophets , if they were accept the message of God that they want to deliver to them ?!!!
so Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was not forme new religion , it's same religion of God , intact .
really !!